Willie O Dea: Proven Liar

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Originally Posted by weecountyman

One simple thing, senators are elected by the people, not placed in there for their "goodwill" to parties. If they were a proper and confident body elected the same as TD's there might be some actual progress made. The elections could take place at the same time as Dail elections.

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Well said.

Again, this notion that we should close the Senate because it doesn't currently work is just a nonsense. According to that logic we should also close the Dail, get rid of the President, shoot all the judges, drown the cabinet, and shoot the Taoiseach into space. We should probably all kill ourselves too, because it appears we love the idiots that do all this, and vote them in time and time again.

Forget my idea of reform, I'd love to know how proponents of this idiocy think the country should be run. Would ye like a nice dictator to run the country for ye?

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Originally Posted by kingcorner

At least he resigned.

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He was told to resign. Big difference.

Well I think shooting the Taoiseach into space would be a hell of a first step towards reform!

On the points above- apologies if that came across as a personal comment, it was meant to be about the clientist political system. Indeed I do believe the system needs to be reformed to combat this. The role of the Dail is to legislate in the National interest but instead TDs spend their time as local fixers- that's just not how it's meant to be.

Indeed this whole row blew up because the SF complained about O Dea using civil servants to offer help (unsolicited by the way) in planning applications in his constituency.

On the Dell jobs- it was always going to be next to impossible to keep those jobs in Ireland long term. In a few years they'll probably up sticks and leave Poland too. We've played the globalisation game well done well out of it, but have to recognise that we'll lose by it as well as win.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

If people can't see the bigger picture in that case we may was well all jump under the next passing bus. :(

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The electorate can't be trusted - time for a list system so we have legislators rather than glorified county councilors. I don't particularly like the system as it does remove accountability, but if we can't get people to cop on what TD's should be accountable about (i.e. Legislation, Government Policies and not I need a passport in a hurry, I'm looking for planning etc.), we must change the system to protect people from themselves.

Just on the senate being elected for by the people. If they are held at the same time as General Elections, the likelihood of it being alligned to the TDs returned is fairly large. So that checks and balances thing some are seeking wouldn't exist. Senators however, do play an important role in many committees. mainly because TDs are too busy keeping themselves electable

For a FG example of disgraceful "parish pump" politics see the PQ from Joe McHugh on passports

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?...0-02-09.1214.0

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Originally Posted by Scram

Why indeed. The Sindo rag and the preposterous Eoghan Harris responsible for getting Bertie back in to power. Anyone who buys any INM rag should be ashamed. Harris was on Newstall today ranting about Shinners and the armed conflict! in DEFENCE of O'Dea!! This obnoxious fool is costing us 100's of thousands as a Senator thanks to Bertie.

GOOD RIDDANCE TO O'DEA BUT The Senate MUST be closed.

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You are dead right about Harris, but I buy the Indo to read Shane Ross, Bruce Arnold, A Roddick and the unmissable Gene Kerrigan - the paper is funny in that you can get someone as deluded as M Coleman in the same paper as Shane Ross, etc.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Well I think shooting the Taoiseach into space would be a hell of a first step towards reform!

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This one, certainly, and the last one of course. But not all of them.

It wouldn't make sense to have Senate elections at the same time as the Dail. But it is a fair point that them NOT being elected does have it's advantages. I'm just not sure it's the way to go. The elected House and Senate works in the US, there's no reason it shouldn't work here. The problem with the US system is that they take it too far in the other direction, electing professionals like sherrifs too. Plus of course their electoral system is a mess.

I'd agree that the Seanad should be kept, perhaps like the US there would be equal representation per county (no Dail rep at the moment for Leitrim) and add 1-2 Senators to represent first-generation Irish living abroad. The list system would also be a good idea for half the Dail seats, but there would have to be a threshold of 3-5% to ensure there wouldn't be dozens of parties with one member getting elected.

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Originally Posted by culloty82

I'd agree that the Seanad should be kept, perhaps like the US there would be equal representation per county (no Dail rep at the moment for Leitrim) and add 1-2 Senators to represent first-generation Irish living abroad. The list system would also be a good idea for half the Dail seats, but there would have to be a threshold of 3-5% to ensure there wouldn't be dozens of parties with one member getting elected.

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I'm not sure about the first generation vote, look at how it works in Croatia. The war there was funded and fuelled by "diaspora" who wouldn't dare set foot on the old rock, but who paid mercenaries (including some ira headers) to come in and join paramiliatry groups that the dictator tudjman then used for extra-territorial conflicts. Now the government has held onto power thanks to these 2nd and 3rd generation clowns who reckon the way to show national pride is to fight on bondi beach or at the Aussie Open (not just with Serbs, but with Bosniaks, Russians, Africans and anyone they figure doesn't suit their racist ideology). While I'm for including the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of Irish emigrants, in order to vote they'd have to be resident in Ireland. But the concept is great, think of the Argentines who still carry their heritage but are denied passports due to their distance from Ireland.

I agree that there should be representation from each county - there are 60 seats so at least 2 from every county with extra spots for larger constituencies. If the seanad were given freedom from the "goodwill" shackles there is enough intelligence and ability there to do a really good job. Who wouldn't vote for Shane Ross? Who would vote for Eoghan Little Bertie Harris?

edit: why should TCD be allowed have 3 Senators and the NUI, even with a larger constitutency, 3? 11 are appointments by the taoiseach. If the Seanad wanted any element of legitimacy these are the reasons why it needs to be reformed, not abolished.

If you want to vote in Ireland, representation in Ireland, or an Irish passport, then you should live in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

If you want to vote in Ireland... then you should live in Ireland.

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Agree 100% Nobody who doesn't have to live with the consequences of their vote shouldn't get a say in how the country is run.

No problem with people of Irish heritage becoming Irish citizens or holding Irish passport.

I'm more concerned about taxes than citizenship and passports.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Agree 100% Nobody who doesn't have to live with the consequences of their vote shouldn't get a say in how the country is run.

No problem with people of Irish heritage becoming Irish citizens or holding Irish passport.

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I doubt I'll be coming back to Ireland any time soon, because I've a much better chance of getting a job in Scotland, and next to none back home. Does that mean that I should be excluded from voting for a government I believe would facilitate enough job creation to allow me to come back?

Yes, it should. Nothing personal meant by it, but that's how it should be. I can't afford to pay myself at the moment, but I'm still here. I've earned my right to vote. If I have to move to live, I'll leave my vote behind, and that's how it should be.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

Does that mean that I should be excluded from voting for a government I believe would facilitate enough job creation to allow me to come back?

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Yep. 100% IF the crowd you vote in balls it up even worse and you decide to stay in Scotland, the rest of us have to deal with it, And without being funny, reading Irish sites on the internet will only get you so far. You have to be living here to undertand whats going on (and thats the same for everywhere else too)

I'm living here and I don't understand what's going on. I do understand that I could do a better job that most if not all of the current government ministers, and I'm not being facetious when I say that.

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Originally Posted by da?hamsta

If you want to vote in Ireland, representation in Ireland, or an Irish passport, then you should live in Ireland.

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I agree on the rest but taking an emigrant's passport is a bit harsh. Would we get it back if we wanted to come home?

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Originally Posted by Oz Student

I agree on the rest but taking an emigrant's passport is a bit harsh. Would we get it back if we wanted to come home?

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See post #71.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

Well said.

Again, this notion that we should close the Senate because it doesn't currently work is just a nonsense. According to that logic we should also close the Dail.

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The Seanad is a bit of a joke. They sit for one full day and 2 half days a week. They're out of sight between 2.30 on Thursday and 2.30 on Tuesday. 5 holidays per week, to sit at home and collect a massive salary, and other entitlements. Nice work if you can be appointed to it, but to the rest of us, it's an enormous waste of money. You can argue that the Dail is pointless too, but at least it draws up legislation, the Seanad simply waffles about it, approves it, sends it to the bill signer in the Aras, then goes home.

The Senate can't have elections in this country, as it needs to have more seats in the Dail ruling party in order to carry the votes. If there were elections for the Senate, it could have a majority for the opposition, and that poses it's own problems.

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

If you want to vote in Ireland, representation in Ireland, or an Irish passport, then you should live in Ireland.

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Agree on the vote, disagree on the passport - only because you don't qualify it. An Irish person moves abroad, lives and works and contributes int heir country of residence - this cannot preclude them from having an Irish passport because they're not resident in Ireland. If you have direct Irish ancestry this too should offer you the chance to obtain and Irish passport.

The whole issue of passports has been thrown into the spotlight the last week with the Mossad hit in Dubai. Read one pundit (kmyers) and we give away passports like red cards to a Sean Connor team, another will say (dmcwilliams) we should be more liberal - like the Israelis and their right of return. There has to be a balance, but unless you're resident in Ireland you should not be allowed to vote.

Back on the lying perjurer O Dea.. the Sunday Indo carries one of the most outrageous instances of a journalist giving a political figure a good ball-licking. I had not realised O Dea wrote for the Sindo as I would never buy that smug, sensalionalist rag.

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Aengus Fanning: First off, my commiserations. Not only are you one of the outstanding politicians in the country, and you are one of the best across the board in all the parties, but if I may say so you are a very fine journalist too.

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O Dea, true to form, throws allegations around when it clear that he is guilty as sin:

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"Well, I couldn't help but notice that the Irish Times seems to have taken a particular line on this. I find it a bit ironic that this is the same Irish Times that accepted a leaked document from the Mahon tribunal and were accused by the Supreme Court of subverting the law when they destroyed that document with great haste -- but they seem to have gone on the high moral ground and decided that I did something wrong, that I knowingly did something wrong, that they could look into the recesses of my mind and know what I was thinking, and their journalists campaigned to get rid of me."

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If you think you can hold on to your last meal despite the self pity, self promotion and general nausiating tone the full article is here: http://www.independent.ie/national-n...y-2072753.html