Release Garda Killers?

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07/12/2004, 12:42 PM
Fair_play_boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

I personally don't think all the blame for this can be but on the DUP/Paisley, although it certainly suits Sinn Fein to protray it as such.

I agree. To be fair to Paisley, he is representative of a certain type of nut in Ulster. If he is to achieve a workable settlement, he has to frame it in a way that appeases the hard men and women who are behind him. There is no point in him coming to the negotiation table with a position that would alienate him from those unionists who are every bit as racist as the 1960s white South African leadership.
Thinking about Paisley and his speech last Friday (the "swallow hard" one) it would be the ultimate irony in Northern politics if the final settlement happened on his watch. Of all the figures in Ulster unionism, one would have predicted hell freezing over before fingering him as the one to do the business. It must be really difficult for David Trimble to see his auld enemy taking the peace process into the last few moves of the endgame, knowing that it could have been achieved long before now if Paisley had not been such a bollicks.
07/12/2004, 1:01 PM
Fair_play_boy

This is quite a thread in a soccer forum! Most illuminating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

SF/IRA are the masters at media spin & now they so committed to destroying the weapons they are afraid of Paisley using the pics of them as propaganda.

Dortie's point above about the peace process hanging by a thread probably explains this better than any other. From previous statements by the IRA, they protested that there has never been a precedent in history where an "undefeated army" had to surrender their weapons. Their agreement to destroy them was the compromise that followed, as there was probably less loss of face doing that. The Unionist demands for verification resulted in de Chastelain's involvement. In a province where symbolism is very strong, these were very carefully worked out moves, not to let either side have the experience of being humiliated by the other. In this context, IMO, the propaganda use of photographs of IRA weapons being destroyed is not on. As they risk failure to keep the hard liners onside, Sinn Fein are right to make this objection, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Heard yesterday that the killers only have 2 years left on sentence which makes their release even more ludicrous.

. . . or less repugnant, whichever way you look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Anyone know if latest deal will mean the IRA will stop extorsion, smuggling, kneee caping, survellience on politicians or will there be a another final final deal for that?

IMO the IRA haven't had a political purpose for amny a year now & are just a bunch of organised criminals.

Sinn Fein will probably do very well in the elections, coming out of the traps after the peace process is completed. However, if they fail to deal quickly with former IRA members' involvement in organised crime, their public support will probably fall off pretty quickly. Mind you, it took Fianna Fail nearly 80 years to address that problem within their own ranks!
07/12/2004, 1:03 PM
Colm

No way should they be released. Regardless of what anyone says I can't see how this murder is in any way shape or form connected with the Northern peace process.
They killed a Garda while robbing a post office in Limerick at a time when the IRA was supposedly on ceasefire, how can anyone justify relasing them? It's got nothing to do with the Good Friday agreement.
07/12/2004, 2:14 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by exile

dortie sinn fein have been seen as your neccesary protectors up with ye for the last 30 yrs with due reason i accept that they were needed to a certain extent.
but the issue people have down here is that sinn/fein ira are commiting criminal activitys down here and getting away with it so they can be kept in the peace proccess this is unnaceptable to the 80% of people according to the media down here.
gerry adams is always talking about lisenting to the people and he wants a democratic ireland of equals well the majority of people dont what these criminal murders realeased so why is he not lisenting to us .

I might be a republican but who said I supported Sinn Fein ?? Your actually very blind to the situation up here, so much so that its scary. The man you like to demonise.. Mr Adams is actually seen as too moderate for some people up here, so if your looking for a political end to the conflict in the North your best bet is to get behind him and his party.
07/12/2004, 2:23 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

I personally don't think all the blame for this can be but on the DUP/Paisley, although it certainly suits Sinn Fein to protray it as such.

What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway, you come across as more Unionist than someone from the Sandy Row. But then again you probably vote FG, no difference in our eyes.
07/12/2004, 2:32 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway, you come across as more Unionist than someone from the Sandy Row. But then again you probably vote FG, no difference in our eyes.

Because I don't think the whole blame can be levelled at the Unionists? From that you can deduce that I'm unionist or a FG voter? Fair enough.... :rolleyes:
07/12/2004, 2:38 PM
barryk

Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two
07/12/2004, 2:42 PM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

btw SF have 12-15% of the vote in whole island so have no right to dictate to anyone.

And the PDs have how much? And those crypto-fascists are in government FFS.

Your whole ill-informed diatribe is worthy of the Sunday Independent and there is no worse insult from me.

The lack of knowledge and, even worse, lack of interest in the people of the 6 counties is very depressing. I can only imagine how Dortie feels when his fellow countrymen couldn't give a flying one about peace in the North but can get all worked up over ONE incident on the south.

KOH
07/12/2004, 2:44 PM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryk

Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two

Jesu H Christ!!!!!!!! I wrote my last post before reading this gem. I voted for the GFA to bring peace and justice to everyone on this island. I thought that was the whole idea. I'm getting more depressed by the minute..... :(

KOH
07/12/2004, 2:50 PM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryk

Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two

As one of the "People down south" I DO want to hear of Dortie and his "ilk". I voted for the GFA to hear lots more about "the North". As far as I am concerned the more I hear about a part of my country the better. What I want to hear a lot less of is this appalling partitionist mentality and the attitude that you, and people like you, are expounding, this bullsh*t that those who live in the six counties are "them" and not "us". Exactly what country do you come from barryk?
07/12/2004, 2:52 PM
Macy

So the arguement seems to be agree with Dortie or else, WAR?

Look back on this thread, I supported the release - that didn't stop me from being accused of being a Unionist and knowing nothing, just because I don't think the Unionist are entirely to blame (as in, if the IRA had totally ceased activities there would be less ammunition for Paisley and Co to beat the peace process with).
07/12/2004, 3:05 PM
Rovers Fellow!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

So the arguement seems to be agree with Dortie or else, WAR?

Look back on this thread, I supported the release - that didn't stop me from being accused of being a Unionist and knowing nothing, just because I don't think the Unionist are entirely to blame (as in, if the IRA had totally ceased activities there would be less ammunition for Paisley and Co to beat the peace process with).

It works both ways, if youre a republican, then youre automatically accused of being a terrorist, thug and nonsense like that. And no, the unionists arent entirely to blame, I suppose everyone has little share of blame, that includes both governments, but many unionists unwillingless to share power and look on nationalist population as eqauls and the brits ignorance of it is probably biggest reason, in fact its probably the biggest reason the troubles started in first place.
07/12/2004, 3:17 PM
exile

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

I might be a republican but who said I supported Sinn Fein ?? Your actually very blind to the situation up here, so much so that its scary. The man you like to demonise.. Mr Adams is actually seen as too moderate for some people up here, so if your looking for a political end to the conflict in the North your best bet is to get behind him and his party.

dortie i dont pretend to be an expert on ulster society the main issue i have with scum fein/ira is there CRIMINAL ACTIVITYS DOWN HERE

have you actual nothing to say about scum fein / ira commiting criminal activitys down here ?
07/12/2004, 3:22 PM
Peadar

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway

Dortie, you're a much nicer chap when you're talking about football and your great bunch of supporters up there.
07/12/2004, 3:22 PM
exile

[QUOTE=Rovers Fellow!]. This decommisioning issue shouldnt even be an issue, QUOTE]

what planet are you from of course its an issue all guns should be taken out of irish politics, be it brit soilders in their watch towers, unionists paramilitarys
or the ira all these guns are weapons of destrucion
07/12/2004, 3:24 PM
Flea

There was a 90% no response on TV3 to this thread topic this morning :eek:
07/12/2004, 3:35 PM
Rovers Fellow!

You might have taken me a bit out of context here. I know it should be an issue. What I meant is, it shouldnt be the one that is holding up progress all the time. A seperate neutral body was set up to deal with decommisioning. Unfortunately Paisley and Co have decided its not good enough for them and are using the issue to delay and stop power sharing from happening. They want it done theyre way in order to humiliate republicans.

what planet are you from of course its an issue all guns should be taken out of irish politics, be it brit soilders in their watch towers, unionists paramilitarys
or the ira all these guns are weapons of destrucion[/QUOTE]
07/12/2004, 3:56 PM
Fair_play_boy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dortie

. . . What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway . . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peadar

Dortie, you're a much nicer chap when you're talking about football and your great bunch of supporters up there.

To be fair to Dortie, can anyone not from the North really say they know the situation there? What are our sources? How many of us know enough people from the Protestant and Catholic population, from different walks of life, to form anything like a good picture of life in the 6 counties?
And if we do not know the people, are we supposed to rely on the media for our information? From the few bits of first hand experience that I had of the North, the mainstream media portrayal of the issues in the North over the last 35 years was so biased it would make Noel Spillane look like an impeccable source of information. A friend working in RTE (who may have had a biased view himself, so I was cautious how I took his view) said that throughout the 70s and 80s the news room was heavily biased in favour of the unionists, and the majority were delighted with the broadcasting ban on Sinn Fein. I now believe that without knowing it, we in the South were fed a pro-partitionist line for decades, while we thought it was objective news reporting.
07/12/2004, 5:21 PM
exile

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

What the hell would you know about the politics of the North anyway, you come across as more Unionist than someone from the Sandy Row. But then again you probably vote FG, no difference in our eyes.

hmmm let me see voting for f.g a democratic party that accepts the will of the people that vote, or scum fein/ ira that murders tortures extorts money and treats the people who dont vote for them with contempt
thats a tough choice all right
07/12/2004, 5:50 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryk

Dortie
It is people like you who will ensure that a united Ireland will never happen. People down south do not want you or your ilk. They voted for the good Friday in the hope that we will hear no more from you. And by the way I know all the history...I could teach you a thing or two

:rolleyes:

You sound like you know alot alright, let me guess your the type that would have spat on the leaders of 16 then called them patriots years later.

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