The "Bailout" That Is In Actual Fact A High-Interest Loan, Not Free Money.

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Originally Posted by awec

Computer Science, so the IT industry. Graduate this spring/summer. :)

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you should start applying now and getting registered with IT specialist agencies. To you I suppose it will seem like ages but fail to prepare, prepare to fail.
I know in the last 6 wks google announced they'd be looking for an extra 200 people over the next 2 yrs. Get your Cv into them now. They might be able to help and you will be getting ahead of your class mates.
Computer Sciences and IT I don't know how strong or weak it is but would it be possible for you to get a few nicksers like maintaining websites etc. or it might be worth looking into prolonging your education
I was unemployed earlier this year and was very lucky to find a position in 4 weeks but it is tough work and demoralising and I don't envy anyone who is unemployed.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

If you think the British media are being harsh then check out the German papers!

What do you expect though? Imagine if your next door neighbour had been throwing his cash around, buying fancy cars, building an extension + swimming pool, gloating about how good he had it and now all of a sudden you've got to dig into your pockets to help this chump out because he hasn't got a pot to **** in?

Where did all the money go when Ireland was booming?

Heads should roll. The people should be on the streets kicking off.

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The Germans might well get angry, but they were moronic enough to buy 60% odd of our banks bonds. Not so clever now....

Also, the penny hasn't dropped yet amongst the academic heroes of our airwaves that the reason the Brits and Germans are clamouring for a bailout is that their banks are so up to their balls in Irish sov and bank debt, we'll still go down in flames, but we'll bring their banks with us.

That's realpolitik....

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

The EU/EEC has been very good for Ireland the last 30/40 but if the deal they are offered is a very painful pill to swallow then they should look at alternatives. Do Irish citizens want every decision on fiscal and monetary matters to be now in the hands of the EU?

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Do we want it? We already have it.

Despite their denials, it's only a question of when they will take the package offered. If it's to help to fund the banks, then it may not be too bad, but if it's to fund the economy in general, Cowen should promptly go to the bill-signer in the Park, and help her sign off this Dail term once and for all, as he and his government will have lost all authority to rule the country.

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Originally Posted by mypost

We can't, and won't leave the Euro. Once you're in these agreements, you stay in. It's not an a la carte job.

Having our own currency means it becomes vulnerable to 'runs' by investors and speculators. We have some shelter from that within the Euro, and more countries are signing up to it each year. Without the Euro, we'd be where Iceland was in 2008. Hung, drawn, and quartered.

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Read this about Iceland. Their independent currency helped to buffer the blow and bring them out of recession. The Euro makes no economic sense whatsoever, it was conceived by politicians for political reasons.

The Telegraph isn't exactly known for being pro anything European though...

But in fairness it's an argument that has been made on and off for the last few years by others. There is sense for the Euro in good times but now it's a crock.

Now the question is when the hell are these clowns going to f|_|ck right off?

They're not. Bend over.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Anybody see Newsnight tonight? I was stunned by the growing anti-Irish sentiment that has been building all day. Even when broadcasting outside the Queens gaff they were getting digs in on UTV, BBC etc. When the BBC journo shouted out after Lenihan "When will you end this chaos?" it looked like a cringeworthy paper thin imitation of Michael Moore. At least Michael Moore was being held back, Lenihan gave interviews to BBC, ITV, RTE etc just 3 metres away, yet the Newsnight crew wanted to make it a nasty slap at the man. The Chancellor claimed the UK need a strong Ireland for exports, that it's important to keep us alive, BBC are looking to stir the siht.

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The only the thing wrong with Newsnight was the part with Dick Roche on it. Total embarrassment. Just what respect do you think Lenihan deserves, after the situation he's landed us and the eurozone in?

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

any views on this article?

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It's by Marc "soft landing" Coleman. Ignore it.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

They're not. Bend over.

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Back to the pile.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1118/economy1.html
Am I missing something here?

Did he not just spend the last 4 days saying that it wasn't a fait acompli?

Top Story on the BBC now.

"I certainly don't feel a sense of shame about fighting hard for this country for the last 2 years to ensure it's financial survival... because I know what the right decisions are for this country"
Go now you treacherous shower of *****.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11793025

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Anybody see Newsnight tonight? I was stunned by the growing anti-Irish sentiment that has been building all day. Even when broadcasting outside the Queens gaff they were getting digs in on UTV, BBC etc. When the BBC journo shouted out after Lenihan "When will you end this chaos?" it looked like a cringeworthy paper thin imitation of Michael Moore. At least Michael Moore was being held back, Lenihan gave interviews to BBC, ITV, RTE etc just 3 metres away, yet the Newsnight crew wanted to make it a nasty slap at the man. The Chancellor claimed the UK need a strong Ireland for exports, that it's important to keep us alive, BBC are looking to stir the siht.

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It's bit rich the UK criticising Ireland, the difference between England and Ireland is that England prints it's own money, if you still had your own currency you could simply print 90 billion punt, and simply leave a "IOU 90 billion punt" in the cash box - simples!!

That's fine untill the inflation hits you a few years down the line, destroying savings and pensions and putting prices through the roof.

Nobody really knows the true state of the UK's finances, the officail figures are bad, I wonder what the real ones are like.

I wonder if they got the printing presses off Robert Mugabee!!

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

I didn't think it could get any worse for Ireland but it has.............

George Osborne is offering help.

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A bit of an about turn for him:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...icle733821.ece

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Originally Posted by boovidge

Read this about Iceland. Their independent currency helped to buffer the blow and bring them out of recession. The Euro makes no economic sense whatsoever, it was conceived by politicians for political reasons.

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Unfortunately for Ireland, the major decisions on what to do after Sept 2008 were made by a hapless Government who followed the most hazardous path, turning massive private bondholder debt into sovereign debt, under the umbrella of what they call the national interest.

The independent currency was just one factor in Iceland. The most important factor was dealing methodically and firmly with bondholder claimants and the angry public protest which brought down the government, paved the way for some serious work.
A central moral force in the shape of the formidable Eva Joly, was imported and appointed by the new government to head a fraud investigation. She did not hesitate to publicly tear strips out of any remnants of the old guard.
She had no political agenda.
When the banks collapsed one after the other in sept 2008, the deposits were guaranteed, the banks never lost a heartbeat and opened the next day under a new name. The deposits were transferred from the old bank to the new bank. The bad stuff was all left parked at the old bank and before a lawyer or creditor could book a flight, the old banks were in receivership subject to Icelandic laws. An ordinary citizen doing regular business at the bank would not have noticed the slightest difference between one day and the next.
The claimants (bondholders/investment funds) to the nationalised bank, Landsbanki, were not well pleased and wanted to be treated equally with the depositor claims. But under Iceland law, the depositors are a priority claimant. That case is currently going through the courts.

On another failed bank, after some of the dust settled, the government valued the assets and made an offer to the foreign creditors, either take a one time discounted financial pay-off or take control of the bank and pay back to the Iceland state the value of what the State had expended to secure deposits. The creditors chose to take control of the bank and reimburse the State.
The majority of the private property mortgages were issued and still managed by a State owned finance company. The largest bank is nationalised, the 2 other main banks are functioning, afaiaa, under control of the creditors.
The CB reserves are decent, the trade balance is good - in fact has not been better. There is a moratorium on paying out on Government Bonds called Glacial bonds, currency restrictions are in place so that foreign cash reserves are not depleted. Exporters are mandated by law to bank, earned foreign currency, in Iceland.
And all this crisis management has the IMF purring contentedly. Although the IMF have been pressing to have currency restrictions lifted, it is the Iceland Central Bank which decides and they keep postponing the lifting of currency restrictions.

Well we can but hope that the left wing camps of FG and Labour call the IMF back in January and say here's the deal.
I think even if they fail to satisfy the IMF then they at least attempted and that could look well in the electorates eyes that these guys are the real deal.
Essentially all we gained in the last 2 years are mountains of debt and NAMA.

Enda Kenny has been remarkable in the last 2 days in that he has said the bear minimum and let the heavy hitters like Jimmy, Dickie and Mickey lay it all down. Gilmore has been hapless trying to show off his statesman credentials.

I don't think we should write off the State just yet.

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Originally Posted by boovidge

Read this about Iceland. Their independent currency helped to buffer the blow and bring them out of recession. The Euro makes no economic sense whatsoever, it was conceived by politicians for political reasons.

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No, that's what Lisbon is for.*

Iceland's currency collapsed like a snowman in summer 2 years ago, and it's currency was victim to investors and speculators. The government fell, they called in the IMF, and applied to the EU for membership. Our currency would have suffered the same fate two years ago without the Euro.

Our currency didn't collapse, the government just ran out of cash. Statistically, we're also out of recession but practically, we haven't even hit the bottom yet, and it will be much longer before we see green shoots. That's not because of the Euro, it's down to how government handled our affairs, constantly getting their budget projections wrong, and not convincing our creditors abroad that they could get us out of it.

*Another of the Lisbon "untouchables" may soon fall, i.e. minimum wage. And corporation tax may go with it, despite the government denials. In Brussels, you don't get a free lunch, and something will have to be conceded in order to get the bailout.

I think corpoation tax could take a slight hit but I don't think it will happen. It is out performing budget and is a realistic form of income for Mr Chopra of the IMF to be re paid with. I cannot see them culling the one beast which is putting milk and now cheese on the table.

Exports from the the FDIs are up 12% year on year I believe but what the figurers don't say is employment in that sector is down 16,000 souls. A result of the move to higher value less labour intensive work I am afraid. Now, who'd have thought that would happen!

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Originally Posted by mypost

No, that's what Lisbon is for.*
Iceland's currency collapsed like a snowman in summer 2 years ago, and it's currency was victim to investors and speculators. The government fell, they called in the IMF, and applied to the EU for membership.

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A currency becomes a victim to speculators after the domestic economy becomes susceptible. An economy becomes susceptible when Banks/Gov act in a grossly irresponsible manner.
And most Iceland people do not want to join the EU. If there was a referendum held tomorrow, the application would be rejected 60/40. Maybe for short period in the bleakest times, there was a slight majority in favour of joining the EU.

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Our currency would have suffered the same fate two years ago without the Euro.

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I don't believe so. In the same situation in Sept 2008 but Ireland with the Punt, the fate would have depended on the Government's response to the crisis. The difference between Iceland and Ireland is not one letter, it is the understanding of two words, the "national interest". The Iceland Gov in Sept 2008, even with a bunch of cronies in power, acted first in the national interest to protect the State. The Irish Government acted first and last in the interests of the Irish Banks and the risk takers in the EU banks.

If we had the punt, we would have endured a major "run" at it, as in Hungary, Serbia, and Latvia. All independent currencies, and all of which had to call the IMF in, as in Iceland. That almost certainly would have taken the banks with it here too.

This argument is moot. Look where we are and ask why we are here. As of this week will own ALL of the banks.
Yet the they cling on. Election in March? **** that!

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Originally Posted by mypost

If we had the punt, we would have endured a major "run" at it, as in Hungary, Serbia, and Latvia. All independent currencies, and all of which had to call the IMF in, as in Iceland. That almost certainly would have taken the banks with it here too.

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So the argument is Mypost, a badly managed Irish euro zone economy crash is less painful than a badly managed Irish 'own currency' economy crash? I have no idea, but i'd say the common word there is 'badly managed'.
And you do realise that the IMF is also at Ireland's euro zone door? Not that I share a fear of the supposedly evil IMF, it's the size of the hole that has been dug is the issue.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/e...nd-482989.html

85 Billion bailout. State to own 99% of AIB.