what starting 11 should be....

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Originally Posted by brendy_éire

Nobody is 100% morally perfect, obviously. But I want those who are out representing me and my country to take the role seriously. Roy Keane has lied to get out of playing, and in my eyes, needs to apologise before being given the honour of playing for Ireland again.

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Roy does take the Irish team seriously, or do you not remember his contribution over the years?
Saipan - he fought wiht the manager and one had to go. That happens. Move on. No apology needed.
He retired due to injury/age/club commitments as per Shearer,Gary Kelly, Dean Kiely etc. He hasn't been able to play as often as he wanted to since then and regularly misses club games. Two games in a week is too much for him. So he sat out the second (meaningless) Iran game. Despite this, he misses the Irish team too much and now he wants back. Would you demand an apology of any of the above before you'd let them on to a national team? Or is Keane different?

"End of the day", the manager wants him, he wants to play and he has something to contribute. Can't we just accept this and move on?

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Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

.. youngsters look to their footballers as role-models if not demigods. Personal conduct of people in the public eye IS important, and that includes our footballers. Do I tell my youngsters that it's OK to denigrate women sexually or physically because they see their heroes do it? No. .... PP

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Denegrate women? I don't remember Roy going on a Viking style "rape, pillage and plunder" spree at any stage.
He's made mistakes. (So have I, hard though that is to believe.)
I don't think he's done anything that would really lead kids astray, apart from his calculated "tackles". Not playing for Ireland? Hardly a crime.
Get over it.

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Originally Posted by liamon

Denegrate women? I don't remember Roy going on a Viking style "rape, pillage and plunder" spree at any stage.
He's made mistakes. (So have I, hard though that is to believe.)
I don't think he's done anything that would really lead kids astray, apart from his calculated "tackles". Not playing for Ireland? Hardly a crime.
Get over it.

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Wasn't talking to you. And I wasn't referring to Keane's record either. You'll need to read the whole exchange between meself and Carnstien to appreciate the context in which that comment was set. But I wouldn't bother. It gets tiresome pretty quickly.

Like you said, Keane will be back in a green shirt soon, and that's that. I guess I'm over it. ;)

:) PP

The underlying point to all this is: Without Roy Keane we only managed to beat Saudia Arabia in the World Cup, draw a couple others and lose 2 important matches at the beginning of the Euro qualifiers to Russia and Switzerland, not to mention draw away to Alabania and get a last minute winner against them at home.

With Roy Keane we were unbeaten in the World Cup Qualifiers. Anyone who saw our matches at home to Portugal or Holland will realise his immense and irreplacable contribution to our team. We are more successful with him than without him such is the calibre of a player he is.

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Originally Posted by scouser

The underlying point to all this is: Without Roy Keane we only managed to beat Saudia Arabia in the World Cup, draw a couple others and lose 2 important matches at the beginning of the Euro qualifiers to Russia and Switzerland, not to mention draw away to Alabania and get a last minute winner against them at home.

With Roy Keane we were unbeaten in the World Cup Qualifiers. Anyone who saw our matches at home to Portugal or Holland will realise his immense and irreplacable contribution to our team. We are more successful with him than without him such is the calibre of a player he is.

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Great player, great performances but he does not work miracles. See Ireland's non particpation in Euro 96, WC 98, Euro 2000 for proof of that.

True, but even the best of players can't carry teams all the time - sometimes others have to step up to the plate, they didn't, thats why there's no Portugal for us this summer.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

"commitment and pride when wearing the green jersey" - that pretty much sums up Roy Keane, so good to see you will be supporting him.

I disagree that success is not important, in my opinion it is everything. As was already pointed out, EVERY team will have players who are not morally perfect, but at the end of the day we are there to support the team and we should all want them to do as well as they can.

If that means that some of the players are *******, well so be it, most people are *******s anyway. If Damien Duff was the biggest arse-hole on the face of the planted, I would still want him in my team, because when it comes to football he is the best of the best , it shouldn't matter to a fan if he goes home and beats the **** out of his wife every night, what matters to a fan should be what he does on the pitch.

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I disagree completely. Winning should be the your primary goal when ever you take part in any competition but if you fail to do so, then achieving your best is then important. Being morally imperfect shouldn't imply that you allow a player on your team who commits domestic violence. Thats just wrong.

I agree with you that we should want Ireland to do as well as they can, and Roy Keane is instrumental to that, but the rest is just complete tripe.

The arguements in this thread are beginning to get a bit ridiculous now :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by scouser

I disagree completely. Winning should be the your primary goal when ever you take part in any competition but if you fail to do so, then achieving your best is then important. Being morally imperfect shouldn't imply that you allow a player on your team who commits domestic violence. Thats just wrong.

I agree with you that we should want Ireland to do as well as they can, and Roy Keane is instrumental to that, but the rest is just complete tripe.

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Obvously I was taking that as an extreme example there Bambi. From a personal point of view the thought of somone like that playing on the Irish team is disgusting and such an individual belongs in jail, however, from a footballing point of view it should make no difference whatsoever.

What I was basically trying to get accross to Plastic Paddy (and obviously failed miserably) was that your personal feelings over a player should not influence your opinion on whether they should be in the team or not. What is important is their footballing ability and contribution to the overall success of the team. Obviously I am not condoning breaking the law or anything like that.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

Obvously I was taking that as an extreme example there Bambi. From a personal point of view the thought of somone like that playing on the Irish team is disgusting and such an individual belongs in jail, however, from a footballing point of view it should make no difference whatsoever.

What I was basically trying to get accross to Plastic Paddy (and obviously failed miserably) was that your personal feelings over a player should not influence your opinion on whether they should be in the team or not. What is important is their footballing ability and contribution to the overall success of the team. Obviously I am not condoning breaking the law or anything like that.

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From a footballing point of view it sometimes is important to take note of what players do when they're not on the pitch. Take before the Holland away game in the WC qualifiers when they were eating sandwiches instead of proper food. Take Saipan when they were drinking and partying with the media for the good part of nearly 2 days, just 2 weeks before the competition began. Of course we should not intrude on their personal lives, that is a must, but things like diet and keeping out of trouble are very important to events on the field. I understand your point to Plastic Paddy and am glad to see that you recognise your ill choice of an example.

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Originally Posted by carnstien

What I was basically trying to get accross to Plastic Paddy (and obviously failed miserably) was that your personal feelings over a player should not influence your opinion on whether they should be in the team or not. What is important is their footballing ability and contribution to the overall success of the team. Obviously I am not condoning breaking the law or anything like that.

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Ferfuxsake C, if only you'd have come out and said this at the start, we could have avoided all this slanging... :rolleyes: ;) For what it's worth, I totally agree with your sentiment as you express it above. Hard to believe, I know, but I do...

:) PP

Given

Cuningham O'Brien
Carr O'Shea

Miller Keane Duff

Reid

Keane Morrison

Is it not possible that having Roy Keane returning will damage team morale, which has to be fairly high at this point after a win and a draw against two of the highest-rated international sides in the world?