Sammy Morrow: Betting case

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23/03/2010, 9:03 PM
kdjaC

Assume ignorance is a fine plea according to the PFAI?
23/03/2010, 9:09 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Kildare v Longford – 5 June 2009

based on the rule you posted Jicked, it looks like he's off the hook for that one as its a Div 1 game. :)

Anyone know if these rules were in force when Dempsey was suspended for two games for betting on a Pats game (which is also different to the bets that McGlynn made) a couple of seasons ago? Precedent there suggests a fine and short ban might suffice for McGlynn.
23/03/2010, 9:25 PM
kdjaC

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

based on the rule you posted Jicked, it looks like he's off the hook for that one as its a Div 1 game. :)

Anyone know if these rules were in force when Dempsey was suspended for two games for betting on a Pats game (which is also different to the bets that McGlynn made) a couple of seasons ago? Precedent there suggests a fine and short ban might suffice for McGlynn.

they were in force he was uhh banned on the basis of the rules, which suggest to me these lads may be in more poop then they let on.
24/03/2010, 9:07 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

(sorry no idea how to use report function)

Click the triangle under the post.
24/03/2010, 9:08 AM
brianw82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jicked

I didn't know the rule was that strict. There was a Sligo player last year putting stuff up on his facebook about betting on a game he was playing in which I presume would see the book thrown at him (he backed himself for first scorer if I remember correctly, I posted about it at the time)

Alan Cawley, if I remember right. Playing for Pats at the time.

That was a classic thread. :)
24/03/2010, 10:15 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

Anyone know if these rules were in force when Dempsey was suspended for two games for betting on a Pats game (which is also different to the bets that McGlynn made) a couple of seasons ago? Precedent there suggests a fine and short ban might suffice for McGlynn.

Dempsey was banned for 5 games under the very same rule (He was banned for 2 games by the club before the FAI/League sanction)
24/03/2010, 10:24 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

i didnt say they did but i think most sane people would acknowledge that there is a difference in the two offences.

There may be a slight moral difference in terms of how fans of each club view it... But Dempsey bet on a single LOI game (in a double with a British game) that he wasn't involved in. McGlynn bet on 4 LOI games he wasn't involved in. I can't imagine how you think he'd get less than the 5 games Dempsey got (and as mentioned, he could not be sacked under the Standard playing Contract)
24/03/2010, 1:05 PM
shep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

There may be a slight moral difference in terms of how fans of each club view it... But Dempsey bet on a single LOI game (in a double with a British game) that he wasn't involved in. McGlynn bet on 4 LOI games he wasn't involved in. I can't imagine how you think he'd get less than the 5 games Dempsey got (and as mentioned, he could not be sacked under the Standard playing Contract)

I know at least 10 l.o.i players past and present who regularly do/did weekend accumulators involving other teams. They were certainly not secrative about it and i am sure were unaware of consequences.I think they thought as long as it was not a game they were involved in that it was ok
24/03/2010, 1:18 PM
de bowez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

There may be a slight moral difference in terms of how fans of each club view it... But Dempsey bet on a single LOI game (in a double with a British game) that he wasn't involved in. McGlynn bet on 4 LOI games he wasn't involved in. I can't imagine how you think he'd get less than the 5 games Dempsey got (and as mentioned, he could not be sacked under the Standard playing Contract)

Read the rule posted above "in which that person or his club is participating or has control over" of course Dempseys was far worse than the 3 games McGlynn bet on - the 1st Div game can obv be ruled out.
24/03/2010, 1:30 PM
pineapple stu

Were Derry competing in the "League of Ireland Premier Division" or the "League of Ireland"?

A case could probably be made for both.
24/03/2010, 1:36 PM
Ash

Seeing as we're in the Brandywell on Friday, anyone know who Sammy is betting on?
24/03/2010, 1:40 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Were Derry competing in the "League of Ireland Premier Division" or the "League of Ireland"?

A case could probably be made for both.

it is probably meant to cover both but i dont think the language really supports that. "participates in or has control over" is pretty weak in my opinion. Did you win the League of Ireland Division One Championship or did you just come 11th in the League of Ireland? (just trying to illustrate my point)
24/03/2010, 1:45 PM
pineapple stu

We won the League of Ireland First Division. But "Division" really suggests a partition, so really, we were in the same competition as Derry last year, just in a different part of the same competition.
24/03/2010, 2:02 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

There may be a slight moral difference in terms of how fans of each club view it... But Dempsey bet on a single LOI game (in a double with a British game) that he wasn't involved in. McGlynn bet on 4 LOI games he wasn't involved in. I can't imagine how you think he'd get less than the 5 games Dempsey got (and as mentioned, he could not be sacked under the Standard playing Contract)

Dempsey played for Pats and bet on a Pats game that he was not involved in. McGlynn played for Derry and bet on 8 teams (4 ties), none of which were Derry. Morrow bet on games he particpated in. 3 degrees of the same offence and I think there is an obvious difference between each instance. In my opinion, McGlynns is the lesser of the 3 offences.
24/03/2010, 2:05 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We won the League of Ireland First Division. But "Division" really suggests a partition, so really, we were in the same competition as Derry last year, just in a different part of the same competition.

i disagree - two seperate trophies, two seperate champions - therefore two seperate competitions only one of which he participated in or had control over.
24/03/2010, 2:34 PM
osarusan

Does a player betting on a Prem division game he's not involved in (nor his team) have more control over the result than if betting on a game in a different division?
24/03/2010, 2:36 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Were Derry competing in the "League of Ireland Premier Division" or the "League of Ireland"?

A case could probably be made for both.

Or neither, retrospectively.
24/03/2010, 2:47 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by osarusan

Does a player betting on a Prem division game he's not involved in (nor his team) have more control over the result than if betting on a game in a different division?

thats not what the rule speaks to Osa. Once your team is participating, the control part of the law doesnt matter as you have already breached the rule. You dont necessarily have to have control over the game - it is just an offence to bet on the "result, conduct or progress of a match or competition in which that person or his club is participating or has control over".

The control part speaks to cases like Morrow's i.e. the player had control over the result conduct or progress of the game (because he played).
24/03/2010, 2:58 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by shep

I know at least 10 l.o.i players past and present who regularly do/did weekend accumulators involving other teams. They were certainly not secrative about it and i am sure were unaware of consequences.I think they thought as long as it was not a game they were involved in that it was ok

Yep, I'd imagine we all do.

As above, Dempsey bet on a game he had no control over. McGlynn did the same.

The argument is over whether the rule applies to all matches within a competition (which I think it does) or whether its specifically applies to matches his club were involved in (which I assume Bohs fans are arguing)

I should point out, I've no real problem with players betting on LOI games they're not playing in (regardless of who they play for, and who they bet on). Others can have their own morality thresholds higher.
24/03/2010, 2:59 PM
mrtndvn

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

Dempsey played for Pats and bet on a Pats game that he was not involved in. McGlynn played for Derry and bet on 8 teams (4 ties), none of which were Derry. Morrow bet on games he particpated in. 3 degrees of the same offence and I think there is an obvious difference between each instance. In my opinion, McGlynns is the lesser of the 3 offences.

Wrong. So far what we know is,
1/ Morrow bet on Derry games.
2/ McGlynn used the same computer as Morrow for a number of bets.
3/ Betfair were concerned about Mcglynn's betting pattern
4/ McGlynn has admitted to breaking rules by betting on 4 different matches.

You and many others are extremely naive to think that that is all McGlynn done, its simply all he as admitted to. It's well known that McGlynn likes a bet, his statement alone suggests he only ever bet on 4 loi games? Thats sheer madness in itself

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