Ken Bigley

Does it matter one iota whether he was English or Irish, Christian or Muslim, black or yellow. He was killed in a brutal fashion and the manner in which his fear and suffering was dangled in front of his family was barbaric. There is no cause or religion which can justify such behavior. I do not believe his death was the result of an escape attempt. His captors never intended any other fate for him then that he finally suffered. These animals have a blood lust which is insatiable. We saw similiar in this country when the Real IRA was created by murderers to enable them carry on their power driven serial killing.
God love the poor families of all the victims who have been beheaded by these lunatics.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

As for Bigley being an innocent civilian- he went to Iraq to make money out of a war that has caused death and suffering for the Iraqi people and he knew the place was dangerous. At least he had a choice.

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Yes, but you can be sure he didn't choose to die, certainly in the barbaric manner in which he did. Whatever way you dress it up, you're saying that this is his own fault, which is quite ludicrous. We all have done greedy things from time to time, but I don't consider what he did greedy. He didn't start, cause or play any hand in the war in Iraq, and there are several Irish there at the moment 'exploiting' the same avenues.
The man was brutally murdered by hypocritical savages and thats that, there is no other way of dressing it up.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Yes, but you can be sure he didn't choose to die, certainly in the barbaric manner in which he did. Whatever way you dress it up, you're saying that this is his own fault, which is quite ludicrous. We all have done greedy things from time to time, but I don't consider what he did greedy.

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He chose to put himself in harms way, for the money. To deny that is to deny the facts. The reason the money was so high was because of the risk.
Terrible that he died, terrible the way he died, but ultimately he did put himself in that situation.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

He didn't start, cause or play any hand in the war in Iraq, and there are several Irish there at the moment 'exploiting' the same avenues.

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No doubt, and they also know the risks. And if they weren't aware of the potential risks they are now. If they chose to stay out there, and god forbid anything happens to them, well I'm sorry I would struggle to have much sympathy.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

The man was brutally murdered by hypocritical savages and thats that, there is no other way of dressing it up.

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He was brutally murdered by people (rightly or wrongly) who think they are fighting for freedom. In the same way that the 'RA brutally murdered people in their fight for freedom.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Would a fellow working late in, say, Connolly Station cleaning a train, forced to remain around the city centre of Dublin late at night, 'put himself in that situation' if he got hammered while walking home? How about someone cleaning up in Abrakebabra on O'Connell Bridge on the minimum wage and not getting out of work until 3 in the morning on weekends - do they put themselves in a dangerous situation for cash?

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Are they working for many, many multiples of what they would be getting if they took a job in a "safe" part of town earlier in the day?

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Is there some suggestion that Mr. Bigley had a choice of jobs, and deliberately took the riskier one over some cushy safe number because he was getting paid vastly increased sums? Or are you just making an assumption?

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I'm basing that on the fact that his family were originally saying that he took the job out there as his "pension fund". I was in Manch when it broke and that is the statement they released to the local news the morning it happened.

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Originally Posted by Macy

In the same way that the 'RA brutally murdered people in their fight for freedom.

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As I said.....murderous, savage hypocrites....wheres the difference?

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

As I said.....murderous, savage hypocrites....wheres the difference?

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No difference, at least we agree on something on this one.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Are they working for many, many multiples of what they would be getting if they took a job in a "safe" part of town earlier in the day?

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What they are undoubtedly getting - if the people who used to clean up Dublin are now onto better things these days - is many multiples of what they would be getting back home. Hold on, that's not right, because how many times you multiply zero by you still get left with zero. If any of these - like the Chinese bloke in early 2002 - get killed in Dublin, because they know it's a racist place, but they still went there, then that's alright?

Iraq needs to be rebuilt (I for one am not agreeing it should have been levelled in the first place). It is in the interests of these w*nkers that killed Bigley to leave it in a kip.

Eanna, you have a rather blinkered view of Zionist Occupied Palestine. While I agree this state is illegal, what exactly have your Arab friends done to help their own people, apart from start a couple of wars? Roughly the same ammount of Jews have been turfed out of the Arab world since 1948 as Palestinians have in their own country. However while the ZOP government has taken these refugees in, built homes for them and given them jobs, leaders of Arab countries and their cronies have left their 'own people' to fester in their own filfth in refugee sites while they carry on lording it around the mediterranean in huge, f*ck off, ships. It's not like the Arab world is skint, is it?

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Originally Posted by Macy

He chose to put himself in harms way, for the money. To deny that is to deny the facts. The reason the money was so high was because of the risk.
Terrible that he died, terrible the way he died, but ultimately he did put himself in that situation.

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If I can have my macabre streak indulged for a moment -the nastiest thing about the way he died was the fact that the b@st@rds kept him alive for 3 weeks with his impending death hanging over him.

Beheading, while messy and undoubtedley a mutilation, is probably the most humane form of execution -or in this case murder -that there is.

Electrocution -which is still carried out in various parts of the "civilised" world can take up to 18 minutes to kill the victim/prisoner under sentence. Take out the ad breaks and that's abot the length of an episode of the simpsons.

The father of Nick Berg -the american lad killed there a few months back -said his family took it as a source of some comfort that their son hadn't had a painful death.

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Originally Posted by Conor74

There have been loads of threads about the invasion of Iraq, by and large vehemently anti-American. There are also plenty of threads (again, usually anti-American)

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Ah don't you start going on with this rubbish now...
Surely it would be much more accurate and truthful to say that threads/posts have been anti-American foreign policy/ anti-American government.
I would be highly critical of the present Government and President, so would that make me anti-Irish?

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Beheading, while messy and undoubtedley a mutilation, is probably the most humane form of execution -or in this case murder -that there is.

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Have you seen how they do this?? Its not like the head in the guillotine thing you see in old movies. Firstly they cut your throat from ear to ear, and while you're slowly dying, they proceed to hack your head off with a machete. It can last up to a half hour, and is quite gruesome..

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Beheading, while messy and undoubtedley a mutilation, is probably the most humane form of execution -or in this case murder -that there is.
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F**k me...:rolleyes:
This is almost as ridiculous as the fool on RTE radio 1 on Sunday. When it was mentioned that Saudi Arabia beheads and removes limbs from people, this idiot came out with the comment that "Ahh but they do it (beheading) so much more humanely in Saudi".
Whether your head is "hacked" off, or an elecrtric saw is used, or even if you get sedated/anesthatised beforehand, there is no choice in the answer to the question "which way would you rather have your head removed from the rest of your body".......:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Have you seen how they do this?? Its not like the head in the guillotine thing you see in old movies. Firstly they cut your throat from ear to ear, and while you're slowly dying, they proceed to hack your head off with a machete. It can last up to a half hour, and is quite gruesome..

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No Joe I've never seen it done and I daresay it's a bit more than quite gruesome -however no-one who's had their throat cut from ear to ear dies slowly -death would occur within no more than a minute unless someone helps them keep the jugular closed which they'd be unlikely to manage themselves.

I've no problem believing it might take them half an hour to separate the head from the body. It's not an easy thing to do -as Lenny Murphys loyal sons of Ulster buddies in the Shankill Butchers would tell you.

One of the contributions to their eventual capture was the fact that they used hang around the crimescene so long trying to cut their victims heads off that they left loads of forensic evidence behind connecting themselves with the crime. they never managed to decapitate a single victim as the set of butchers cleavers they were using was missing it's largest blade -the one used for going through thick bone and cartilage.

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Originally Posted by Macy

He chose to put himself in harms way, for the money. To deny that is to deny the facts. The reason the money was so high was because of the risk.
Terrible that he died, terrible the way he died, but ultimately he did put himself in that situation.

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spot on macy, very well said. of course killing him was wrong, but he put himself in danger.

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Originally Posted by lopez

Eanna, you have a rather blinkered view of Zionist Occupied Palestine. While I agree this state is illegal, what exactly have your Arab friends done to help their own people, apart from start a couple of wars? Roughly the same ammount of Jews have been turfed out of the Arab world since 1948 as Palestinians have in their own country. However while the ZOP government has taken these refugees in, built homes for them and given them jobs, leaders of Arab countries and their cronies have left their 'own people' to fester in their own filfth in refugee sites while they carry on lording it around the mediterranean in huge, f*ck off, ships. It's not like the Arab world is skint, is it?

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I wouldn't say my view is blinkered, perhaps coloured by the fact that I have Palestinian friends and some of the stories they've told me make my blood boil. You're spot on about the leaders of many Arab countries, but it all comes back to the same point- US foreign policy. The Saudi regime is one of the most brutal, oppressive and murderous in the world, but they're nice and cosy with the US so we hear nothing about it. Same goes for Pakistan and the dictatorship there.

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Originally Posted by Éanna

. The Saudi regime is one of the most brutal, oppressive and murderous in the world, but they're nice and cosy with the US so we hear nothing about it.

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Not since 9/11 they're not....

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Not since 9/11 they're not....

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not true. they're still cosy with the US. the US might have had a few harsh words to say about them, but it still has bases on Saudi.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Maybe it's someone trying to make Billy Connolly feel even worse

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Billy Connolly was wrong to have joked about ken bigley in the manner he did.
in fairness tho i dont know why people turned against him like that. he jokes about things worse than that on a regular basis. maybe not that regularly but, u know what i mean.

his timing was as bad as keane's alfie haaland 'tackle'

Why do people always bring Palestine into topics about al qaeda they are to different topics?

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Originally Posted by 1 9 2 8

Why do people always bring Palestine into topics about al qaeda they are to different topics?

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Don't worry, Eanna will show how manage to hijack these threads and turn them into a pro palestinian, anti israel and america is the cause of all the world problems thread.

BTW, the us soccer team get such nice welcomes in central america in world cup qualifying:

http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2004/09...b_ajm_8003.jpg

http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2004/09...b_ajm_3662.jpg

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Originally Posted by 1 9 2 8

Why do people always bring Palestine into topics about al qaeda they are to different topics?

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They aren't. If the US wasn't supporting the Israeli government and the various fundamentalist regimes in Arab states such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, then its unlikely they would be so unpopular and that Al Qaeda would get support. Its all based on the same issue, anyone who denies that they're related is either lying or ignorant, or has been listening to US media and government.