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Dan McDonnell says on Twitter he doesn't think Trap was "implying Kelly had turned down a call-up" which does suggest a misunderstanding of some sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
That'd be even worse tbh for Trap to be honest.
FAI have weighed in too, not happy. Reported via Twitter: "The association would prefer if team matters like the one before Faroes match...were dealt with in private."
After Birmingham and before Fulham.Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy
Only thing is everyone on here will fight tooth and nail on Kellys behalf, then he will play against Sweden, do terrible, and everyone will be saying how he is not a real Int'l player and should not even be in the squad.
Where do you get impressions like that? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
B/C it is a very reactionary board, like most fan boards are. Read back on Kellys thread if you have time after matches he has played in.
Foot.ie reactionary? I dunno. I certainly wouldn't tar "everyone" here with that brush. I think this forum is a diverse and broadly level-headed one with even our resident unionists adding to the welcome assortment of discussion.
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not.
All i meant was that Kelly's value as a player is being overstated today by people who dont like Trap. Some peeps who always slag Kelly are defending him b/c of an anti Trap agenda. Which is fine. I was just pointing that out.
Not at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Not everything needs to be so black and white. You can recognise that Kelly is a peripheral squad player, but also be of the opinion that Trap is out-of-order to treat any player in such a fashion, especially if you perceive him to have form in that department. I'm not saying that's my opnion - I think there's more light to be shed on this - but not everyone here is a posting stereotype.Quote:
All i meant was that Kelly's value as a player is being overstated today by people who dont like Trap. Some peeps who always slag Kelly are defending him b/c of an anti Trap agenda. Which is fine. I was just pointing that out.
Wait a minute. Nobody is claiming Kelly is brilliant, but he has been a solid backup for us for years. Trap shouldn't be slinging mud and airing dirty washing in public just to cover his endangered ass. Surely everyone can agree on that, whether you're pro or anti Trap. Total lack of professionalism.
Opinion now:
He is a lame duck and a change of management would give us a positive reaction that might just get us a playoff.
[QUOTE=OwlsFan;1661177campaigns and a quarter so far unbeaten away from home with a team made up primarily of journeymen Premiership and ionship players. Blasted lame duck manager!
.[/QUOTE]
Youre being selective there.
We also havent beaten a top 3 seed at home either, which is usually the backbone and measure of a decent campaign. Sure, we qualified once, largely by being drawn against Estonia IMO. Record home defeat, stuffed in Poland etc. ...
Lets meet halfway: His record is/was OK, but he's out of order here.
Tonight's FAI statement sounds like another attempt to make Trap jump. Surely that sort of thing is the definition of "lame duck".
The Trap needs to nip this in the bud & call Kelly to apologise or explain it's a big misunderstanding.
Not rocket science.
2 bad results next month & he's a goner anyway. Fans & press both want blood so inevitable he will be sacked with the next bad result.
The most interesting aspect of Kelly's statement is what he doesn't say.
There seems to be a disconnect in that he's denying refusing a call-up for the Poland, which Trap has acknowledged he wasn't trying to imply. He says Trap's comments are "untrue" and that his commitment to the Irish cause has never been under question, yet he makes no attempt to deny refusing to board the plane to Kazakhstan. I think Trap has dealt with this poorly (as usual) but hard to have any sympathy for Kelly as he hasn't made any obvious effort to rehabilitate himself.
Certainly, it seems like we'll have a different manager this time next year. And while it's always hard to work out who's right and wrong in these cases - cos you can can only hear what's being aired in the media - it's hard to avoid the view that there do seem to be issues in the dressing room, whoever's at fault. That's twice now in recent months the FAI have come out and told the manager how to do his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by p2011
Or maybe Delaney is just lining the job up for himself?
Just playing devils advocate for a sec---do our players sometimes need thicker skin?
I think most people on here are articulate and constructive in their views but I'm starting to question the general balance amongst the masses. I'm not exactly sure where I fall on the Trap debate, I see pros and cons and would really need to know his replacement before I'm swayed too far in one direction. Obviously I won't be afforded this luxury so I'm fairly content to sit on the fence to an extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Trap's preparation in terms of watching players, communicating properly, etc clearly leaves a lot to be desired. I've no doubt in my mind that Brian Kerr would carry out this kind of work in a much more professional manner. Would Kerr have taken Staunton's horrific remains to the Euros within two campaigns and almost to the WC within one? Maybe he would have done but I doubt it. Trap obviously brings, or at least has brought, other things to the setup to counteract his shortcomings. Does this excuse him for being lazy? No. Does this mean that he couldn't have done a better job if he had cleaned up his act in relation to the job he was supposed to be doing? Of course not.
I feel we have to be careful what we wish for and although we might replace him easily in terms of professionalism and dedication, there are very few managers who contain that special aura that his track record merits. He's a much bigger deal than our players and this, for me, is a positive. We really can't fault the spirit of our fairly limited bunch during Trap's reign. This could well stem from their admiration and respect for the boss I would think.
Maybe Trap should have left after The Euros, but that was his decision to make given the nature of his contract. He decided to plough on with a fairly demoralised bunch who had reached a natural transition. The Germans coming to town and clinically proving the undoubted gulf between their players and ours was a blunt reminder that the Euros wasn't just a bad dream! Still, a solid win in the Faroes to go with the lucky win in Kazakhstan leaves us on 6 points and in a similar enough position to the start of our last qualification campaign, the notable difference being that the Swedes are unlikely to turn out as flimsy as the Slovaks.
Anyway, it is what it is at this stage and whether Trap should have gone or been sacked already is irrelevant in my view. We have two potentially group defining games coming up and a change of manager at this point would surely be counter productive in almost every sense. Who better to lead us to Stockholm than a manager who hasn't lost an away qualifier since beginning with us in 2008? If we get two positive results he has more than earned the right to see out the rest of his contract.
Kelly played six games on loan at Stoke. I don't know where the fallout with Pulis comes from though. This is what Pulis had to say at the end of that loan-spell:Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
"He did smashing whenever he came in for us," said Pulis, "but he was very unfortunate in that his chances were obviously limited.
"He's a player I would have been very interested in had there been different circumstances, but the fact is he was too much like Andy Wilkinson age-wise."
Can't see any sign of a fall-out there.
I think footballers in general just need to quit being such massive tarts. With regard to the Irish lads, you'd really pine for the days of Moran, McCarthy, Whelan, Houghton, Aldo etc. proper men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Traps day has come and gone. I hate this "we're crap so we should take what we are given" attitude. Based on his recent record then he is deserves the criticism he is getting. Tactically he is inept, refuses to adjust or be flexible. Has fallen out with numerous people. Treatment of Foley was also horrendous, but then again Foley is not brilliant so it's ok to treat him like crap. Then we question player commitment? If you are treated badly you react in kind.
I see so many excuses for Trapattoni's behaviour, great record, he got us to the Euros even though we are crap so all hail St Giovanni! In Modern football you have to be adaptable to change open minded, flexible. Even Alex Ferguson alters tactics from time to time, not Trap though cause we're Ireland, we're sh!t and all we can do is punt it 100 yards, and some fans say yeah he's spot on!
Lets see who else he falls out with between now and the end of his reign and how they are to blame.
DeLorean, I respect your well thought out post but I think that the fence that some sit on is really the dividing line between those to whom success is defined purely on the w/l columns and successful qualifications. On the other side are those to whom results still matter but who also place a higher value on other tangibles like (balancing results with) style with succession planning with managerial style and so on...
It's all subjective though. I'm in the latter camp obviously and have been for most of his tenure but I get why others focus on results as, essentially, the be all and end all. It's hard to argue with it.
Now, while I appreciate the alternate view, it's not going to stop me expressing my own! :)
I think that is a good post from both Delorean and Stu.
I guess what i was trying to say before and didnt do a good job of it, I mean the squad won 2-0. Was it like watchign Barca? No, but when is that ever the case? There was a lot of flogging. The URL would have blown up if we had somehow lost to Poland, I guess.
Im too lazy to go on wiki or whatever but i would like to see the records of each tenure: Mick, Kerr, Stan, Trap.