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(a)There is no eveidence for that whatsoever.Quote:
Originally posted by eoinh
(a) IMO if Pearse et al hadnt used violence during 1916 we would now have a free, independent and united ireland.
(b)The IRA campaign is an example of a terrorist campaign that didnt work.
(b)Actually the Brits have said they've no selfish or strategic interest in Ireland so that's not true either.
Thats cos they haven't - Norn Iron is a drain on their resources and has been for decades.Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
(b)Actually the Brits have said they've no selfish or strategic interest in Ireland so that's not true either.
Sure you must have been so proud all the times London blown up.Quote:
Originally posted by davros
Good to see the good'old'(very old!)rebel? county of Corcaigh getting stuck right in......
Thats the key to it- POLITICALLY. The whole thing was politically motivated. Regardless of whether or not Gerry Adams was in the IRA (and i think most people accept he was involved in some way at some stage) this whole thing has set the peace process back for the sake of a few votes. The Peace Process should be above politics- its something everyone should be helping along, not using it as a political football because SF are doing well in the polls.Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
Politically they already have made Adams look very stupid.
Personally I couldn't give a monkeys whether Gerry Adams was in the IRA or not. Without him there would still be a war going on and hundreds of people more would have died, and the likes of McDowell would do well to remember that.
Most laughable comment of the whole saga was Michael McDowell claiming in an interview with the Star that he was "more of a nationalist than Gerry Adams will ever be.":rolleyes:
I'm sure a signifcant minority on this island might have felt the same way about Michael Collins, and de valera and all those other people who were in our first Dáil all those years ago. Everyone is entitled to a second chance.Quote:
Originally posted by patsh
It phsyically disgusts me that Martin Ferris, a convicted gun runner, should have been elected ahead of a man, (his party allegience is immaterial), who did as much as he could to stop the killing and try to get some sort of peaceful settlement.
The PDs just want swimming pools full of money to arse around with, and they don't want anything or anyone getting in the way of that- be it pensioners, immigrants or god forbid nationalists. They are the ultimate refuge of the cold-hearted capitalist. The fact that they are in power in theis country is probably the greatest single blow to the reputation of Irish people as kind and welcoming in our history.Quote:
Originally posted by Paddy Ramone
Yeah the PD's are very sinister alright. They're even worse than the Nazis in many respects. They even make Fine Gael look like a bunch of pinko lefties. The PD's support the New World Order of Bush and Blair and want to destroy the last remnants of Irish identity like the Irish language.
rubbish. if they hadn't done what they did, you'd still have those bowler-hatted dinosaurs ruling the roost in stormont, and letting their friendly local paramilitary, oops I mean police, force kick taigs up and down the street whenever they felt like it. The IRA campaign made two mistakes IMO;Quote:
Originally posted by eoinh
The IRA campaign is an example of a terrorist campaign that didnt work.
1. They targetted civilians, when they should have stuck entirely to targetting forces of occupation i.e. Army and RUC.
2. They should have called a halt at least 5 years earlier.
The history of the British occupation of this island has been violence followed by negotiation. That process has been followed tim after time after time, and while its not nice or right I don't think we would have got this far without it. Some people just don't understand talking
Going off topic, but he was right when he said it was the thin end of the wedge. See the building levy's for starters.....Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
Hear hear, even Joe Higgins TD...
The IRA campaign ruled out political advancement for 25 years. It stifled any chance for economic development in the south as well during that period. Criminal activity as well by them continues still. The British have wanted to get rid of NI for a long time now.Quote:
Originally posted by Éanna
rubbish. if they hadn't done what they did, you'd still have those bowler-hatted dinosaurs ruling the roost in stormont, and letting their friendly local paramilitary, oops I mean police, force kick taigs up and down the street whenever they felt like it. The IRA campaign made two mistakes IMO;
1. They targetted civilians, when they should have stuck entirely to targetting forces of occupation i.e. Army and RUC.
2. They should have called a halt at least 5 years earlier.
The history of the British occupation of this island has been violence followed by negotiation. That process has been followed tim after time after time, and while its not nice or right I don't think we would have got this far without it. Some people just don't understand talking
Remember tonight when you're watching the news that the death and destruction that happened in Spain was also heaped on people in this island using the same methods. Tortutre and mutilation is not something to br proud of, The IRA routinely used torture and mutilation.
Eoinh what you are forgetting is that the 1916 risings were not supported by the people. In fact they were spat at in Dublin after the rising.
The people of Ireland had no interest in a Republic. Home rule as part of the United Kingdom was the most they wanted.
If there was to be no rising there would have been no executions of the leaders and hence no public support.
It all revolves around idea of the time of the blood scarfice etc.
We'd have something akin to the Scottish Parliament or New Zeland. That cousin marrying German woman would be our head of state and our national flag would most likely be some sort of thing with a Union Jack throw in the corner.
Blocking a bin truck compared to the kinda stuff that's on the news? Are you serious Conor? Was it a criminal act, or a civil matter (I think it was Civil rather than Criminal, but open to correction from any legal eagles out there).Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
Some criminal acts are more objectionable than others? Or just that TDs convicted of offences and jailed who are Socialist are okay, whereas Sinn Fein TDs who have never been convicted of anything (and they don't all have records to match Ferris) deserve approbation?
pains me to have to say this on a political thread SOC, but i agree with ya 100%Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
Eoinh what you are forgetting is that the 1916 risings were not supported by the people. In fact they were spat at in Dublin after the rising.
The people of Ireland had no interest in a Republic. Home rule as part of the United Kingdom was the most they wanted.
If there was to be no rising there would have been no executions of the leaders and hence no public support.
It all revolves around idea of the time of the blood scarfice etc.
We'd have something akin to the Scottish Parliament or New Zeland. That cousin marrying German woman would be our head of state and our national flag would most likely be some sort of thing with a Union Jack throw in the corner.
Slept thru most of this thread but dunno how anyone can support or fial to condemn the IRA while condemn the bombings Madrid today.
Bit of a difference pete as regards warnings targets etc.Quote:
Originally posted by pete
Slept thru most of this thread but dunno how anyone can support or fial to condemn the IRA while condemn the bombings Madrid today.
Though people who let foolish kids loose with explosives in crowded fish shops should be shot.
You mean like Warrington? Only difference is the scale....Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
Bit of a difference pete as regards warnings targets etc.
AFAIK there was a warning there wasn't there?Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
You mean like Warrington? Only difference is the scale....
Re what Pete said, my comment on that was that if the IRA had stuck to military targets it would have ben a different story. Same goes for ETA. No matter how just your cause, attacking civilians is never on.
AFAIK it was one of the clear as mud warnings.Quote:
Originally posted by Éanna
AFAIK there was a warning there wasn't there?
fair enough. As i said, no matter how just the cause targetting civilians is cowardly and evil and any right-thinking person must condemn it.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
AFAIK it was one of the clear as mud warnings.
You might have that. But New Zealand is an independent country. For me a small sacrifice like that is worth it for a united independent country. BTW if we ever do have a unified 32 county ireland i doubt if our flag would be the same or our national anthem. it would have to be changed to reflect all traditions on this island - not one!Quote:
Originally posted by SÓC
Eoinh what you are forgetting is that the 1916 risings were not supported by the people. In fact they were spat at in Dublin after the rising.
The people of Ireland had no interest in a Republic. Home rule as part of the United Kingdom was the most they wanted.
If there was to be no rising there would have been no executions of the leaders and hence no public support.
It all revolves around idea of the time of the blood scarfice etc.
We'd have something akin to the Scottish Parliament or New Zeland. That cousin marrying German woman would be our head of state and our national flag would most likely be some sort of thing with a Union Jack throw in the corner.
For the flag ild say it would revert to the traditional one of a harp on a blue background.
The FF subscription forms are in the post.Quote:
Originally posted by Éanna
pains me to have to say this on a political thread SOC, but i agree with ya 100%
Welcome to the Party Éanna.