Irish involvement in the Football League playoffs

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I hate to lower the tone of a great website, but you are nothing but a spiteful moron.

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Nobody deserves to be called a moron. I certainly don't think I would get away with calling you one if the roles were reversed.

I gave my opinion on Keogh. He made a mistake and I commented on it.

If Paul McShane made a similar mistake in a Playoff final for Hull, he would get foaming abuse but when he did play in a Playoff final, he scored a crucial goal. Darren O'Dea and Conor Sammon are other players who have received unwarranted - and at times - vitriolic abuse for little or no reason.

McShane and O'Dea aren't in the Ireland reckoning at the moment. Sammon and Keogh are; so their performances are under a microscope and are going to be appraised.

Keogh had a howler for the QPR goal and QPR's other best chance was also due to recklessness from him. Immediately, at the other end, Dunne was dummied. C'est la vie. I am not going to be put one under a microscope and ignore another.

Dunne was a colossus at the back for QPR and won every challenge. Hopefully we can squeeze another campaign out of him but I have my doubts. Hendrick was quiet. Doyle was quiet but was involved in setting up a goalscoring opportunity before he went off.

@BOTNET

As of a month ago, Harry said he'd like to give Doyle a permanent deal so unless he has changed his mind in the interim and/or Wolves act up, Doyle will go up with QPR next season.

Quite a few Irish flags in the QPR end alright. I think I saw one at the a Derby end.

I feel sorry for Keogh. He played quite well but that error will haunt him. He's a heart on sleeves type of guy and seems quite likeable.

Moscowesque should be formally introduced to Irish vocabulary.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Nobody deserves to be called a moron. I certainly don't think I would get away with calling you one if the roles were reversed.

I gave my opinion on Keogh. He made a mistake and I commented on it.

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Firstly, I apologise for calling you a moron. I got a bit wrapped up in the moment. I just knew when I logged in I'd see some sort of self satisfying comment from you. I knew you'd take some joy in a moment that most self respecting Irish football supporters would feel nothing but sympathy. I agree with your view on McShane, but I don't see how you're any different in your tone regarding Keogh.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Firstly, I apologise for calling you a moron. I got a bit wrapped up in the moment. I just knew when I logged in I'd see some sort of self satisfying comment from you. I knew you'd take some joy in a moment that most self respecting Irish football supporters would feel nothing but sympathy. I agree with your view on McShane, but I don't see how you're any different in your tone regarding Keogh.

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I accept your apology and I accept that I may have came across as smug so I am sorry for that. If my team lost a Playoff final I would probably be sensitive too. And your last sentence is fair enough.

I'm more a well wisher than a fan but you know the way it is when you get into a game.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

....and that is why Richard Keogh should not be anywhere near our starting line up.

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Ridiculous comment. One error in an outstanding season.

CD he has made loads of those type errors in his career.

Its why he is playing in the championship and still is today.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

CD he has made loads of those type errors in his career.

Its why he is playing in the championship and still is today.

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See if you can name three of them.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

See if you can name three of them.

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One error in an outstanding season is hyperbolic. He made several in the Watford game alone, four weeks ago; to the point that his own manager felt compelled to complain about it.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

One error in an outstanding season is hyperbolic. He made several in the Watford game alone, four weeks ago; to the point that his own manager felt compelled to complain about it.

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I wasn't trying to say he made one error all season, I was saying excoriating him for one mistake is ridiculous. Which it is. He's had a great season. He's made a few mistakes, which is understandable given the high-risk style of football Derby play. If Derby had been playing as limited a game as QPR today, he could easily have been Man of the Match instead of Dunne.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I wasn't trying to say he made one error all season, I was saying excoriating him for one mistake is ridiculous. Which it is. He's had a great season. He's made a few mistakes, which is understandable given the high-risk style of football Derby play. If Derby had been playing as limited a game as QPR today, he could easily have been Man of the Match instead of Dunne.

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Don't think you're giving Dunne enough credit there. It's not easy being under siege for virtually an entire game - 30 minutes with 10 men. Deserved MOTM. Keogh's had a season. Fair play. International football is a step up from the Championship though and again I haven't seen anything to suggest he's good enough to dislodge the 5 or 6 players ahead of him (which isn't even including Dunne).

TOWK - Did McClaren say something specific about Keogh (re: the Watford match) ?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Don't think you're giving Dunne enough credit there. It's not easy being under siege for virtually an entire game - 30 minutes with 10 men. Deserved MOTM. Keogh's had a season. Fair play. International football is a step up from the Championship though and again I haven't seen anything to suggest he's good enough to dislodge the 5 or 6 players ahead of him (which isn't even including Dunne).

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What am I not giving him credit for? He did very well in a team who were defending in numbers against a more ambitious team. I'm saying if the roles had been reversed we could be having the opposite conversation, but I doubt Dunne would be criticised with the same voraciousness as Keogh has been. I'm not saying Keogh should be in the first team either, it'd have him probably fifth in line too. I just wouldn't put it past him to play his way up the queue because he has the talent.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

TOWK - Did McClaren say something specific to Keogh?

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After the Watford game, he criticised his positioning for the first goal and marking for the second goal. The rest of the defence didn't get off scot free either. He said defending would need to improve for the Playoffs....

The highlights of that game are on Jeff Hendrick's thread for posterity.

Keogh must be loaded as he's just given OPR millions on a plate!

Seriously, feel sorry for the lad, that's football I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

What am I not giving him credit for? He did very well in a team who were defending in numbers against a more ambitious team. I'm saying if the roles had been reversed we could be having the opposite conversation, but I doubt Dunne would be criticised with the same voraciousness as Keogh has been. I'm not saying Keogh should be in the first team either, it'd have him probably fifth in line too. I just wouldn't put it past him to play his way up the queue because he has the talent.

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That's fair enough but you could equally say that if QPR were more ambitious and put Derby under the back foot, how would Keogh and Buxton handle it? They weren't put under any pressure until the 90th minute and look what happened.

Dunne is 34 years old and is likely retired from International football. He doesn't have anything left to prove. He has won myriad POTS awards in the PL and singlehandedly got us a vital clean sheet in Moscow. Keogh on the other hand has it all to prove. Clark and Wilson too - at Intl. level - I had my doubts about Wilson after a patchy spell but he has recovered to have a great season at CB.

Funnily enough, I've been impressed by Keogh when Derby ARE under siege. I think he's a great backs to the wall defender (at that level) especially when the ball is in the sir.

He's no better than 4th choice CB for Ireland for me, in fact probably 5th or 6th, but a good, hard working, likeable, honest defender who was unlucky to have been punished in the extreme for one error in an otherwise good performance. His teammates' faffing about immediately beforehand was worse. Keogh's was the third in a sequence of errors. The blame isn't entirely his.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

That's fair enough but you could equally say that if QPR were more ambitious and put Derby under the back foot, how would Keogh and Buxton handle it? They weren't put under any pressure until the 90th minute and look what happened.

Dunne is 34 years old and is likely retired from International football. He doesn't have anything left to prove. He has won myriad POTS awards in the PL and singlehandedly got us a vital clean sheet in Moscow. Keogh on the other hand has it all to prove. Clark and Wilson too - at Intl. level - I had my doubts about Wilson after a patchy spell but he has recovered to have a great season at CB.

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I've seen Derby this season when they have been up against it and he's handled it very well. He made a mistake today because he was caught flat-footed after his full back and made a poor error to let Hoillett (I think) in. I've seen Dunne make the same mistake dozens of times but, you're right, he has nothing to prove because a few mistakes don't define a player. I'm just saying the same logic should follow for any player, unless it's clearly a chronic flaw in his game he will never change and which he can't compensate for in other ways.

Doc, any clues on where you'll be playing next season?