Cork City FORAS will be no more !

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09/06/2010, 2:29 PM
culloty82

Don't know if there's a difference between Italian and English law, but when Fiorentina went bust, called themselves Florentia Viola and eventually bought the name back, they were always seen as the continuation of the old club. By contrast, when Wimbledon became MK Dons, AFC tried to win back the honours list, which was fair enough given that only they were called Wimbledon, but there was a dispute and the titles ended up as the property of Merton Council, the local council around the Wimbledon area.
09/06/2010, 3:14 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They've gotten relegated and don't look like coming up this year. That's a decent start, I think. Are they banned from playing in Europe for a few years?

Derry might be, but Cork are technically a new club. I don't think they could be denied European football if they were to qualify for it.
09/06/2010, 3:17 PM
pineapple stu

Derry and Cork were both liquidated; don't see why there'd be any difference between the two. But maybe the ban is only for examinership instead of liquidation.
09/06/2010, 3:23 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Derry and Cork were both liquidated; don't see why there'd be any difference between the two. But maybe the ban is only for examinership instead of liquidation.

Apologies, I had forgotten Derry we liquidated.
09/06/2010, 3:58 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

The main problem is that it is another visable statement that the downsides or risks of the Boom or Bust model are fairly modest (for clubs without assets).

I agree with you on this. I think that what has happened to Derry (debts wiped clean and probably automatic promotion back to the Premier - in short, one season out of the top flight) is not enough of a deterrent to clubs in the future. However, the people you should be angry with are the FAI who are are allowing it to happen.

You can't really blame (well, I can't really blame) Cork and Derry for trying to limit the damage to their club and maintain as much of a link with their history as possible - Limerick 37, who morphed 'back' into Limerick FC, have done basically the same thing.
09/06/2010, 6:33 PM
Sean South

http://i45.tinypic.com/2ileyiv.jpg
10/06/2010, 1:50 AM
Riddickcule

Ridiculous argument, why does it bother people this much seriously. If CCFC/DCFC want to buy the name, trophies etc. let them fire ahead, whats more important is the history of the citys achievements in the league, not which club done it if there were many clubs.

My point is, of all the cork clubs hibs, united, athletic so what if they were all different organisations. What matters is the city of Cork and the history of the sport in the city and all of it put together should combine to represent the true success of football in Cork.

Feck it, let every cork club's trophies come together in the new CCFC.
10/06/2010, 7:29 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddickcule

My point is, of all the cork clubs hibs, united, athletic so what if they were all different organisations. What matters is the city of Cork and the history of the sport in the city and all of it put together should combine to represent the true success of football in Cork.

I dont know about that. I think if they are different clubs then they should be separate to be fair. In this case it clearly is the same club and i think hand on heart everyone on here knows that. Half of the comments here saying it shouldn't be allowed happen serve to analyse the rules and safeguards in place to prevent serious abuse of it and i'd agree with that. The other half is just banter. But when all is said and done we all know its the same club and everyone else if in this situation would do the same and rightly so imo.

The football support in Cork is very fractured and divided as a result of the various clubs coming to a premature end, those fans literally gave up going to games and a lot of them would be described as being bitter and begrudging towards City. It has cut off generations of potential fans for City and if this continuation of the club can allow us to carry the baton for the next generation and we focus on getting people to games then the future of the club will have the fan base to stay stable and sustain full time football in the city.
10/06/2010, 7:53 AM
stann

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddickcule

My point is, of all the cork clubs hibs, united, athletic so what if they were all different organisations. What matters is the city of Cork and the history of the sport in the city and all of it put together should combine to represent the true success of football in Cork.

Feck it, let every cork club's trophies come together in the new CCFC.

Ridiculous comment. Why not do the same in Dublin so?
Put up Drumcondra's, James' Gate's, Dolphin's titles, Transport's FAI Cup as well sure.
Share them out between the current clubs, or sell them to the highest bidder, doesn't matter, what's important is Dublin and the history of the sport in the city.
Mother of God.
10/06/2010, 8:52 AM
Mr A

I think the central point is how serious those running our league are about its credibility. Every time a club goes through what Cork or Derry did last year it does serious damage to the league and hurts every club in it. Any given instance may not do much, but it all adds up and makes the difficult task of keeping a senior club going that bit more difficult.

Therefore there should be every possible deterrent to reckless behaviour and walking away from debts etc. That includes not allowing clubs to officially take over the history of previous incarnations. It may be written off here, but it means a lot to supporters and will add an incentive to make sure that they stay engaged with their clubs and try to make sure they remain stable.

In Cork's case at least the supporters made a concerted effort to address their problem, but in other cases this simply didn't happen. And if these clubs are allowed to keep a place in the league, keep their history etc while walking away from their debts- why wouldn't they be financially reckless? The rewards outweigh the hazards in that case by a long chalk and that is simply wrong.
10/06/2010, 9:48 AM
A face

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

In Cork's case at least the supporters made a concerted effort to address their problem, but in other cases this simply didn't happen. And if these clubs are allowed to keep a place in the league, keep their history etc while walking away from their debts- why wouldn't they be financially reckless? The rewards outweigh the hazards in that case by a long chalk and that is simply wrong.

Agreed on that post, and something needs to be done to tighten up that whole area but i'm glad a distinction has been made between the two scenarios, a club looking to get stabilty and conduct themselves effectively and prudently and that compared to clubs -> management who are clearly reckless and do not have the clubs/leagues interests at heart.
10/06/2010, 10:02 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by A face

but i'm glad a distinction has been made between the two scenarios, a club looking to get stabilty and conduct themselves effectively and prudently and that compared to clubs -> management who are clearly reckless and do not have the clubs/leagues interests at heart.

But any 'tightening up' of the rules would punish the regime responsible for going into administration, regardless of how good the plans are of the group looking to start a new regime / club.

In your quote above, while FORAS may be the former category, Coughlan was certainly the latter, and any punishment would be meted on the basis of what he'd done, not what FORAS were planning to do, surely?
10/06/2010, 10:06 AM
Mr A

If you want to claim to be the same club then you must accept the consequences of what previous regimes did. You should not be able to cherry pick what you want to retain.
10/06/2010, 3:05 PM
mr.untitled

Like CCFC, Drogheda were badly mismanaged over the last few years leaving the club in examinership.Unlike CCFC, the people of the town rallied around and raised a small fortune to help the club exit examinership. The club is still alive but just. My fear is the precedent this sets (i know it happened in Limerick but Cork is a higher profile example). The idea that you can let your club fold, screw over your creditors and two years later you have the exact same club back. What incentive is there to exit examinership? I guess its a bit like 'what was all that crap about last year if its going to be the same club with new owners?'
10/06/2010, 4:07 PM
Riddickcule

Quote:

Originally Posted by stann

Ridiculous comment. Why not do the same in Dublin so?
Put up Drumcondra's, James' Gate's, Dolphin's titles, Transport's FAI Cup as well sure.
Share them out between the current clubs, or sell them to the highest bidder, doesn't matter, what's important is Dublin and the history of the sport in the city.
Mother of God.

Different situation as there always one club in Cork. In Dublin there will always be numerous clubs.

Mother of God right back at ye.
10/06/2010, 4:09 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Different situation as there always one club in Cork. In Dublin there will always be numerous clubs.

Mother of God right back at ye.

Cork Celtic (1959-79) and Cork Hibernians (1957-76) competed directly against each other for many years.

Should Cork City get the trophies won by both of these teams?
10/06/2010, 4:10 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Different situation as there always one club in Cork.

Not true; there's been cases where there were two Cork teams in the league at the same time. 1978-79 was the most recent time - Cork Celtic and Cork Alberts.

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