Bohs to go part-time

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26/06/2009, 11:42 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

True but the Drogs stadium was 10m or so on green field site. Across all sports there have few if any greenfield sites. Croke Park & Lansdowne would not have got planning in greenfield site. Somehow planning restrictions (e.g. parking) are very restrictive for stadiums yet huge concerts are allowed in basically the middle of nowhere (Slane) with few restrictions. Not saying concerts should have happen just the different rules.

You can't compare a sports stadium - a piece of permanent infrastructure with regular events and therefore a regular impact on traffic etc - with one off events like concerts held very infrequently at already existing pieces of infratsructure (i.e. Slane).

Only one has a planning impact - the other raises licensing/usage questions, but not planning ones. Slane has already been buiilt.
29/06/2009, 11:44 AM
Ronnie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Your point appears to be supported by the evidence of Dundalks policy and wage bill this season versus last. With no full timers last year the wage bill was circa �10k, and with almost all of this years squad (admitedly smaller in numbers) full time, the wage bill is quoted at �12.5k.

The point has been made by Directors Kevin Holland and Gerry Matthews that the tax implications of part-timers who have other primary income is such that their tax free allowance is swallowed up, and invitably end up getting pushed into a higher tax bracket - hence the wage costs of part timers are relatively high.

I think you miss the point on this - a player should cost his employer a known amount, whether hes full time or part time, 52 weeks or 40 weeks. The tax the club pays varies depending on the players circumstances. The alternative, a nett contract grossed up, has caused huge finanical issues in our league and is one of the reasons why clubs went full time in the first place, but I can't imagine any club would be paying net contracts nowadays.
29/06/2009, 12:08 PM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I've always said infrastructure is the key. Even if the quality of play is not great comfortable surroundings can make up for it. Bigger crowds make average players play better too. Infrastructure is still terrible in this country & will take decades to improve - mainly I think because so difficult to build anything.

if infastructure is the key how come it did'nt work for Shels or Bohs ? Tolka (a few years back) and Dalymount (Jodi stand) are pretty good facilities but did/do not get the crowds.
For years we were told summer football would get the crowds out and this proved to be a myth, I suspect the "build it and they will come" theory to be similar (some small increase but not cost effective).
Fact is that most Irish "supporters" are primarily day trippers and have not got the interest to support a full time League.
29/06/2009, 12:09 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

The alternative, a nett contract grossed up, has caused huge finanical issues in our league and is one of the reasons why clubs went full time in the first place

This has been discussed several times before, and only stupid clubs would go bust paying nett contracts, because it's very simple maths to work out how much it's going to cost in total. In other words, clubs' stupidity saw them hit money troubles, not paying nett contracts. No surprises there.

Clubs went full-time because it's a natural progression, and because there was the possibility of more money from better European results.
29/06/2009, 12:32 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinobohs

if infastructure is the key how come it did'nt work for Shels or Bohs ? Tolka (a few years back) and Dalymount (Jodi stand) are pretty good facilities but did/do not get the crowds.

Tolka is a dump. Dalymount has 1 very good stand but the rest of the ground is derelict.

While I might think Turners Cross is a decent all seater ground in order to attract more casual football supporters we better facilities. Tallaght is a good example but at the moment just one stand. With 2 stands it will start to look like proper stadium.

I am also a firm believer that we need bars in LOI grounds. Alcohol is part of sport in this country.
29/06/2009, 12:52 PM
Duggie

i agree with that facilities are the key. if clubs had nice modern stadiums, 7 - 10,000 seater i believe more people would go along. basically at the minute all you have are fields / kips. turners cross is decent in fairness. a lot of it has to do with perception. take croker just for an example. people mightnt be big gaa or soccer fans but will go just to see the place alone. look at united park in drogheda, carlisle grounds its 2009 and we have grounds like these. joke.

looks like winning the league in ireland will make a club go bust.
29/06/2009, 1:13 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggie

looks like winning the league in ireland will make a club go bust.

Yup, that's what's making all this happen alright.
29/06/2009, 5:50 PM
blackholesun

The key to the Tallaght stadiums success so far is the location, smack bang in the middle of large youngish working class area with excellent transport links.

I am sure other clubs could do just as well with similar facilities in Swords, Blanch or Lucan e.g. Pats, Bohs and Shels are flogging dead horses currently basing themselves in flatland areas in kippy grounds.

bhs
29/06/2009, 7:59 PM
Ezeikial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

I think you miss the point on this - a player should cost his employer a known amount, whether hes full time or part time, 52 weeks or 40 weeks. The tax the club pays varies depending on the players circumstances. The alternative, a nett contract grossed up, has caused huge finanical issues in our league and is one of the reasons why clubs went full time in the first place, but I can't imagine any club would be paying net contracts nowadays.

With all due respect to you Ronnie, I think that I understood the point Pete made, to which I was responding, that part-time is not the only solution!

Of course the club should know what a player will cost them; the simple point being illustrated is that from the evidence available at Dundalk there does not appear to be a large difference in cost between full-time and part-time gross (real) cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I don't think part-time is the only solution as it does not necessarily mean paying lower wages as clubs usually pay a net wage & have the pay the tax on top themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Your point appears to be supported by the evidence of Dundalks policy and wage bill this season versus last. With no full timers last year the wage bill was circa �10k, and with almost all of this years squad (admitedly smaller in numbers) full time, the wage bill is quoted at �12.5k.

The point has been made by Directors Kevin Holland and Gerry Matthews that the tax implications of part-timers who have other primary income is such that their tax free allowance is swallowed up, and invitably end up getting pushed into a higher tax bracket - hence the wage costs of part timers are relatively high.
30/06/2009, 9:23 AM
rerun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggie

i agree with that facilities are the key. if clubs had nice modern stadiums, 7 - 10,000 seater i believe more people would go along.

...but not 7 to 10,000 week in week out. The absolute best a LOI team could hope for would be 5 - 6K per week, and that's on the good weeks.
30/06/2009, 10:40 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Tolka is a dump. Dalymount has 1 very good stand but the rest of the ground is derelict.

While I might think Turners Cross is a decent all seater ground in order to attract more casual football supporters we better facilities. Tallaght is a good example but at the moment just one stand. With 2 stands it will start to look like proper stadium.

I am also a firm believer that we need bars in LOI grounds. Alcohol is part of sport in this country.

I did mention Tolka a couple of years ago BEFORE it was let become run down. Dalyer has one good stand but Tallaght (one stand and nothing else yet) has good facilities ???
Three bars in Dalymount (Jodi stand) two of which are open to fans. Agree RE Turners, Cross decent facilities but again this reconfirms my original point.
30/06/2009, 10:53 AM
passinginterest

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinobohs

Tallaght (one stand and nothing else yet)

Not quite true anymore, the first section of the second stand is up now. I see where you're coming from overall though.

Dalymount still has great potential, although the Jodi probably needs an overhall at this stage along with the rest of the ground. At this stage I think Bohs have to accept Harristown is not going to happen and start looking at ways to keep the club in business and develop a tidy, modern Dalymount.
30/06/2009, 11:38 AM
placid casual

Quote:

Originally Posted by passinginterest

At this stage I think Bohs have to accept Harristown is not going to happen and start looking at ways to keep the club in business and develop a tidy, modern Dalymount.

:p:D:p
30/06/2009, 11:40 AM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by passinginterest

Dalymount still has great potential, although the Jodi probably needs an overhall at this stage along with the rest of the ground. At this stage I think Bohs have to accept Harristown is not going to happen and start looking at ways to keep the club in business and develop a tidy, modern Dalymount.

Presumably they still have the few million non-refunadable deposit to build with.

Oh, I see...
30/06/2009, 11:50 AM
Duggie

Quote:

Originally Posted by passinginterest

Bohs have to accept Harristown is not going to happen and start looking at ways to keep the club in business and develop a tidy, modern Dalymount.

knock 3 sides of it
30/06/2009, 12:16 PM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Presumably they still have the few million non-refunadable deposit to build with.

Oh, I see...

probobly enough to bring Dalymount up to the "stadium of light" standards (about 50 euro required)
30/06/2009, 1:00 PM
Dodge

Except you don't have it.

So there's very little point in getting in a ****ing contest over finances...
30/06/2009, 1:20 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinobohs

probobly enough to bring Dalymount up to the "stadium of light" standards (about 50 euro required)

Well, that just leaves ye a few million short.
30/06/2009, 1:41 PM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Except you don't have it.

So there's very little point in getting in a ****ing contest over finances...

Just a contest about facilities (isnt that what thread was about ?) Dalymount V stadium of Light ? or is it only OK for you to comment on Dalymount ?
30/06/2009, 1:44 PM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Except you don't have it.

So there's very little point in getting in a ****ing contest over finances...

as you mentioned finances I was surprised you did'nt publish Pats accounts on Foot.ie. I recall how much fun you get from these (and boy do Pats make funny reading):D

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