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http://www.eleven-a-side.com/blogs/viewblog.asp?bid=418
That is probably the best article i have seen with regard to our shambles of a league.
Almost every league in europe has gone through a thorough reform, many did so in the early 90's
The Fai are not fit for that reform, they failed to live up to the genisis, their 5 year plan clearly isn't working as after 3 years nothing has really changed.
It's an appalling article with absolutely no back-up for its conclusions.
10000 will turn out to watch Real for a friendly. Of course they will. Next step - find the money for an Irish club to sign Ronaldo and you'll get 10000 a wek turning out here. That money won't come, therefore the comparison is pointless.
It's just another poorly thought out GAA/Rugger Bugger assessment, a typically lazy, boring, weak effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickcule
If that's the best article you've seen, you should read a second article quickly before your brain rots.
Take this gem..
"Accustomed to the atmosphere at a crowded-to-capacity Croke Park for GAA and rugby matches, and the success on foreign fields of Leinster and Munster, the Irish sports public wants its teams to rub shoulders with the world’s best."
Yeah, we all know the typical Irish sports fan is an event junkie. He's a moron who wants to shake a shamrock, slap himself on the back because he respected God Save the Queen at Croke Park, drink himself stupid in Cardiff with the lads, think he's brilliant for humming along to the French national anthem; who knows how to get to Croke Park, but not Parnell Park, the kerryman who doesn't bother with league games because he's 'waiting for the all-Ireland', the Corkman who'll march with the hurlers in patrick street but won't watch the same fellas play a match a few weeks later, he's the fella who knew all about cricket when we beat Pakistan, who starts playing tennis when Wimbledon's on and who pops down the snooker hall when Ken Doherty is doing well. The fella who'll have a punt on the Grand National and discusses his tips, when he couldn't tell a horse from a greyhound the rest of the year. The fella who walked around in a Michael Jordan TShirt right throguh the 80's and 90's but who never knew that there was a National basketball arena. The Irish Sports Public has no interest in the graft, just the glory.
The people mentioned become "accustomed" to the Atmosphere in Croke park for maybe 3 Full Rugby games a year [if we play a decent Southern Hemisphere side in Autumn]. Maybe it's the 2 to 3 packed matches in the GAA championship he'll be accustomed to [as he avoids all the league games], he spends so much time on his backside in front of the TV that it's little wonder he's turned on by seeing Ronaldo in the flesh for €60 when he could get 5 competitive league games for that.
The knob who's accustomed to that is only accustomed to it because he'll only attend 5 'events' a year, and will only watch 10 'events' a year on the telly. AIL rugby teams play 20-30 games a year, League of ireland clubs play more, GAA county teams play many more league games in front of tiny but appreciative crowds than they play in front of capacity crowds at Croke Park. That type of knob doesn't have the stomach or the balls to be a proper supporter, doesn't have the spine to get off his arse to go see a team once a fortnight through the season.
Any attempt to redefine our league to meet the base whims of the lowest common denominator in Irish fans is doomed to failure. All that knob who wrote the article wants is to be there so that he can boast to his mates on Monday morning that he was there.
Tiktok, I can't find the thanks button, but you are spot on in your comments.
There's little reason to abolish the clubs - the European results show they're about the same standard as the middle of the Championship or the SPL minus the Old Firm. All that's required is that the FAI and clubs observe the licensing rules and get their own houses in order. It's only the individual clubs own faults if they are struggling to survive, first sort out the internal problems like wages and management before making marketing, regional development and community activities the priorities, as people will support their local club if they feel it belongs to them. As for the League itself, have a proper pyramid with county leagues feeding into provincial leagues, with an A Championship style First Division then linking to the Premier, so that every part of the country will feel part of the system.
The set up of the sports are completely different adam.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
The top GAA teams would play, on average, no more than 20 games per year, and even then league games get only a fraction of the support Championship games get.
The top rugby players in Ireland are centrally contracted. This would simply not work in football. Their own seasons are split in 4. 1) Warm up/early league games (followed by autumn international) 2) Heineken Cup group stages (when the Magners leageus takes a major step back and basically reserve teams playin most games) 3) 6 nations (when top players leave their provinces for 2 months) 4) End of season (when again magners league takes a massive step back from Heineken Cup). Its actualy in the players contracts that they their games are limited
Of course, none of these are of any relevence to Irish football, as the major block on irish football taking off isn't any of these, or the lack of FAI "initiative". It’s the fact the overwhelming majority of people interested in football in this country, proclaim their allegience to british clubs. I'm not trying to be a little Irelander here, but a 30 year old man who buys a Man Utd kit and has a Red Devil tatto is dead to the LOI. He's never, ever, ever going to be interested.
The League is grand. The problem is with people who think they're bigger than the league (Ollie, Arkaga, the Gerrys). The league can find a nice little space for itself, and can definitely develop its infracture to the point where all clubs are solvent. But we'll never be a big league. The "Great Sporting irish public" simply don't want to know. If that means part time, so be it.Quote:
Continuing in the misguided impression that the current setup can succeed, in light of overwhelming evidence against, is just plain wasteful, and will remain fruitless.
"The league is grand" sums it all up nicely though. If there is a main problem, that's it. It's not.
Couldnt have put it better. Plus agree with tiktok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
And that about sums it up, saying the league is grand....*sigh
I don't really understand how anyone can use that phrase in relation to the league. It's bizarro world stuff.
Because the league isn't the problem
the clubs are the problem. Most clubs are in a shambolic state. Getting rid of the league admin won't change one iota of this.
You are looking at it far too simplistically. Rugby, GAA and football are very different sports -m with very different traditions, support bases and heartlands. Just because one type of set-up works for one doesn't mean it'll work for another. Your own post inadvertently acknowledges this by referring to the fact that rugby and GAA have found success with two different structures - not the same one. Provincial doesn't worek for GAA, yet it does for Rugby. Yet just because a county structure works for GAA you're extrapolating that it will work for football. Where is the eveidence for this ? Where else in the world has football clubs worked on anything other than an club structure ? Even in the likes of the US and Australia - where football has been created from scratch - they implemented club structures.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Why ? Because that model reflects the history, support-base and heartland of football. In essence - it reflects the reality of the game. Football is an urban sport, with a largely working class history. Hence clubs in population centres is a sensible structure. Convesrely, GAA is a predominantly rural sport, with a very parish-up structure. Hence County works best for that. Rugby, however, now exists in a pan-national structure on a week-to-week league basis. The club structure in Ireland was juts too small and weak to enable participation in this - same also for Wales and Scotland. So the provincial/amalgamated structure made sense for rugby. But that doesn't mean that a Connaught FC or a Co Leitrim FC is the way forward for an urban largely workign class sport like football. Far from it. Different sports, different realities.
But what isn't working ??:confused: Are you saying the concept of club football doesn't work at all ? In which case that is patently wrong, as shown in every other country in the world. Alternatively - are you saying that it just won't work in Ireland ? If so - again that would be wrong. It has worked in the past here and it works in other small countries with similar issues re the appeal of other leagues (e.g. Cyprus, Norway). So what exactly doesn't work ?If you mean clubs spending more than they ahve and then ending up in trouble then yes - clearly that doesn't work. But the league doesn't HAVE to be that way !Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Everyone knows the league has problems. As others have suggested - the way to address that is to tackle the core of the problem, which is clubs doing stupid things with money. Ignoring the reality of the sport and looking to enforce an alien structure on it would do nothing. You'd still have Louth FC or AFC Derry spending more than they have. We don't need a change in structure - we need a change in culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Top top post steve
everything I wanted to say without the smartarsery
It's the clubs, it's the FAI, it's the clubs, it's the FAI, it's neither, it's both. Honest to god lads, take off the blinkers and look around. The clubs are in rag order and couldn't run a ****up in a brewery, and the FAI applies Modern Parenting techniques to them ("errah they'll be grand") because they couldn't give a crap about it anyway. It isn't grand, it's a basket case. Kick it while it's down, get rid of it.
I'm going to back away carefully now, because ye're convinced. And of course ye're entitled to. But it's your opinions that keep the league the way it is, and I'm entitled to laugh my ass off that too. With friends like ye, who needs enemies. ;)
Excellent post dcfcsteve even if a disagree with parts of it.
I do agree that there are fundamental differences between the audience for GAA, Rugby & Football and what works for 1 may and probably will not work for the other. I can see a time however where a Rugby style set up would work in Football, purely because the SPL is on the slide Celtic & Rangers are being dragged back to the level of Dundee/Killie etc.. rather than them dragging the others with them.
The Australia example is a relevant one because it wasn't entirely started from scratch, a new league was formed but the teams from old league got the option to bid for a franchise (and that's what they are, not clubs) in the shiney new fully professional league or to revert back to being part-time playing in their state leagues. A couple of sides from the old NSL did make the leap but the remainder reverted back to their old part-time or semi-pro status. If ever there is to be a fully professional league in Ireland, that's the template I'd like to see used, current clubs can pitch for the spot, those that don't want to can stay in a part time sustainable league, the key is to make sure there are stringent financial controls in place so that bidding clubs have got the cash to support full-time football.
Comparrsions with places like Cyprus or Nowmay are as irrelevant as comparing Football to the GAA or Rugby imo, they have different cultures and nothing like the diversity of major team sports being played like we do here. They are not competing with Gaelic Football, Hurling, Rugby Horse Racing & Golffor column inches in the Sunday Sports supplement.
The league doesn't have to be the way it is, but how many times to you tinker with it in similar formats before you finally realise that a more fundemental change is needed. It's like a relationship that goes bad, you try to make it work, you buy flowers, you spend money you don't have to whisk her off to Paris for the weekend to try to inject some romance but when you're back in Dublin on a soggy March Monday morning you realise that you have nothing in common anymore and you finally call it quits before you end up hating each other.
but norway has other sports to compete with that we dont have like every winter sport imainable like coss country skiing or ski jumping to name but a few which draw huge crowds so i'm sure they have a lot of people who are intrested in spors such as that and dont care at all about football and their legue works just fine because the clubs dont go spending money they dont have. whyle cyprus has a few sugar daddys bankroling the clubs dont they?
Thing is, until you can shown some sort of reason why changing to a county-based structure would have a positive effect on the league, we're going to laugh at you too, and dismiss your opinions in the same way we do Riddickule's.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
The people who run the legaue and the clubs are, by and large, morons. (There are some very capable people too, who would be lost and not replaced under your proposal). The solution to people being morons isn't to go changing the fundamental structure of the clubs. They're just two utterly unconnected things.
tiktok and steve deserve some kind of award for their brilliant posts.
In recent weeks Crystal Palace were deducted 12 points for going into administration and in the past similar sanctions have been issued to Leeds, Luton, Southampton etc.
Portsmouth players miss payment of wages on a regular basis a la Cork City.
It was recently announced that only two teams in the English Premier League are dept free - Birmingham and Wolves - with Man U announcing they have a dept of over 700 million pounds.
Now where were the calls to scrap the English league and start again and when was it ever claimed that English football was in crisis.
Of course our league is far from perfect, god knows we hear enough about all its difficulties but it also has so many attractions going for it that makes it a complete joy, it's just that no one wants to talk about them.
And replace it with what? You think there's tons of people out there loking to be involved in running professional/semi professional football in Ireland? So we replace them with 26/32 new county teams. Who builds those stadiums? The FAI have bent over backwards (multiple times) to ensure clubs don't die because they know that they don't have clubs ready to replace them. How will changing league admin improve spectator facilities and playing standards?Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Spot on Redie, don't see too many clamouring for the Premier League in England to be scrapped. Why? Because the clubs ran up the debts through stupid takeovers or exhorbitant wages agreements. Overhaul all the CLUBS here and put proper manage,ent of the league in place, but the 'scrap the league' line is simplistic and foolish IMO
Theoretically you could have a league in place regionally that already has grounds/infrastructures in place to go....
Dunleary/Rathdown: (UCD Bowl)
Fingal (Morton Stadium Tolka Park)
Blanchardstown (Dalymount not a million miles away)
Tallaght/Clondalkin (Tallaght Stadium)
Dundalk/Drogheda: (Oriel, United Park)
Cork (Turners X)
Limerick (Jackman)
Kerry League (Tralee)
Galway/Mayo (Terryland)
Sligo/Leitrim (Showgrounds)
Athlone/Longford/Monaghan (choice of 3 )
Donegal (Ballybofey)
Derry (Brandywell)
Waterford (RSC)
Wexford (Ferrycarrig)
That could make up a 15 team league spilit geographically that if marketed, and advertised correctly could make a conceiveable league. Plus because of the regional aspect of it, it could attract a following from people who want to support their county or region rather that a club, thereby attracting the GAA ish element.