Everton and Liverpool discussion

Fairy-tale ending aside, it could have easily been a case of club captain issues come-and-get-me plee at press conference on eve of biggest game of season, then gets himself stupidly sent-off as team crash out of europe.

Whatever about his ability, 6 months ago he was on the verge of leaving, but then signed a new 4 year deal, under a new manager. Now he's coming out with the same stuff again. I think it's time to bite the bullet, get shot of him, and go on a spending spree with the russian millions

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Originally Posted by noby

Whatever about his ability, 6 months ago he was on the verge of leaving, but then signed a new 4 year deal, under a new manager. Now he's coming out with the same stuff again. I think it's time to bite the bullet, get shot of him, and go on a spending spree with the russian millions

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Spot on...and I feel thats exactly what this Benitez guy will do with him.Secretly he must have been fuming by Gerrards antics, and doesn't strike me as the type of guy that will take too much sh1t from a little upstart like him.He could bring in 3 quality players on the shedload of dosh he gets from selling that tosser.

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Originally Posted by Gary

No doubting Gerrads ability, but can you really say a guy is 'world-class' when he has yet to really shine on the big stage?
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Yes you can becuase if you could not say it then by default you would be suggesting that the following players who have had their moments in big stages are better and more rewarding of the title 'world class'

Nicolas Anelka - Champions League semi Final
Steve McManaman - Champions League Final
Paul Lambert - Champions League Final
Stefan Kuntz - Euro 96 Final
Tomas Brolin - World Cup 94 quarter final (fond memories for leeds fans)
Ilie Dumitrescu - World Cup '94 (Likewise for Spurs fans
El Hadj Diouf - World Cup 2002 (exceptional in that tournament - world class my ar$e!)

you see where I'm going here.......are these players more fitting to the title of world class than Steven Gerrard, Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo, John Terry, Damien Duff etc etc..........

To judge a footballer's potential or ability on a single tournament or match is rediculous - it would be like classing the dutch teams of '74 and '78 as rubbish becuase they couldn't go the extra mile or win or paying 40 million for Gary Breen beacuse of World Cup 2002!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

I form my opinions too on what I see, and I've seen him in the flesh many times, as well as on your patronising Sky Sports jibe.

He carries that team and drives them forward Conor and if you think he's not world class then that's your opinion but believe me, you are are a huge minority.

The fact he could take his pick of any team in the world that could afford him if he becomes available say's it all really.

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Huge minority? Dont think so. He has ability no doubt but is it really something to be the driving force of that team?

"Pick of any team in the world" Havent heard any top class Spanish or Italian clubs coming for him yet.

Guy is an absolute **** to say what he said before the game though. Olympiacos were a disgrace in the second half.

KOH

Yes, but Gerrards ability to be world class only shows up every now and then, and rarely if ever against quality teams. He certainly wouldn't be in the world-class league of Roy Keane, Zinedine Zidane, Luis Figo, Denis Bergkamp, and a few others. He wouldn't lace any of their boots....

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Huge minority? Dont think so. He has ability no doubt but is it really something to be the driving force of that team?

"Pick of any team in the world" Havent heard any top class Spanish or Italian clubs coming for him yet.

Guy is an absolute **** to say what he said before the game though. Olympiacos were a disgrace in the second half.

KOH

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Can't believe I'm agreeing with you on something.....HELP!!!! :D

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you on something.....HELP!!!! :D

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You can redeem yourself by coming with your usual anti Rovers drivel again :D :D


KOH

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

You can redeem yourself by coming with your usual anti Rovers drivel again :D :D


KOH

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Nah....it's off-season. Time to give even the small-minded, rudderless, Roddy's baby a break for a few weeks.... :D :D

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Originally Posted by Conor74

I dunno where you get your majority, but is it the same majority in the world that thinks David Backham is a footballing God?

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FFS....Even Beckham is streets ahead of Gerrard as a footballer, and thats not saying a whole lot :eek:

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Nah....it's off-season. Time to give even the small-minded, rudderless, Roddy's baby a break for a few weeks.... :D :D

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Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment :D :D


KOH

NY Hoop, Much better than actually agreeing with each other, this arguing just for the sake of it thing, isn't it?? :D
How many EL players went to play for Liverpool, does anyone know. I knew a player called Paul O'Donnell from Limerick that went over about 10 years ago and actually played in one league cup game, having spent a season in the reserves. This amazes me becaiuse now he's not even 30 and can't make the Fairview Rangers junior side in the Limerick Junior Leagues...

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Anyway, saw a poll as to a 'world XI' lately - the only English player that really cuts the ice on present form seems to be Ashley Cole, although he is lucky in the sheer absence of good left backs around, Udinese's Jankulovski being the only other candidate...

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I'd still play old Bob Charles from Real Madrid on my world team ahead of Cole. I actually think Wayne Bridge is a better left full than him and should be the England left full.The Argie lad Heinze playing with United is pretty good too.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

I'll form my opinions on the basis of what I see, particularly in the latter stages of major tournaments and the Champions League.

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sorry where exactly I am getting confused with what you said here?

All the players I have mentioned have performed well in the latter stages of major tournaments and the champions league and on that basis you say you form your opinions about players - you don't consider league form according to your statement above! If you were to form your basis on what you saw from these players I mentioned then you would be calling them 'world class' for their undoubtedly brilliant performances in the big games i have mentioned and regardless of their league & cup performances. With Gerrard you are suggesting that you don't feel he's not done it on the big stage and that his league performances don't count so he is not World Class.

Sorry but when has Wayne Rooney, Christiano Ronaldo, or Damien Duff performed at a higher level than steven Gerrard in the latter stages (where you form your opinions!) of either major tournaments or the champions league. Ronaldo didn't deliver for Portugal or Utd in the latter stages of eEuro 2004 or against Porto in the CL, Rooney only managed performances against Croatia & Switzerland and as of yet unproven in the CL, Duff had one good game in the latter part of either the C.L or the World Cup and that was against Spain in '02, failed to deliver Vs. Arsenal or Monaco last year -

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

He could bring in 3 quality players on the shedload of dosh he gets from selling that tosser.

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We were talking about it here yesterday before the match after we read and heard what that little boll*x said. He should be offloaded now. Behind all the scenes of jubilation after his goal last night there will be a lot of reds asking themselves: "Is he worth hanging onto now?". Giles was spot on last night in his analysis. He would be better off just letting his work on the pitch do talking rather than his mouth. The team will be better with him in it.

This will be a different situation to the Owen case. Gerrard has 4 yrs on his contract so he will be going nowhere unless the offer is substantial. So how about this.

Duff , Parker + €6m + Gerrard.

Pie in the sky I know but it would be sweet. Regardless of whether it is a straight cash for player deal or an exchange, there will be adequate replacements for him available to buy at the end of the season.
Gerrard's comments won't have impressed Benitez and he was reknowned for having a steady ship with very few ego's at Valencia so i see no reason for him to have any dufference at Anfield.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

the only English player that really cuts the ice on present form seems to be Ashley Cole, although he is lucky in the sheer absence of good left backs around,.

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spoken like a true manc - he's only the best becuase nobody around is better than him!!!! mmmmm, so he's lucky that noone is better than him, interesting!! Also Pele was very lucky there wasn't anyone better than him around at the time and thankfully we didn't have a midfielder as good as Keane or he wouldn't have been the best either!!!! Earth to Conor, come in!

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Originally Posted by Conor74

I think we'll have to agree to differ. I just think Gerrard's record in Euro 2004, as with other major tournaments, was poor. In fact he was very poor. If you're saying Rooney or Ronaldo were equally bad, or that Duff was as bad in the World Cup, then I simply cannot agree with you.

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if we are talking about overall performances in tournaments then I agree with you but you specifically stated his performances in the LATTER stages of European Football or Tournamants was not as good as those mentioned above - none of the above delivered in the latter stages of ALL the tournaments they have been in. It's a fact that world class players don't and cannot always deliver - Duff did against Spain but didn't in the CL, Ronaldo didn't in either (still in A. Cole's pocket from euro 2004) and certainly not against Porto in the last 16, and Rooney goals against poor opposition in the group stages.

I just think if you want to apply this logic to defining world class players then it has to apply to all - Ryan Giggs for example is without doubt World Class in my opinion without having never really performed on the international stage or at a major international tournament and who is the say that if he did, he might just have an off tournament as can happen - would that mean he's not world class anymore?? I just don't get the logic.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Well, you are the person who sticks Pele in a thread about Steven Gerrard...

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my apologies and i thought it was you who brought ashley cole and Jankulovski into the conversation!!!

never learn.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

???

I was making the point that Gerrard is hardly good enough to be in the same thread as Pele.

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Yes and I was using Pele as a far-out example of how idiotic it is to suggest that someone is lucky to be the best because no-one is better than him at the moment. I thank you.

p.s agree on Giggs, definetly world class in my opinion and yes he does have a champions league medal but then again so does Steve mcManaman, Nicolas Anelka, Paul Lambert etc etc. Even Stefane Guiv'arch (apolgies for the spelling) has a world cup winners medal. Not an indication of world class talent in itself but in the case of Giggs I do agree.

Huge minority? Dont think so. He has ability no doubt but is it really something to be the driving force of that team?

"Pick of any team in the world" Havent heard any top class Spanish or Italian clubs coming for him yet.

Guy is an absolute **** to say what he said before the game though. Olympiacos were a disgrace in the second half.

KOH
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You speak of Liverpool as if they were some 2nd division also rans. They are a top 5 English team who have just qualified for the last 16 of the Champions League so yes, I think it is something to be the driving force of a team like that.

The reason you haven't heard any top Spanish or Italian teams coming in for him is because he's never officially been for sale and Liverpool, like most clubs, won't comment on transfer rumours so you'd never really know until it happens anyway.

I suspect at a price of £30m only Chelsea and Madrid (both confirmed admires btw) would be able to afford him but I'm in no doubt that the likes of Milan, Juve, Barca etc would love to have him if they could.

Put it this way, if it came to a Michael Owen situation where he had a year left on his contract and wasn't keen to sign another, I think you'd get every top club in Europe chasing him for half that price.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

I dunno where you get your majority, but is it the same majority in the world that thinks David Backham is a footballing God?

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I get my majority from the general consensus and from what I can see before my eyes.
As I've said, it's common knowledge that Chelsea and Madrid would have him in a heartbeat. Again, says it all really, they'll have more of an idea than you or I ever will.