Rule 42 Discussion

This is the Irish Independants tally on the vote.

224 votes are required to get it through.



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Leinster
In favour: Dublin 11, Meath 11, Wexford 11, Laois 10, Offaly 10, Kildare 9, Wicklow 8, Longford 6, Kilkenny 5, Carlow 5

To decide: Louth 6 (next Monday), Westmeath 6 (next week)

Prediction: 98 for, 0 against


Ulster
In favour: Donegal 7, Cavan 7

Against: Antrim 11, Tyrone 8, Derry 7, Fermanagh 6, Monaghan 6

To decide: Down 8, Armagh 7

Prediction: 14 for, 53 against


Munster
In favour: Waterford 7, Kerry 8, Tipperary 9, Clare 10

Against: Cork 11

To decide: Limerick 11 (next week)

Prediction: 45 for, 11 against


Connacht
In favour: Galway 10, Sligo 6, Roscommon 6, Leitrim 5

Against: Mayo (six votes) initially decided against changing Rule 42 but have given their delegates the facility to decide on the day

Prediction: 27 for, 6 against


Schools/Colleges /Handball
Difficult to assess where votes will go.

Prediction: 3 for, 2 against


Past Presidents
Ten past presidents can vote. Eight, possibly nine, will vote against

Prediction: 1 for, 9 against


Mgmt Committee
The 11 members of Mgmt include the four provincial chairmen of whom three would be in favour

Prediction: 5 for, 6 against


Overseas

Prediction: 36 for, 20 against

TOTAL For 229 Against 107
* The voting strength of a county is dependent on the number of registered clubs. One delegate is appointed for every 10 clubs in the county, subject to a maximum of 10 delegates and a minimum of four. In addition, each county board is also entitled to send their central council delegate

* Some Central Council delegates may not vote the same way as their counties

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So basically, it looks set to go through. Just.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eirambler

TOTAL For 229 Against 107


So basically, it looks set to go through. Just.

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Not a lot of latitude there.

Interesting analysis on Rule 42.

It does look promising. That is a big shift in Munster with the likes of Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford. Meath is also a big change although I believe their main nutcase left the county board last year although the guy who took the jersey off Gary Rogers for playing for Drogheda is still there.

Anyone know the past president in favour? I hope they are not naive enough to think it is Quinn.

A few points to consider though

Many of the delegates will personally not approve of their mandate. They may do one of the following as per 2001

1) As per Limerick delegates folllow their conscience, ignore the mandate and vote No

2) Need to visit the toilet urgently just before the vote.

Still it does look positive.

Nice to see only 3 counties in the Republic actually oppose our national football team playing in Croke Park.

This would be aseismic shift in GAA thinking.

Interesting article in today's Indo.

If it turns out to be the case this would be completely comical. The clear implication is that many delegates won't like their mandate and will "find a way" to defeat the proposal.

If down have voted No as well it would mean all 6 countie sin Northern Ireland have voted NO and only 3 of the 26 counties in the Republic are not voting Yes.


Confusion over motions could scupper move to open Croker

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THE tide may be turning towards a relaxation of Rule 42, but confusion at Congress over a number of issues could still scupper the proponents of change.

As Kildare and Offaly swelled the ranks of counties now favourably disposed to transferring power over the use of Croke Park from Congress to Central Council on a temporary basis while Lansdowne Road is being redeveloped, questions have arisen over which motion the counties have been mandated to back.

Of the seven motions on the Congress clár relating to Croke Park, three of them - from Longford, Kerry and Cavan - call for permanent change to Rule 42.

Roscommon are seeking a three-year suspension and a review in 2008 with immediate effect, while the Clare, Sligo and Wicklow motions all specifically mention change for the duration of the re-development of Lansdowne Road.

It appears that counties which have voted in favour of change are backing one of the motions that incorporate the redevelopment of the IRFU's headquarters.

But some have already voted to back the Roscommon motion which seeks a three-year derogation.

If counties are mandated to back a particular motion like Roscommon's, does that mean that they can oppose the other Rule 42 motions if they choose?

If they are bound by that commitment, the 'yes' vote could conceivably fall between two stools.

These predicaments are known to be of concern to some of the counties which have succeeded in putting motions relating to Croke Park on the agenda and there is a suggestion now that these 'pro' counties will meet in advance of the Congress vote on Saturday week to explore the best strategy for overcoming this problem.

The other vexed question which is sure to be raised in advance of Congress or on the day is whether the Central Council delegates are committed to voting the same way as the counties they represent if a mandate is in place.

The Central Council delegates represent the views of their counties at Central Council meetings, but whether that follows on to Congress is open to interpretation.

Many Central Council delegates are of the view that they represent their counties at Central Council level, but at Congress they represent the Central Council and therefore have their own voting rights.

Congress has a history of Central Council delegates voting differently on issues to their county representatives and there would be no shortage of strong-minded men who would follow their own instincts.

A third issue that also threatens emotive debate on the day of Congress is the system of voting.

A semi secret ballot, where delegates would write down their votes which would then be verified by the relevant county chairman to ensure the mandate has been adhered to, has been suggested. However, the pro change counties are likely to push for an open show of hands for ultimate transparency.

The 'yes' votes may be piling in, but the counties favouring change will hardly sense a victory yet because of these issues.

Tyrone became the latest Ulster county on Tuesday night to approve a recommendation that Rule 42 should remain unchanged.

Down were due to discuss the issue last night, but there will be no vote among the club delegates. The County Board's executive will decide on what stance to take after taking "soundings" from the clubs during the meeting.

Derry are also due to discuss the opening of Croke Park to rugby and soccer tonight, while Armagh will debate the issue next Wednesday night when clubs will be given their say.

A firm 'no' is predicted from all three counties, meaning that seven of the nine Ulster counties will be in the 'no' camp.

Interestingly, the Cork County Board are also due to debate the issue on Tuesday night, while there is a feeling that Mayo, who originally opted against change, may bow to pressure from clubs to re-open the debate next week and look at backing one of the temporary motions.

The crucial eight New York votes are also due to be decided on tonight, while all of the British Boards are due to vote early next week.

Meanwhile, the Allianz NFL finals on April 24 will definitely go ahead in Croke Park, according to the stadium director Peter McKenna. McKenna said that two thirds of the 'blanket' covering the pitch during the reseeding process had now been removed.

He accepted that the surface would not be in absolute mint condition however. "I don't think we can expect to see it at its best until early to mid May," he said.

The GAC were due to decide on the venues for the NFL semi-finals at a meeting last night and an announcement will be made today.

Down have voted NO. The motion was defeated by 21 votes to 20.

Edit:
<from rte.ie> Seven of the Ulster counties are now in opposition to Roscommon's and Sligo's motions for change.

All 12 Leinster counties want Croke Park to be opened.

Cork are the only dissenting county in Munster, however, Limerick have yet to decide on their stance.

In Connacht, Mayo and Leitrim have also yet to vote, with the remaming counties in favour of an amendment.

Congress votes on the matter on April 16, with a two-thirds majority needed to pass a motion.

Why are all the N.Irish counties voting no? Is it because they're mainly opening it for the Republic to play there and if N.Ireland had no Winsdor Park, Croker wouldn't be open? Just a suggestion. :)

As appealing as the notion of our team running out in a stadium that befits them is-as does one of the calibre of "headquarters" -I've decided I don't want the GAA to benefit from Irelands football games.

I'm pretty certain they'll rustle up enough rednecks to oppose it any event or, as someone suggested, to nip out to the jacks at an inopportune moment.

I also think this is an opportune time to pay back the loyalty of all our UK based Irish. So lets play a campaign -or two even -out of Highbury, Anfield, Old trafford ...wherever.

I know it means a lot of pubs and B&Bs in and around Dublin lose out but how bad. Not our fault.

Having to play our home games in the UK would be a national embarassment, but might just be the lesat bad outcome..

Currently having to play our home games in a delapidated crock like Lansdowne is a national embarrassment.

The attitude of most in the GAA is a national embarrassment.

Not having the foresight to build a normal national sports stadium during the boom years, or even before, is a disgrace, and guess what, a national embarrassment.

The whole bloody thing is an embarrassment. :(

The GAA doing the right thing would only give a false impression of the whole fiasco. This issue should have been addressed years ago. The Bertie Bowl was never feasible. Eircom Park was closer to the mark IMO but my memory of the whole political nonsense has faded now.

I have to slightly agree. Although I think it is a huge shame that it has come to this, I can see nothing but trouble with rugby and football being played in croker. No doubt they'll charge ridiculous rents and as well as that we all know what a stubborn bunch the gaa can be.
Plus I think if the internationals are played abroad for a year or two, it will put pressure on the gov/fai/irfu/construction company to have the stadium completed as quick as possible. If the games are being played in croker, such pressure will not exist.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Having to play our home games in the UK would be a national embarassment, but might just be the lesat bad outcome..

Currently having to play our home games in a delapidated crock like Lansdowne is a national embarrassment.

The attitude of most in the GAA is a national embarrassment.

Not having the foresight to build a normal national sports stadium during the boom years, or even before, is a disgrace, and guess what, a national embarrassment.

The whole bloody thing is an embarrassment. :(

The GAA doing the right thing would only give a false impression of the whole fiasco. This issue should have been addressed years ago. The Bertie Bowl was never feasible. Eircom Park was closer to the mark IMO but my memory of the whole political nonsense has faded now.

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I think financially EP would have had the fai on its knees, but with the situation as it is now, they couldve being taking rents off the IRFU and the gov would prob helped them out too. After all plenty of funds were given the gaas way. The whole thing was abandoned due to the huge false promises made by Bertie Ahern.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Having to play our home games in the UK would be a national embarassment, but might just be the lesat bad outcome..

Currently having to play our home games in a delapidated crock like Lansdowne is a national embarrassment.

The attitude of most in the GAA is a national embarrassment.

Not having the foresight to build a normal national sports stadium during the boom years, or even before, is a disgrace, and guess what, a national embarrassment.

The whole bloody thing is an embarrassment. :(

The GAA doing the right thing would only give a false impression of the whole fiasco. This issue should have been addressed years ago. The Bertie Bowl was never feasible. Eircom Park was closer to the mark IMO but my memory of the whole political nonsense has faded now.

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Agree with you there...we''ll be a laughing stock, if it means playing our home games in anfield, etc..

The whole thing stinks of utter incompetence on the part of FAI/Gov :mad: . Bertie and his fcuking bowl :rolleyes:

Hope the fools at GAA vote in our favour. Who are we waiting on for crucial votes...cork :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

The attitude of most in the GAA is a national embarrassment.

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I'll have to take issue with that. Most of the GAA(more than 50%) are in favour of opening Croke Park. The obstacle that we are faced with is we need to reach >66%.

Dont tar them all with the same brush.

I won't tell the GAA want to do cos have no right but...

Idea of democracy in the GAA is laughable. AFAIK counties vote on issue & send their delegates to congress to vote on the matter. My understanding of delegates is that they are supposed to express the views of their voters (from their county) yet the GAA allow delegates vote in a secret ballot. This can mean that delegates can vote whichever what they choose in opposition to opinion of their county.

IMO the GAA have completely stuffed up. By opening Croke Park for 2 years they are basically helping rugby & football get their own stadium. The GAA could have opened Croke Park a few years ago & locked the FAI & IRFU into permanent tenancy & made 5-10m per year + maybe a once off government "grant" which would mean could upgrade their shabby regional stadiums.

So funny that the GAA see everything different as a threat when Rugby League in Australia rented out their stadiums for rugby union World Cup - perfect examples for threats to each other.

Corks continuation of opposing opening Croke Park is embarishing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Littlest Hobo

Who are we waiting on for crucial votes...cork :confused:

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We're not waiting on Cork, we already know they've voted against it.
All the information you need is somewhere on this thread.

Thats cos cork are the perfect example of the gaa 'democracy'. Frank murphy has being at the helm there for years and no sign of a change. He's not elected to the position either. The vast majority of members and people in cork want croker opened, says alot about the gaa

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blobbyblob

I'll have to take issue with that. Most of the GAA(more than 50%) are in favour of opening Croke Park. The obstacle that we are faced with is we need to reach >66%.

Dont tar them all with the same brush.

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I'm sure it is 90%+ in the GAA particularly in the Republic (looks like only 3 of 26 opposed and Mayo may still move after pressure from clubs) when you talk about ordinary members.

However it is a majority of thos ein power who oppose change. At least 9 of the 10 past presidents (still can't find out who the other potential non bigot is apart from current president Kelly), many of the delegates will personally oppose opening it up despite their mandate and an Open Vote will be needed and maybe wait for a few guys who need to visit the toilet urgently to come back.

Now I understand why the past presidents were so keen to block the vote. Being in the organisation and particularly those in the Republic could clearly see the groundswell towards progress which is there.

They will have some tricks up their sleeves. The obvious one is a meeting of the "conservative2 delegates with a mandate and to organise them to all strictly interpret their mandate - vote in favour on different motions and then vote against all the others.

As for Cork well they've been the same for years - Frank Murphy rules the roost and he makes Osama Bin Laden look like a modern moderate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gspain

As for Cork well they've been the same for years - Frank Murphy rules the roost and he makes Osama Bin Laden look like a modern moderate.

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As Limerick have yet to vote, you still live in a "glass house." Careful where you throw them stones now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peadar

We're not waiting on Cork, we already know they've voted against it.
All the information you need is somewhere on this thread.

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Ta for that ;)
Bit of a conscientious wee fellow...arn't we there peadar lad.

Anyway, Hows the brylecream holding up son ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Littlest Hobo

Anyway, Hows the brylecream holding up son ;)

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Get yourself into Covent Garden tonight and you'll see for yourself. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peadar

Get yourself into Covent Garden tonight and you'll see for yourself. ;)

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An old post i picked up from somewhere....
Mr Peadar strutting is stuff ere :rolleyes:
Forget Covent Garden lad....Soho is the only place for the likes of you ;)


Peadar
Seasoned Pro Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Reading, Berkshire, England
Posts: 4,148

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfcman
Peadar is a different case he's in UK so be weary of his tips


Oi! I'm only over here on a mission.
Teaching Landaners a thing or two about style.
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