Manning has been having a very good season for Southampton after a shaky start. Has to be our left full/wing back going forward.
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I'd agree in general, but beggars can't be choosers, so if we're setting out a list of who we have, they should be in there I think. They can be far enough down the list that they wouldn't feature in a squad. But age-wise they're not way over the hill (32/33) and they're still playing at a good level (Championship).Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I'd have MacNulty ahead of both at this stage, probably Scales too (though I think he's shown at Celtic and even at UCD he's not really a left-back) and maybe one of Lyons/Roughan, even though I'm loathe to go to League One. I like O'Dowda as a player but not at left-back - yet maybe he has to be considered there too. But we are where we are.
I'd go with any of those ahead of guys who haven't played a senior game at a decent level yet (I'd include Furlong in that). I think the home-grown rule means there's more young players getting on PL benches these days - it doesn't mean they're really considered ready for the first team. Gavin Kilkenny is another example.
fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Wouldn't rule Scales out of Lb/Lwb just yet. He was very good there for Rovers. Celtic played him there too early probably. Good passing range and an eye for a goal.
He was on the bench on Saturday. And for 3 of their last 5 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
He's obviously training with the first team squad. If they have a training game he'll be marking Michael Olise.
You obviously have a different definition of "on the fringes" than I do.
He's played for the 21s more often than he's made the bench for the senior team. He's on the bench because he's in the squad to cover home grown players, and they're presumably missing a couple of players so they have no-one else in their 25-man squad to cover.
I think he's no more due a call-up than Gavin Kilkenny tbh - also making the bench because his team are stuck, and also in a position where we're stuck.
Back to the training with a PL club is better than actually playing senior football argument again.
Caoimhin Kelleher being a superstar after years of grabbing the bag of balls for Allisson's warm-up and helping with Mo Salah's shooting practice. Nevermind MacNulty playing left back in the Eredivise, Adarmola gets to occasionaly mark Olise in training.
I think in fairness to Kelleher, there's a difference between a number two keeper and a being kid who's there to fill up the home-grown rules in the squad. You might actually need your back-up keeper; I think there has to be some element of comfort around them. That's not to say Kelleher is Alisson material obviously and I'm broadly in agreement with you, but I think Adaramola is a step even behind where Kelleher is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Edit - incidentally, one other option at left-back is Alex Murphy at Newcastle. He has at least played a game (well, 45 minutes) and featured a fair bit in pre-season. Down the preference list I think, but one to keep an eye on nonetheless.
smartest foot.ie posterQuote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Being as far away as Belgium is fairly fringey.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Not remotely comparable situations. If we had someone playing regularly as first choice left back for Southampton they would be making every squad, but we don't. If Kelleher was in competition with somneone playing for a mid-table side in League One he would have a hell of a lot more caps.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Nobody is saying the kid is a "superstar", but congratulations. You kicked the **** out of that straw man.
IMHO we need to try 2 new left backs this spring. McNulty is probably the best option given he has been playing left back in the Eredivisie all season (I didn't know that tbh). But after that the options avaiable to us are.
- An allegedly highly rated kid who's been training with a Premier League team and is now off to their affiliate in Belgium for some game time.
- A kid who probably prefers playing fullback who has been playing regularly as a central defender for Lincoln City in League One.
- Ram a square peg into a round hole.
There's nobody saying this is a good thing. It's a case of choosing from 3 awful options. I don't think anyone can honestly say one of them is clearly right or wrong.
We do though? Manning has started 20 of Southampton's 28 league games this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
I think we need to be careful about guys put in a squad to meet home-grown requirements. There was a similar clamour on here a couple of years back to have Conor Coventry in the squad because he made the bench at West Ham a couple of times. Adaramola makes as much sense tbh - especially when you suggest he should be called up even if he doesn't feature at Molenbeek.
That was unfortunate. I was refering to Bazunu there.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I've already said Manning is clearly the first choice at this stage, but we need to try a couple of other options as cover.
They have dozens of players in their youth system to choose from to fill those places on the bench. It's still a sign that when measured against his peers they think he is one of the better prospects they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
And we absolutely need cover for Manning. Who apart from García-MacNulty is an obviously better option?
Fair enough - I was wondering what that was about!Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
True - but it doesn't mean he's up to international level yet. As we've seen with others who've made the bench in similar circumstances in previous years.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
I think we've had a few names mentioned already, no? Lyons, Roughan, Scales, O'Dowda, Stevens, Brady (if fit, which is increasingly unlikely). They're not great options, but I think they're still better for all that. Especially if, as you said, Adaramola doesn't feature for Molenbeek.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Names mentioned but i don't see many that I feel deserve to be ahead of him. Arguably Roughan, but that comes down to how you feel about PL2 or the Juliper League vs League One.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Lyons is a right-footed right back. He's been playing at LM for Blackpool so is obviously adaptable, but doing a job in midfield in League One isn't the same thing as playing international football out of position. That we're having to consider going into League One is bad enough, but if we're having to do so it seems logical that Roughan should be ahead of him in the pecking order at LB.
Scales is a central defender for me (and a good one), and he's left footed so he could do some sort of job at LB, but he's not going to offer much in the way of a crossing threat or make too many runs overlaping the winger. That might be no bad thing in games against teams we aren't expected to beat, but to be honest my thinking is that the next manager will be forced to persist with a back 3/5, and we're really looking for a wingback rather than a pure fullback. Scales will probably play on the left of the 3 though.
O'Dowda hasn't been playing this season and hasn't done much with the chances he's had for us to suggest he he deserves much more at club level. At 28 I'd see both Roughan and Adaramola as being at similar enough level to him, but with both having a much higher potential ceiling given their age.
If Enda Stevens is fit I'd have him ahead of Manning if we were playing a qualifier in March. But the point is that we have the best part of a year to prepare for the next qualification campaign, and unfortunately he's very unlikely to still be around for that. Ditto Brady. Using either one of them will get us through the next 12 months, but at that point we'll likely find ourselves in an even worse position than we are now.
Joel Bagan is getting game time in Belgium, but in the division below where Adaramola is going, so it seems logical Adaramola should now be ahead of him in the pecking order if he gets game time (which you would assume he will given Palace's relationship with Molenbeek).
If i was in charge for the next 2 games, I'd give Manning 60 mins in both games at LWB, and assuming they are playing regularly in the Eredivisie & Juliper League, experiment with 20-30 mins each for Garcia-McNulty & Adaramola. I'm not saying either of them are world beaters, or that we would ever consider this under normal circumstances, but a year from now we'll be in desperate trouble at LB if Manning suffers an injury of any description, and we need to use these upcoming games to preapre for that eventuality. These friendlies are an opportunity to try outside the box options. We learn absolutely nothing from bringing Enda Stevens or Callum O'Dowda off the bench for another cap in a friendly vs Switzerland.
Given that the U21 fixture in March is vs San Marino, there's little to be gained for either of them from picking up another U21 cap either. Seamus Coleman will hopefully be available again and would be the captain welcoming them to the squad. If a young full back can't learn something from a week training with him they'll never make it. And once it's over they go back the their clubs with an experience behind them and with a spring in their step. They'll be elevated within their dressing room with their status as senior internationals.
They might end up a 21st century version of Joe Lapira, but surely that's the whole point of friendly games.
O'Dowda has 185 league games at Championship level, albeit mostly in midfield. Adaramola has 0 senior games at any level. Maybe you've seen a lot of him and you're a brilliant judge of a footballer, but I'm inclined to dismiss this kind of thing out of hand and I'll be right at least 99% of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
I've seen it over and over and over and over: any teenager we haven't seen must be better somehow than the established senior players just because we'd really like it to be true. Half the time the lad never even makes it at League 1 level and finishes his career with 0 senior caps.
This sort of thinking is why we almost always have the squad with the oldest average age when we do qualify for a tournament. It's the reason why Wes Hoolahan got 1 cap in his 20, and 42 in his 30s. It's the reason why Jack Grealish wasn't tied to us when he was lighting up League One for Notts County. We never never gamble on the future. Even for a couple of totally meaningless friendly games, some of the Irish public freak out at the idea of throwing a kid in and giving him an opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Nobody is saying the 3 kids we're talking about are better than O'Dowda. I'm just saying that there's a chance that they could be one day. It might even be even by the time the real football comes round.
Callum O'Dowda is a midfielder, he will be 31 years old by the time the next major tournament comes round, and since September he has played exactly as much senior football as Adaramola, except he's training with Championship players instead of Premier League players. Oh, and we already know that even on his best day he isn't very good.
Throwing in a couple of U21s for half an hour each has all the potential upside I outlined above.
Can anyone explain what is to be gained by Callum O'Dowda coming for Manning to see out a friendly against Belgium after the managers have made half a dozen changes each and the game has had the stuffing knocked out of it?
Jack Grealish was never, ever, not in a million years going to take a senior cap for us. It's been reported over and over again. We shouldn't be in the business of tricking children into comitting their international career with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
We're going to have a new manager for these upcoming friendlies. They need to be used to bed the squad in that will be used in the qualifiers. Not to take punts on random U21s who can't break into senior teams. Their time will come and they'll get in on merit if it does.
Lyons has been most successful at LWB and has played well at Championship level.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Lyons hasn't always been a regular for Blackpool in League 1 even when fit. I'd say he's miles off a call up to be honest.
He had a family bereavement lad. Was out for quite a while dealing with it. Was first choice beforehand and shone in the Championship. Either he will be first choice again or he'll get a good move. Have a read of the Blackpool forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
We don't have many players who are miles off a call up.