Shane Ferguson

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Originally Posted by fhtb

That'd be the same basic concept that doesn't allow you to vote there? Citizenship for the RoI is a twee way of pretending it's something it's not, without reality taking a hit

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"15. 1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country."

No mention of voting rights or citizenship. So what's your point?

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Originally Posted by fhtb

The guy who insisted he had some kind of duty to select Northern Irishmen, 'especially northern nationalists'?

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Link?

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Originally Posted by fhtb

Sure he's probably using the same big book of surnames you bunch of amateur profilers gather round

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Is that an insult directed at Gather round?

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Originally Posted by fhtb

Google it,

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Can't find anything. Please provide the link.

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Originally Posted by fhtb

although I'd question what the point is in you doing so given you'd merely be doing so to justify your own wilful naivety on how the RoI operate at present.

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How do the ROI operate at present?

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Originally Posted by fhtb

Google it, although I'd question what the point is in you doing so given you'd merely be doing so to justify your own wilful naivety on how the RoI operate at present.

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Look, I haven't all day here. I googled "jonny evans" + "fai" + "republic of ireland" and drew an absolute blank in relation to what your coat-trailing. If there's a story spit it out will ya.

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Originally Posted by fhtb

That'd be the same basic concept that doesn't allow you to vote there? Citizenship for the RoI is a twee way of pretending it's something it's not, without reality taking a hit

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Clive or Andrew, whatever your name is, we already have had these discussions about nationality, citizenship, eligibility from a thousand different angles. It appears that you have missed all these, managed to avoid all learning and just about kept your knowledge level high enough to give expression to a sustained level of cluelessness.

so, the long and the short of it is
He's still eligible to be called up for the FAI, despite playing a friendly for the North, but we don't really want to kick that particular hornet's nest.

Now can we lock the thread before it goes completely off the rails

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

so, the long and the short of it is
He's still eligible to be called up for the FAI, despite playing a friendly for the North, but we don't really want to kick that particular hornet's nest.

Now can we lock the thread before it goes completely off the rails

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before?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

but we don't really want to kick that particular hornet's nest.

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if only that were true

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Originally Posted by fhtb

if only that were true

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Link?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

It's a fact that you posted 192 times on that thread, with 178 more nuggets in the one that started on 19 November last. It's a fact that the paranoid planter keywords pop up in most of them.

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Only in your own imagined narrow little world. ;)

You'll find far more use of your mates' "B" word than any "P" equivalent.

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Anyway, if I was that automatically arrogant, would I really post on a message board where many are likely to disagree with me?

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Yes, to quote yourself, "It's a good laugh to wind-up a few of your more sensitive fans". Ho hos indeed.
Especially after unfunny attempt, part 1690.

Yourself, Fenian Hater and Ealing (Not Really) Green have contributed so much to this debate, not.

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Surely you're more likely to sue? I mean, after being forced to live in this country (ie, Britain) for so many decades against your will?

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Factual inaccuracies besides, surely you should be more bothered about not being able to master the basics of literacy or arithmetic, despite an expensive education at the expense of the Brit.taxpayer? Still more fool them.

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If my replies to your ramblings bore you, ignore them and better still don't invite them in the first place?

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More pompous nonsense.
If you talk sh*t as identified by numerous posters, then people are bound to highlight its many inadequacies, if only to hopefully diminish its likelihood in the future?

'Irritating dullard' was the phrase used by one of my compatriots to describe your good self on ano. MB. Which seems pretty apt on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Steady on. I've both a brother and uncle called Wesley.

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Forgive me, Just a tongue in cheek reference to the absurdity of the profiling by name that everyone in the country does. Though I'm willing to bet that neither your uncle or brother are called Hoolahan.*

Can't agree that we would be carrying on any spat though. The spat is over. FIFA and CAS made their ruling, and there is nothing more to be said. We can call up anyone born in Ireland who hasn't played a competitive international for someone else. I know there might be a bit of wringing of hands by elements in the North, but all doubt about the legality has been removed, and as a result no one in the outside world cares any more.

Anyway, I'm saying no more about any subject that isn't Shane Ferguson on this thread. If anyone wants to pick me up on anything I've said I'll take you on in the eligibility thread!

* I am fully aware of the rank hypocrisy of those two statements back to back.

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Originally Posted by fhtb

That'd be the same basic concept that doesn't allow you to vote there? Citizenship for the RoI is a twee way of pretending it's something it's not, without reality taking a hit

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Jesus wept... Still harping on with that line, are we? You should try and keep up. It's embarrassing for yourself and your buddies that this is how far the level of debate has progressed in your little corner of the internet regarding the whole eligibility issue since about 2006 - around the time Darron Gibson first started making headlines, or whenever it was that the IFA and NI fans suddenly started to care about northern-born Irish nationals playing with the FAI - even a month after CAS have delivered their final blow to the IFA's inexplicable appeal and a full eleven years after Jim Boyce expressly acknowledged the FAI's right to call up northern-born Irish nationals.

You make a fool of yourself every time you bang on about what you do and don't think citizenship means within the parameters of your stuck-in-the-mud, narrow-minded world-view, so it's probably high time you gave it a rest once and for all. It's tiresome having to repeat all this stuff to yourself and 'EalingGreen' every time you decide to show yourselves up on here. Since when was an absolute right to vote ever a universal standard or essential element of the concept of citizenship? At its most basic, citizenship is simply the state of being a member of a particular nation. If you're in search of something of substance beyond Irish citizenship legally entitling you to officially identify yourself as Irish, it accords you the right to possess an Irish passport, along with the various rights that come by virtue of possessing such a document, and affords you the protection of the Irish state (obviously in so far as is practically possible). So long as you reside within the state, it also accords you a right to vote in all elections.

Ireland is not unique in that it doesn't accord all its citizens electoral rights extra-territorially. Certainly, some states have established broad systems by which most citizens living outside the state who satisfy certain criteria can cast a postal vote in that state's elections, but whether or not such a right exists has no bearing on their official status as citizens of whatever state is offering them such a right. In Ireland, the right to vote generally relies on both possessing Irish citizenship and a residence within the state, although, under certain circumstances and within certain types of elections, I believe that some non-citizens can also vote if they are resident in the state. I have a feeling this right is limited to local elections only, however.

In fact, to the best of my knowledge and for whatever it's worth to you and this debate, Northern Ireland, like Ireland, has no system in place either by which citizens can cast an electoral vote from a territory outside the jurisdiction. I'm open to correction on this specifically, but I believe that the remainder of the UK only introduced the postal vote from outside the state in 2001 for citizens who had resided within the UK's jurisdiction (barring NI, presumably) within the 15 years previous to their residence outside the state. However, I'm sure you wouldn't question the official status of UK citizens living outside of the UK before 2001, nor would you question the status of a UK citizen living outside the UK for a period of longer than 15 years. This also might sound a bit difficult for you to comprehend, but it is customary and entirely reasonable that a state has the right to decide who its own nationals are and what rights these citizens ought to be afforded. And seeing as the international community has absolutely no issue whatsoever with the nature of Irish nationality law - lest you forget (again), the UK government and electorate in Northern Ireland even formally and expressly accepted its extra-territorial nature over a decade ago, and overwhelmingly so, I might add - so your persistent gripe with the nature of Irish nationality law makes you look like a complete Neanderthal. Your repeated dismissal and mockery of Irish citizenship is highly ignorant and betrays your own out-moded and prejudiced views. One might even take offence if you were a character worth taking just the remotest bit seriously.

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The guy who insisted he had some kind of duty to select Northern Irishmen, 'especially northern nationalists'?

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Duty? What on earth are you talking about? I'd be stunned if you didn't just make that quote up.

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Sure he's probably using the same big book of surnames you bunch of amateur profilers gather round

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He must have mistakenly skipped to the wrong chapter then when he came across "Evans" and reached for the phone... :rolleyes:

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Google it, although I'd question what the point is in you doing so given you'd merely be doing so to justify your own wilful naivety on how the RoI operate at present.

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No, the burden of proof lies with you, so how about you Google it and produce the evidence required to back up your loose claims?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Is fhtb a moderator on owc?

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How such a guy was ever given the responsibility of moderating an online forum is one of life's great mysteries. Or maybe not, considering the content of that place specifically...

His 'moderation' is such that he makes IKP seem reasonable....
He's not the greatest believer in 'freedom of speech', which is possibly a tad ironic?

And the continued reference to Google probably refers to a fundamental lack of knowledge on a topic he loves so much. ;)

Four pages. The lad must be one hell of a prospect! ;)

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Originally Posted by fhtb

if only that were true

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You truly are delusional.

If any of you are bored enough and have nothing better to do, here is a link to a thread on OWC dealing with the topic of 'trolls', that you may find interesting to read. Remarkably, I've been singled out by many posters for ostracism and links to this thread have been provided by none other than this charming 'fhtb' chap himself (a supposedly even-handed moderator, no less), whose ill-informed ranting has some of the posters over there up in arms about the mere discussion of players who are eligible to play for Ireland. Take this quote from 'fhtb' for instance:

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Originally Posted by fhtb

for those interested, Predator likes to discuss a player's religion openly on a team 33 forum with a few of their supporters who favour a more 'ethnic' composition to their national side. I'm not sure how comfortable the rest of their support is with it - the original guy who started their equivalent eligibility thread was against the idea of poaching - but it's an ugly manifestation of what the FIFA/CAS ruling means in practice.

What we feared - that active players in our national sides become the targets of endless speculation on 'what foot they kick with' - is happening over on foot.ie. No doubt an accurate barometer of similar conversations that take place within FAI circles in general.

Shame on them.

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Interestingly, the thread was promptly closed following 'fhtb''s contribution, so I could not rebuke his post that was so deliberately laced with lies. No doubt it was an attempt to stir the OWC faithful into a frenzy and 'turn them' against me, so to speak (not that my alternate view of FIFA's statutes has gained me many allies).
So, from fairly reasonable discussion (with some harmless gags) about Shane Ferguson in response to an enquiry from the thread starter, 'fhtb', with his clarity and righteousness, has seen me 'openly' discuss a player's religion (where did I do so, fhtb?) and we're all in favour of a 'more ethnic composition' in our national side. I wasn't aware of that, so thanks for enlightening us, fhtb.

His actual gripe, that being that one might query a player's background, actually occurs most often, in my experience, on OWC (perhaps Gather round can confirm that such speculation does take place on OWC?). So, no doubt yes, this particular messageboard's speculation and profiling is obviously going to be an accurate indication of how FAI coaches select their sides; ability is secondary, apparently. We are working for the FAI in their secret bid to sectarianise football in Ireland, after all. When you sign up for foot.ie, you get a free child-catching net and manual, complete with a list of Catholic-sounding names (whatever that means).

It would be nice if fhtb actually engaged his critics on here, instead of popping up, ranting and raving about things that he does not understand (FIFA's Statutes and voting rights in Ireland, to name a couple), then disappearing, to spread his delusional viewpoint.

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team 33

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Jesus Christ.

It's good to know that we are actually in control of the FAI's scouting policy.

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Originally Posted by fhtb

The guy who insisted he had some kind of duty to select Northern Irishmen, 'especially northern nationalists'? Sure he's probably using the same big book of surnames you bunch of amateur profilers gather round

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Except the FAI can select anyone on the island, unless they have a competitive cap for another team? Are people really so dumb they don't grasp the CAS ruling??

As for your colleague, he seems to have as little understanding as your 'contribution' shows.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin79

we don't really want to kick that particular hornet's nest

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You and I don't. Others seem less worried by a sting?

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Originally Posted by Back to Walsall

Forgive me, Just a tongue in cheek reference to the absurdity of the profiling by name that everyone in the country does. Though I'm willing to bet that neither your uncle or brother are called Hoolahan

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None taken. Both brother and uncle have (different) lowland Scottish names, although I remember when a student in Dublin being asked by a guy called Bill Vaughan (lecturer in history) if I was a Catholic. Purely on account of the name.

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Can't agree that we would be carrying on any spat though. The spat is over..I know there might be a bit of wringing of hands by elements in the North, but all doubt about the legality has been removed, and as a result no one in the outside world cares any more

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Indeed, I was thinking of bad feeling from NI fans and the IFA rather than any further legal challenges. I doubt anyone outside Ireland really cares/ cared that much in the first place. Let's be honest, apart from a few British tabloid hacks no-one outside Ireland was that bothered about Henry's handball.

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Originally Posted by Sullivinho

Four pages. The lad must be one hell of a prospect!

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Ha ha.At first sight, he's little chance of a competitive cap at the moment, but Chris 'Sleeping' Brunt is so lazy you never know.

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Originally Posted by Predator

His actual gripe, that being that one might query a player's background, actually occurs most often, in my experience, on OWC (perhaps Gather round can confirm that such speculation does take place on OWC?

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People do speculate, yes. Personally, I'd prefer if we continued to pick any/ all eligible players at the appropriate level (ie if they're a 17 year old trainee even in the English Prem, the u-19s rather than full side) while arguing a deal with the FAI so that an adult cap ties a player.

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Originally Posted by Ardee Troll

you should be more bothered about not being able to master the basics of literacy or arithmetic, despite an expensive education at the expense of the Brit.taxpayer? Still more fool them

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Temper temper. I'm quite comfortable with my literacy and artihmetic thanks, and grateful for my education. Even if it doesn't match your lengthy roster of qualifications and erudition on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Let's be honest, apart from a few British tabloid hacks no-one outside Ireland was that bothered about Henry's handball.

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I don't know if this is sarcasm or not, but a Greek guy saw me wearing an Ireland top in a pub the other day and wouldn't shut up about it for hours.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Indeed, I was thinking of bad feeling from NI fans and the IFA rather than any further legal challenges. I doubt anyone outside Ireland really cares/ cared that much in the first place. Let's be honest, apart from a few British tabloid hacks no-one outside Ireland was that bothered about Henry's handball.

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While we're being honest there's no harm in mentioning that Henry's handball was headline news in the national press where I live. I'm sure the French press had something to say about it as well. Indeed I think it's fair to say that Henry's handball made headline news across Europe. But other than that you might be correct in your assertion.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

People do speculate, yes. Personally, I'd prefer if we continued to pick any/ all eligible players at the appropriate level (ie if they're a 17 year old trainee even in the English Prem, the u-19s rather than full side) while arguing a deal with the FAI so that an adult cap ties a player.

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Why would the FAI want to broker a deal with the IFA on this matter?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Let's be honest, apart from a few British tabloid hacks no-one outside Ireland was that bothered about Henry's handball.

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Presuming you're capable, read other fora postings around the time. Most were in sympathy of Ireland being cheated.
Even many French people on the night were so.

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I'm quite comfortable with my literacy and artihmetic thanks, and grateful for my education. Even if it doesn't match your lengthy roster of qualifications and erudition on the internet.

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Hmm, you can't even spell "arithmetic". Case closed.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

While we're being honest there's no harm in mentioning that Henry's handball was headline news in the national press where I live. I'm sure the French press had something to say about it as well. Indeed I think it's fair to say that Henry's handball made headline news across Europe. But other than that you might be correct in your assertion.

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Swedish referee, wasn't it?