Getting on the Block Booking

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04/11/2009, 7:42 AM
Polster

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

Everything you're suggesting there is adding admin.

I'm keen to find out if there are 4 guys with 30,000 bits of paper in there in Abbotstown dealing with this.

I agree with what you're saying- they should be doing all that as well as limiting future block bookers to 2 per person and as you say denying any further requests for increases!

You have a block booking I take it Polster? (or access to one)

For the last 18 years yes. I find it crazy that we have to concern ourselves with the admin side of the FAI, but unfortunately this is the perception a lot of us have grown of them, that being of a fairly amateurish organisation with a couple of people working away in the ticket office with paper and pen, or a fairly basic and manual application.

Bring back genesis.
04/11/2009, 7:52 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

With regards to the suggestion on another post that only away games would count towards the points system. Whilst I agree doing this attempts to make it a level playing field in terms of travelling from UK/Ireland to away games only are counted, what it does is completely ignore the commitment made by those who travel to the homes games from the UK and further afield. Personally, I would travel to all home games from the UK, in the past I would have travelled to all the away games also but this campaign and for the forseeable future that is likely to be down to 1 or 2 away games. Ignoring the time/expense/commitment I make for the home games would seem unfair - Though you could argue it is my choice to live in the UK I suppose.

Also - Attending home games is what supports the FAI (financially) away games do not. To ignore this wouldnt seem right? A bit like the WL's frustrations at not getting on the BB System how would that compare to my frustration at not being able to get an away ticket because I only travel to one away game per campaign but do attend all the home games?*

* Im speaking hypothetically - I wouldnt be in the least bit worried about travelling without a ticket and picking one up from various sources / at the location but in the interests of designing this perfect system these points would need to be considered.

Junior there are just too many varialbes when counting the home games, you could argue that living beside stansted airport with the advent of cheap flights it nealrly cheaper and quicker to get to dublin than if you came from Derry/Kerry etc. There are just 2 many varialbles in home games. It is a simle demarcation. If you start bring home games into it it gets to complicated.

Why should the guy who lives beside LR get the same home points as the guy who flys from London, what about the guy from Derry, what about the guy who has to drive 3 hours to get to Bristol airport to get a flight - too many variables

I am a waiting lister and am unlikely ever to become a BB as will be the majority of Wl's. From the last 10 away games I am on 3 points after spending considerable money and anual leave following/supporting the team.

If there are 8500 people who have more than 3 points in the last 10 games then as far as I am concerned they are more entitled to tickets than me. But, I dont think there are and from what is apparent on the various sites is that people who have never travelled, rarely travelled or just Joe Public has been allocated Tickets for France away - which quite frankly is a disgrace
04/11/2009, 8:04 AM
Bluetonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenforever

You still have not given any proof that it is BB tickets that are being touted.

What sort of proof are you looking for? You say yourself in the below quote that tickets are being touted. So even you admit block booking tickets are touted? (agreed a lot are sponsors but that leaves block booking tickets) I have the mis fortune of buying them before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenforever

As Ive said before very few tickets get into touts hands and you will find that a lot of these are probably from sponsors who give tickets to customers who then choose to cash in etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenforever

Please educate me on these great systems used by other FAs throughout Western Europe, I assume you are relating to the super efficent Germans who through their system posted somewhere between 10 and 20,000 tickets to Ireland for the match in Stuttgart or is it the French who let us buy close to 30,000 tickets for the last Paris match :D

I mentioned nothing about the other FA systems. Have a look at club football systems like I have already mentioned but you chose to ignore. Germany play their home games all around the country so don't implement a system - the reason is fairly obvious I would have thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenforever

I hate to tell you there is no problem with the BB system

Why are you against obvious improvements to the block booking as have been outlined already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenforever

Bluetonic

An old post of yours agreeing with the bb scheme!

http://foot.ie/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=623561

Agreeing with it? I'm asking more questions than agreeing with it. I was trying to ascertain how this can be accommodated.

The fact is the block booking is a system that was implemented to solve a problem at the time. Now is the time to build upon it.

Just edited to add that I believe the ticket off is extremely fair, however I also believe a paperless ticket system and it's associations is the way forward.
04/11/2009, 8:08 AM
Polster

Away Games System

I strongly disagree with the away games points system.

I've been going to home games regularly since 87, when I was 11. I got on the bb in 92, was fairly straight forward then.

I now have a wife and kids and live in London. I still go to some away games most campaigns, and travel back to Dublin for the home games. My point is I don't feel it would be very fair to now turn around and say I am loosing my BB allocation to some new kid on the block because he can afford to go to every or most away games in a campaign. Surely years of loyal support counts for something also, and bare in mind we have taken tickets for some poor games and campaigns over the years, but kept going and supporting none the less, as I know most on here would do also.
04/11/2009, 8:15 AM
Bluetonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polster

I strongly disagree with the away games points system.

My point is I don't feel it would be very fair to now turn around and say I am loosing my BB allocation to some new kid on the block because he can afford to go to every or most away games in a campaign. Surely years of loyal support counts for something also, and bare in mind we have taken tickets for some poor games and campaigns over the years, but kept going and supporting none the less, as I know most on here would do also.

Who is proposing that you lose your home block booking due to non attendance of away games?

There is a big problem on this thread of people not reading and comprehending the systems that are being proposed and it's not helping the discussion which in the main is interesting.
04/11/2009, 8:26 AM
Polster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluetonic

Who is proposing that you lose your home block booking due to non attendance of away games?

There is a big problem on this thread of people not reading and comprehending the systems that are being proposed and it's not helping the discussion which in the main is interesting.

Tired and emotional
04/11/2009, 8:36 AM
Bluetonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polster

Tired and emotional

Me or you
04/11/2009, 8:45 AM
Polster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluetonic

Me or you

Me...
04/11/2009, 8:56 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polster

Me...

:) As Bluetonic says its doesnt affect your home BB in the slightest.

It just rewards those who travel regularily ahead of those to travel sometimes who in turn are ahead of those who never travel at all.

The majority of regular travellers are BB''s but there are regular travellers who are not BB's
04/11/2009, 8:58 AM
eaststand85

[QUOTE=SuperDave;1264118] I think it a little unfair to cut off a block booker if one of their tickets is touted. If you get four or five tickets and give it to a friend etc and they then sell it on for over face value, why should you suffer? Moreso, why should the other people who get tickets from you suffer too? Effectively, you are punishing everyone in the block booking for the sins of one person whose actions none of the others can control (especially the others who aren't the main man).[/B] [QUOTE]

[QUOTE=eaststand85;1264072] If those people receiving the large allocations are distributing them legitimately at the moment to the same people each match then they should be able to, and should have no problem with imo, registering those individuals with the FAI who can then take over this task in future and keep an official and accurate record of who gets what and what they do with them. Such a record would help the FAI identify who's most deserving of tickets on an ongoing basis and allocate any that become available to those on the waiting list in a transparent and accountable manner which would eliminate the current confusion and let everyone know where they stand. [QUOTE]

Already pointed out the obvious way in which to deal with this situation. If everyone was registered individually then anyone not touting would be unaffected and only the person who would be punished would be the person doing the touting.
04/11/2009, 9:11 AM
eaststand85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

Large block bookings are generally held by clubs I would have thought. They would (quite reasonably) give tickets to people who put work into the club and not necessarily the same people every match. Outside of those I don't see what difference changing the name on one of someone's current two tickets would make.

As far as I know the clubs receive their own allocations, not as part of the BB scheme? However I could be wrong and if so then obviously any system could allow for large allocations in a club's name (as is done in the GAA & IRFU). The issue is with indivividuals receiving large allocations.

If you read my previous posts you'll see I'm talking about BB'ers who receive large allocations (more than 2 tickets).
04/11/2009, 9:11 AM
Junior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

Junior there are just too many varialbes when counting the home games.............. It is a simle demarcation. If you start bring home games into it it gets to complicated.

I am a waiting lister and am unlikely ever to become a BB as will be the majority of Wl's. From the last 10 away games I am on 3 points after spending considerable money and anual leave following/supporting the team.

Like I said, I do understand that it could get all too complicated but as a once regular home and away fan I dont think it would be fair to marginalise my type from having a chance of away tickets - in a fair system. The fan who travels to all away games or even half of them and no home games would always be way ahead of me in the away ticket allocation. Its devisive in some ways. Away fans treated one way and home fans treated another.

Perhaps Grading Home and Away Games (Some clubs do this in the Premiership- A: - Man U/Chelsea, B: Villa/Everton C: Sunderland/Fulham and so on) The higher points awarded for the less attractive game/venues? Could be based on Seedings for Internationals?

All systems are open to abuse however and it wouldnt stop people buying up tickets for San Marino at Home if it thought it would give them enough points to get a ticket for France away for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

If there are 8500 people who have more than 3 points in the last 10 games then as far as I am concerned they are more entitled to tickets than me. But, I dont think there are and from what is apparent on the various sites is that people who have never travelled, rarely travelled or just Joe Public has been allocated Tickets for France away - which quite frankly is a disgrace

If that is the case - then it is a disgrace. But is that really what has happened with the 8k allocation? Im not sure how the 17k applications were prioritised - how do you?

If you've regularly travelled but sourced your tickets from other avenues than the FAI then you dont have a leg to stand on really - its the way of the football world. Ive travelled to plenty of Celtic matches abroad over the years and never once have I sourced a ticket directly from Celtic - God forbid if we ever got to another european final (cough..cough...) what I would do to try and get a ticket:D

I think some of the suggestions are interesting on here but none tick all the boxes - I doubt that is even possible!
04/11/2009, 9:45 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

Like I said, I do understand that it could get all too complicated but as a once regular home and away fan I dont think it would be fair to marginalise my type from having a chance of away tickets - in a fair system. The fan who travels to all away games or even half of them and no home games would always be way ahead of me in the away ticket allocation. Its devisive in some ways. Away fans treated one way and home fans treated another.

Its similar to the Scots system where home games dont count, for practically all away games the majority of fans have to fly/get a ferry so its a level playing field - if home are included non BB are immediately at a disadvantage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

Perhaps Grading Home and Away Games (Some clubs do this in the Premiership- A: - Man U/Chelsea, B: Villa/Everton C: Sunderland/Fulham and so on) The higher points awarded for the less attractive game/venues? Could be based on Seedings for Internationals?

again to complicated is Paris on a wednesday more difficult / ackward/ expensive /time off than Oslo on a Saturday, What about Riga on a Saturday Bari on a wednesday keep it simple 1 game one point, away friendlies included as they are less supported and gives EVERYBODY a chance to get their foot on the ladder

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

All systems are open to abuse however and it wouldnt stop people buying up tickets for San Marino at Home if it thought it would give them enough points to get a ticket for France away for example.

see random checks and/or ticket collection at destination city in a city centre hotel - no pick up no point and your points revert to zero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

If that is the case - then it is a disgrace. But is that really what has happened with the 8k allocation? Im not sure how the 17k applications were prioritised - how do you? -

since the emails went out last friday the sites including this one have loads of regular travellers who usually got their tickets throught the FAI missed out - they appear to be getting sorted now with sprares from other supporters but you can also see the ones who never travelled before eg querying how do i fill in the form ?what form is this ?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

If you've regularly travelled but sourced your tickets from other avenues than the FAI then you dont have a leg to stand on really - its the way of the football world. Ive travelled to plenty of Celtic matches abroad over the years and never once have I sourced a ticket directly from Celtic - God forbid if we ever got to another european final (cough..cough...) what I would do to try and get a ticket:D

I think some of the suggestions are interesting on here but none tick all the boxes - I doubt that is even possible!

got all my tickets throught the FAI, thankfully I was successfull

I doubt that possible as well but it was deemed the fairest by the majority of Scots and I have yet to see anything better. It certainly beats the present 'system'

If something isnt sorted the next big game the same arguments will start and note for the euros the away allocation is 5% not 10. so imagine 4250 french tickets to distribute, imagine if we qualfy for a tournament on our doorstep England 2018 ?
04/11/2009, 10:29 AM
dynamo kerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

:) As Bluetonic says its doesnt affect your home BB in the slightest.

It just rewards those who travel regularily ahead of those to travel sometimes who in turn are ahead of those who never travel at all.

The majority of regular travellers are BB''s but there are regular travellers who are not BB's

wait- is your system exclusively for away BB tickets? If so - carry on- seems perfectly fair to me.

I also travel home for home games and doubt I could afford away as well (I know I can't)

My main thing is to keep better track of home BB tickets and ensure that the waiting list moves a little faster as opposed to BB changing hands through other means.

Apart from people thinking myself ES and BT are against block booking entirely({which we're not) this is an excellent debate...
04/11/2009, 10:34 AM
Ash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polster

Bring back genesis.

I really cant see what Phil Collins can do about the situation ... :p
04/11/2009, 11:22 AM
Junior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newryrep

Its similar to the Scots system where home games dont count, for practically all away games the majority of fans have to fly/get a ferry so its a level playing field - if home are included non BB are immediately at a disadvantage

I agree with a lot of your points and some kind of points system would definteily seem the right way to go.

However, you keep saying this or that would be too complicated - keep it simple. By doing that you, unfortunately you wont necessarily make it any fairer and you certainly wont get rid of the regular debate of "how I havent got a ticket and such and such has got one" Basically prioritising regular away travellers for away tickets would work well for you but by ignoring regular home attendance and occasional away attendance you are putting the likes of me at an immediate disadvantage.

The fact that everyones slate would need to be wiped clean will also wrangle with some - though I doubt there is anyway around this.

Consultation with other FA's should definitely be sought.

Finally, as an aside - Would anyone else be disappointed if we moved to a Member Swipe Card system? - I like collecting my ticket stubs!!:D
04/11/2009, 11:23 AM
Newryrep

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

wait- is your system exclusively for away BB tickets? If so - carry on- seems perfectly fair to me.

I also travel home for home games and doubt I could afford away as well (I know I can't)

My main thing is to keep better track of home BB tickets and ensure that the waiting list moves a little faster as opposed to BB changing hands through other means.

Apart from people thinking myself ES and BT are against block booking entirely({which we're not) this is an excellent debate...

not sure what you mean DK as there is only a guarantee of tickets if you had the minimun requiremnt of points and there were an excess number of tickets.

eg 8500 tickets availablle

8000 people on the 3 points or more -
12000 people on 2 points or more -

8000 people get 8000 tickets (and get a point)
4000 people go into a ballot for 500 tickets and the lucky 500 get a point)
04/11/2009, 11:29 AM
Junior

Scenario: A few high demand games with low number of tickets and the fans who are succesful in the first ballot will automatically be ahead of the other fans (because they have been awarded a point) for the 2nd game and future games and so on and so on.......

Sorry Im just being a pain in the Ar$e now arent I?
04/11/2009, 11:41 AM
Bluetonic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior

Scenario: A few high demand games with low number of tickets and the fans who are succesful in the first ballot will automatically be ahead of the other fans (because they have been awarded a point) for the 2nd game and future games and so on and so on.......

Sorry Im just being a pain in the Ar$e now arent I?

Not necessarily. If you implement a system that works on averages over two campaigns. High profile games should be awarded less points as there is less motivation going to a high profile game. The top clubs around the world successfully implement systems similar to this.
04/11/2009, 11:58 AM
Greenforever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluetonic

Not necessarily. If you implement a system that works on averages over two campaigns. High profile games should be awarded less points as there is less motivation going to a high profile game. The top clubs around the world successfully implement systems similar to this.

While your ideas sound great, you keep complicating things by wanting to categrise games

A midweek game suits me far better than a weekend game, im the exception to this rule il admit

Would you class Malta in Sept as a low profiel game - it would attract a load of holiday makers who may rarely go to matches

One point per game for ALL away games inc friendlies is simple and fair

On a seperate note do you have tickets for the French games yet?

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