Mercenary, Do or Die?

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25/01/2006, 12:42 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

BTW that lad has a dublin accent (for those who are hung up on accents...)

Well then that alone makes him Irish! :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

He's not a mercenary - he's come up through the ranks. He'd be a mercenary if he said he wanted to go and play for England now

How could he play for England? He doesn't and never has lived there. I know the FA rules are as lax as a Kings Cross brass but I'd find it hard them pulling this one off. By your benchmark he could be termed a 'mercenary' for changing his nationality for profitable gain. Remaining Nigerian will not help his career outside of Ireland in the EU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Thats not the point. The point is he didn't know he was Irish nor had any intention of becoming Irish until he was asked (because of the name Morrison) did he have any Irish blood and if he did would he like to "join" our squad. After finding out he was, and then issueing a come and get me plea to the English team, then the jamiacan team, and then finally settling on Ireland

Never heard of the Jamaica angle either. Sure they would have jumped at the chance of him if he went there before us. All we offered initially was a U21 cap.

I agree with the former Comodores' lead singer. He's being attacked for a low IQ. In football? Mind you, I find it hard to come to terms that he didn't know his grandmother was Irish. I believe she's still alive. But there you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

are people seriously happy that stan is going back down the road of investing resources in hunting players ancestors as opposed to youth development? ok, the rules are there, but its a short termist, narrow view and alienates a lot of people from the side.

No one is happy about having to 'beg' people to play for Ireland but I believe that a lot more would be 'alientated' from the side if the team started losing. This is the question posed, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelsman

It's possible for a person to feel Irish but not feel the need to go and get a second passport if there's nothing wrong with the one he has ( if all he uses a passport for is travel, rather than use it to try to prove his identity / ancestral roots )...

Well as someone with dual roots, and more than a passing affinity to Spain, I can understand someone feeling that way. I don't have Spanish citizenship, but then they only hand it out to me if I renounce any other citizenships, which in the Irish case, I'm not prepared to do. The Irish government has no problem with dual nationality and nor does many other states (e.g. British, Italian, Sweden but not Germany or Spain (Hispanophone South American countries excepted)).

As I voted for the mercenary to play, my two cents are that if he's given an Irish passport, then of course he can play for us. He hasn't and in the normal channels he has to live here two more years to apply for one. After all the sh*te about Cascarino etc., does anyone want to see the rules being bent further to accomodate someone else for the British press to beat us with?
25/01/2006, 12:43 PM
Hither green

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelsman

Besides all this, I think he has done well for us overall and has put in plenty of effort and passion.

I take the point. I�m sort of torn with Clinton Morrison because I quite like him as a player and he does always give his all for Ireland. And as 2nd gen I�m obviously in favour of the diaspora representing Ireland but there�s a big difference between a second or third generation player who feels Irish and plays for Ireland and us trying to recruit someone who perhaps doesn�t feel Irish or may not even be aware of his Irish roots.

I took my 10 year old nephew to the Italy game last year. He�s obviously 3rd gen and has an Irish but also (sadly) an england shirt. I�d love him to choose to play for Ireland but not because he can (or as second choice to england) but because he feels Irish.
25/01/2006, 12:46 PM
Hither green

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

Yeah, fair fooks to a professional footballer for playing professionally when he plays.

Yes shame they don't all do it, including some of those born and bred in Ireland.
25/01/2006, 12:52 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hither green

Yes shame they don't all do it, including some of those born and bred in Ireland.

I totally agree, and nearly put that in myself. However, that doesn't alter the fact that he shouldn't have been playing in the first place imo.
25/01/2006, 1:06 PM
Roverstillidie

Lopez, to answer some of the points, a kid living in dublin has more right to wear the green than clinton morrison in my eyes.
the jamacan angle is correct, they were after him, and remember the reggae boys thing was in full swing.
i think you hit on something inadvertantly. should we as a nation hand over passports just so people can play, while simultaniously deporting irish born kids?
25/01/2006, 1:41 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

...i think you hit on something inadvertantly. should we as a nation hand over passports just so people can play, while simultaniously deporting irish born kids?

The Irish people, for better or worse, voted for a Ius Sanguinnis law. Your views, forgive me if I'm wrong, were that you were against it. I was for it (although I had no vote). To me the place you were born is immaterial to your nationality, because if I thought (obvioulsy)that I'd be on Loyalengland.com, not here. Emeka Onwubiko has not been threatened with deportation. In fact, again correct me if I'm wrong, he'll get Irish citizenship should he desire in two years time (less no doubt if the FAI have a pow wow with the Justice Department). I think five years continual residence is not unreasonable.

And so this is the fault line here. Those that believe it's where you were born, or grow up, that determines one's nationality or what your parents (and their parents) are. Now I doubt that was foremost in the minds of people who voted for a change in the citizenship law (more like too many black people on their streets), but I think the founding fathers of the state certainly took it into account when they saw how much money was raised abroad (particuarly the US) in order to pay for both the arms and the public relations excersise in forming what is today the Republic of Ireland.

I remember in Paul Rowan's book, 'The Team That Jack Built,' a sneering official at the passport office complaining about South Africans claiming Irish citizenship to work in the EU. The person even brought up their religion (mainly Protestants :confused: ) as proof to them being racist aswell. She then rambled on about them putting nothing into the country. Written in 1994, Rowan failed to ask her the question of what would happen if everyone entitled to an Irish passport turned up in Dublin to 'put something into the country?'
25/01/2006, 2:00 PM
klein4

thats just typical of teh sneering oficialdom of the passport office....
25/01/2006, 2:56 PM
Dodge

LOL or is it the thoughts of one random person. BTW there's never been a woman in a position of power within the passport office. Maybe the author made it up...
25/01/2006, 3:20 PM
Tired&Emotional

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverstillidie

the jamacan angle is correct, they were after him, and remember the reggae boys thing was in full swing.

I heard he was going for the bobsleigh team but John Candy ("Irv") told him they only needed four.....:eek:
25/01/2006, 4:43 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

LOL or is it the thoughts of one random person. BTW there's never been a woman in a position of power within the passport office. Maybe the author made it up...

You know you've got a point. I mean I've never while following Ireland had or never heard of anyone having somebody come up to them and ask something like 'why aren't you at Wembley' . :rolleyes: As counter-arguments go, the 'author made it up' line is one of the most childish I've ever heard. Statler must be missing you on the balcony. :D

The Team That Jack Built: Chapter 13: Page 183. Marie Byrne of the consular section of the Department of Foreign Affairs [no off the record discussion here].

'Marie is being driven demented at the moment by all those looking for an Irish passport. Every time there's some more violence in South Africa, she and her colleagues groan at the thought of a fresh round of white, middle-class potential refugees ringing through with their enquiries about how to get Irish citizenship. The chicken run, they call it over there in South Africa. And they're quite brazen about it - some of them will even try to order you about. They'll tell you to your face that they've no interest in living in Ireland [Thank f*ck: There's no jobs] or even visiting Ireland. They just want a passport because it's the easiest one to get and it means they can live and work anywhere in the European Community [That's a relief!]

The only thing they're interested in concerning Ireland is will I be conscripted if Ireland goes to war? [why would they ask this if they don't intend going to Ireland? :confused: ] Nor does it seem to bother the South African that their forebears were mostly of the Unionist persuasion who would roll in their graves if they realised their names were being used to sunggle up to the Fenians.'

Any chance of a link to Clinton's own Chicken Run story with the Jamaicans? Wouldn't want to think you're making it up either.
25/01/2006, 4:49 PM
Dodge

I know that lady. She never worked in the passport office. As my gypsy loving friends would say FACT!
25/01/2006, 4:58 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I know that lady. She never worked in the passport office. As my gypsy loving friends would say FACT!

Well tell her to sue Rowan for libel then.
26/01/2006, 8:06 AM
klein4

is this the same book that quotes nell macafferty ad infinitum for the "fans" perspective? ****e journalist and ****e book.
26/01/2006, 9:26 AM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by klein4

is this the same book that quotes nell macafferty ad infinitum for the "fans" perspective? ****e journalist and ****e book.

Eight pages with some significant nuggets of crap: '...The English were getting harrassed everywhere [in Italy 1990], God Love them, with their Union Jacks. They were hounded, frightened, ashamed. We'd ostentatiously give them our Tricolours so that they could put them over their shoulders and get away from the hassle...' :rolleyes:

It's also the book that exposed the reasons why the FAI Council were eager to play in Poland every year in the seventies. Hope that's b*llocks aswell and they're really a faithfull bunch of intelligent people? :D
27/01/2006, 9:15 PM
The Legend

just my opinion... anyone who voted for "Not playing that mercenary and not qualifying for the World cup " is effectively saying they wish we had not gone to Euro 88 or Italia 90...
27/01/2006, 10:44 PM
eirebhoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legend

just my opinion... anyone who voted for "Not playing that mercenary and not qualifying for the World cup " is effectively saying they wish we had not gone to Euro 88 or Italia 90...

No they aren't. Most of us would support Ireland no matter what happens.
28/01/2006, 12:23 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Legend

just my opinion... anyone who voted for "Not playing that mercenary and not qualifying for the World cup " is effectively saying they wish we had not gone to Euro 88 or Italia 90...

NO they're saying we wish we had've had a team that were proud to be Irish. Or even a team where everyone called themselves Irish

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