Owen Coyle

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18/05/2009, 4:13 PM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by geysir

Not at all, you were politely brought to task, based on the content of your post, the usual chip laden sarcastic post with opinion based on knowing nothing.

:D
Who can forget that,
I have been presuming to lecture you on Dual Nationality for about 2 years now and with good reason :rolleyes:

There you go again with the 8 minutes.
The country to which he aligned himself in football matters to, is Ireland. He still plays for Ireland. It is an accurate comment to make, that Ireland is his country when it comes to football matters. His nationality is Irish, he holds an Irish passport and is very proud that he came close enough to getting on the WC squad. Doesn't mean that his "Scottishness" is wiped out.

For a dual national yourself you have very little appreciation of the national sentiments of a Dual National and easily sneer at this man's Irishness, a sneer based on "he only played for 8 minutes" while ignoring all the other elements in his life, in Scottish society where Irishness has been engrained for generations.

It's just a significantly irrelevant opinion and probably more appropriate for the playground - a place you probably would feel more at home.

Geysir, you're wasting your time...the likes of EG never take the views of others on board....try to impose their views against the will of others
18/05/2009, 4:15 PM
Gather round

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I just do not see the point of somebody being a member of a forum of their rival

Variously- this is a good forum generally, with regular topical threads about NI football. You could equally ask the Mods why there's an Irish League section?

Unfortunately, the topical threads do sometimes attract witless sh*t-stirring about the NI team and its supporters. You can hardly be surprised when this is answered.

Quote:

I would never join an English forum or a Shamrock Rovers forum. Especially when it leads to threads like these being hi-jacked and ruined

Come on, lighten up. It's just gone off at a tangent. Plenty of threads do this- although I realise the mods on here police it more than on other sites.
18/05/2009, 4:19 PM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gather round

Not so. I was answering your posts (completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread, but hey).

It directly answered your anecdotal claim that Republic of Ireland football is better known abroad than Scottish- which just doesn't ring true in my anecdotal experience. Fans elsewhere in Europe just aren't that interested in either (or Wales or Northern Ireland's), because over a decent length of time (10-15 years at least) we've all tended not to qualify for tournaments. Ireland's most famous ever footballer, George Best, got a respectful but brief obituary in German football magazine, in contrast to the reams of coverage in all British and Irish media.

Abroad just ain't that interested, you know.

One, last week. With due respect to Duff and Finnan, their exploits in the CL haven't added as much to RoI's profile in the competition, as Scotland having a team in the group stages most years has.

Again, I like Robbie Keane, but steady on. He doesn't play in the CL, and his World Cup appearance was in 2002. And see point about George Best above.

Your "doubt" isn't based on anything other than being an RoI fan who talks about RoI players when watching RoI abroad, is it? I mean, fair enough, but it's a bit limiting when dismissing other teams?

At risk of repeating myself, it was a long time ago and it wasn't sustained?

No, read more carefully and you'll see I disagree with all your points quoted above. Which I'm only making to answer your digs at NI, of course.

I went by train to both actually (and similarly to the U-21 game in Germany), so met plenty of locals on the journey, as well as in the pub before and after the game.

I'm not claiming that you're dishonest (although I take your point that as we're two anonymous guys on the internet, the whole exchange could be invented). Just that you're really offering nothing more than anecdote to back up your bias.

Most would agree that 1 September 2001 was eight years ago. And you haven't corrected any other 'factual' errors.

Do better. Or stick to what you know.

I, for one do not agree that 8 Sept 2001 was eight years ago
18/05/2009, 4:21 PM
tetsujin1979

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

First generation? Seven siblings? Grew up in an "Irish" area of Britain?

Sounds very much to me like the Gallens of Shepherds Bush. And as we know, all of them chose to represent ROI.

Except the most talented of them, Kevin, who perhaps considering himself good enough to go all the way in international football, chose the country of his birth.

Gallen was told to declare for England by his manager at the time (think it was Gerry Francis, but I'm not sure) on the basis that the club would be able to sell him for more money
18/05/2009, 4:32 PM
livehead1

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Gallen was told to declare for England by his manager at the time (think it was Gerry Francis, but I'm not sure) on the basis that the club would be able to sell him for more money

Look, don't let facts get in the way of a slanging match!
18/05/2009, 4:43 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

EG, you really are a bitter person....can't resist digs at ROI. sad, narrow minded t wat

How was what I posted "having a dig" at the ROI?

Having followed football closely for decades now, including having met my share of footballers and managers etc, I have come to appreciate that things aren't always what they seem in the game.

One aspect of this is that international football, which most of us fans would give our right arm to play (even for 8 minutes!), does not necessarily hold the same allure for professionals, as we might think. Indeed, as footballers earn ever more money from their clubs, the significance of international football for some becomes correspondingly diminished (do the names "Stephen Ireland" or "Roy Carroll" ring any bells, to take two examples close to home?).

And this trend is becoming increasingly pronounced when it comes to international management (imo). For whilst there is no doubt that 20 or 30 years ago, this was seen as the pinnacle of football for any manager, that is no longer the case (imo).

Which, to get back to the subject of Owen Coyle, is why when others saw how well he was doing and started imagining him in the ROI role, I was of the opinion that they have been being premature and presumptious, that's all.

But hey, if you want to ascribe every other malign motive to me, irrespective of what I am actually posting, go ahead, knock yourself out. If nothing else, it might hide the embarrassment of some of the ill-thought out tripe which you post...
18/05/2009, 4:46 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Gallen was told to declare for England by his manager at the time (think it was Gerry Francis, but I'm not sure) on the basis that the club would be able to sell him for more money

I'm well aware that QPR pushed him in that direction, but he could still have resisted.
18/05/2009, 4:50 PM
NeilMcD

[QUOTE=Gather round;1162545]V

Unfortunately, the topical threads do sometimes attract witless sh*t-stirring about the NI team and its supporters. You can hardly be surprised when this is answered.

This is the point its an Republic of Ireland, we should be able to **** stir about our rival esp in the National Team forum. That is what I said before, We should not be PC about it. I would not expect a Shamrock Rovers website to be polite about Bohs. I just do not see why someone would want to defend their team on a rivals website.
18/05/2009, 5:02 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I just do not see the point of somebody being a member of a forum of their rival I would never join an English forum or a Shamrock Rovers forum. Especially when it leads to threads like these being hi-jacked and ruined.

This is one of two football forums I browse and contribute to (more than once in a Blue Moon, at any rate).

That is because it covers areas of football which particularly interest me (Irish, international, Irish League etc), generally has a good level of debate, and is well-moderated. Therefore so long as I stay within the Rules, I am as entitled to post as much as you or anyone else.

Speaking of which, when you bitch about this thread being "ruined" or "hi-jacked" etc, are you referring to my posts? For when someone opens a thread about an ex-ROI international player who is making a name for himself as a club manager, and wonders whether he might one day not make a good ROI manager, was it not entirely relevant for me to question whether he might want to manage ROI?

Considering I gave reasons and examples to back up my initial thesis (whether you agree with them or not), it clearly was a pertinent question for me to ask.

Of course, when "the usual suspects" then chose that as their cue to make childish anti-NI digs at me (and Gather Round, when he weighed in), then I ought to have risen above that, but no matter, the Mods took action to delete the offending posts, which was fine by me.

So there you have it, Mr McD, do you have any substantive comment to add to this thread over which you grieve so earnestly? For example, do you think Coyle might one day be interested in applying for the ROI job, or accept that he might possibly consider he has "bigger fish to fry"?
18/05/2009, 5:11 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

This is one of two football forums I browse and contribute to (more than once in a Blue Moon, at any rate).

That is because it covers areas of football which particularly interest me (Irish, international, Irish League etc), generally has a good level of debate, and is well-moderated. Therefore so long as I stay within the Rules, I am as entitled to post as much as you or anyone else.

Speaking of which, when you bitch about this thread being "ruined" or "hi-jacked" etc, are you referring to my posts? For when someone opens a thread about an ex-ROI international player who is making a name for himself as a club manager, and wonders whether he might one day not make a good ROI manager, was it not entirely relevant for me to question whether he might want to manage ROI?

Considering I gave reasons and examples to back up my initial thesis (whether you agree with them or not), it clearly was a pertinent question for me to ask.

Of course, when "the usual suspects" then chose that as their cue to make childish anti-NI digs at me (and Gather Round, when he weighed in), then I ought to have risen above that, but no matter, the Mods took action to delete the offending posts, which was fine by me.

So there you have it, Mr McD, do you have any substantive comment to add to this thread over which you grieve so earnestly? For example, do you think Coyle might one day be interested in applying for the ROI job, or accept that he might possibly consider he has "bigger fish to fry"?

I was not specifially referring to your posts but you seemed to think I was. I was referring to them all and to be honest I am as bad as you now as I am joining in this debate.

Anyway I think Owen Coyle is doing a good job as manager of Burnley and he seems to like progressive football which is attractive to watch and he is doing it on a tight budget. He seems to bringing out the best in a young group of players. I think its fair enough for our supports to wonder and dream out loud and hope that one day he becomes a top manager or a manager who is interested in managing the country he played for.

Unfortunately this last bit then gets side tracked into an issue about nationality and cultural heritage etc and gets away from the facts that Owen Coyle is doing a good job and some Irish fans would like to see him as manager of our team one day. The good thing about forums is that you can have a forum for collective dreaming. As I said I am sure on a Rovers forum they are shouting from the rooftops about Saturdays Result anad game and fair play to them. I am not about to go now and try to pour cold water on their celebrations and offer some sort of cold light of day analysis of the game for them.
18/05/2009, 5:12 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Unfortunately, the topical threads do sometimes attract witless sh*t-stirring about the NI team and its supporters. You can hardly be surprised when this is answered.

This is the point its an Republic of Ireland, we should be able to **** stir about our rival esp in the National Team forum. That is what I said before, We should not be PC about it. I would not expect a Shamrock Rovers website to be polite about Bohs. I just do not see why someone would want to defend their team on a rivals website.

It's not true anyway. EG only gets slagged when he comes on passing his snide comments about the ROI team and posting links to rankings when (and only when) NI are above the ROI as he did at the beginning of this thread when he and not anybody else initially 'hijacked' the topic. When NI are not above the ROI in the rankings I've noticed he tends to be very quiet.

I personally couldn't care less about the NI team and only bring them up when EG does one of the above as do most of the **** stirrers (described as such by Gather round).

It's the old NI hardliners us against the world attitude. What Gr fails to see is that EG is the biggest **** stirrer on these boards. He only posts negative comments and put downs about our team, I can't remember anything positive in all his posts.

You only have to have a glance at ourweecountry.co.uk to see how obsessed they are about the ROI team. I doubt anyone here would mention NI if EG disappeared.
18/05/2009, 5:12 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I just do not see why someone would want to defend their team on a rivals website.

Except that the NI/ROI case is not like that of eg Shams and Bohs.

For one thing, Shams don't want to "take over" the Bohs, nor do they wish to "poach" Bohs' players from under their nose.

Sure, I'm touchy when it comes to defending my team. But tbh, there's not a hell of a sight to be gained by my defending them on an NI forum, where everyone else is pretty much agreed.

Far better, imo, to try to disabuse the fans of the team which threatens us, to one degree or another, of some of the misconceptions and myths which some of them (ROI fans) seem to hold about us.
18/05/2009, 5:14 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Except that the NI/ROI case is not like that of eg Shams and Bohs.

For one thing, Shams don't want to "take over" the Bohs, nor do they wish to "poach" Bohs' players from under their nose.

Sure, I'm touchy when it comes to defending my team. But tbh, there's not a hell of a sight to be gained by my defending them on an NI forum, where everyone else is pretty much agreed.

Far better, imo, to try to disabuse the fans of the team which threatens us, to one degree or another, of some of the misconceptions and myths which some of them (ROI fans) seem to hold about us.

Thats like a Zyonist going on to a Palesinian website trying to change their views. If you are so touchy do not go on to a rival website simple as that. It wont be good for your health. If I was Jewish I would not start posting on New Nazi forums trying to defend my race.
18/05/2009, 5:27 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Thats like a Zyonist going on to a Palesinian website trying to change their views. If you are so touchy do not go on to a rival website simple as that. It wont be good for your health. If I was Jewish I would not start posting on New Nazi forums trying to defend my race.

Er, I do not consider myself to be the NI equivalent of a "Zionist", nor this to be a forum for the "Neo-Nazi" wing of the ROI fanbase.
And my health is quite fine, thank you very much.

As for "changing peoples views", from those people who are kind enough to have pressed the "Thanks" button, I would hope that at least some posters appreciate my posts from time to time.

I know I have certainly learned a lot from very many of the posters on here, in turn.

Anyhow, should you have any interest in international football etc, rather than advising that you should eg not go near OWC, on the contrary, my view is "the more the merrier" - it makes for lively debate.
18/05/2009, 5:30 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

For one thing, Shams don't want to "take over" the Bohs, nor do they wish to "poach" Bohs' players from under their nose.

We've a panzer division waiting on the border ready to go on command. Once it crosses you will all be forcibly baptised to the true faith and made sing Amhr�n na bhFiann at the top of your voices in Gaelic until you can recite it word for word.

Replace poach with "allow their citizens born in the six counties to play for them" and you've something closer to the truth.
18/05/2009, 5:31 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

I doubt anyone here would mention NI if EG disappeared.

Oh I dunno - SkStu even started a thread entitled "Northern Ireland".

Or was that why he was suspended? ;)
18/05/2009, 5:32 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Er, I do not consider myself to be the NI equivalent of a "Zionist", nor this to be a forum for the "Neo-Nazi" wing of the ROI fanbase.
And my health is quite fine, thank you very much.

As for "changing peoples views", from those people who are kind enough to have pressed the "Thanks" button, I would hope that at least some posters appreciate my posts from time to time.

I know I have certainly learned a lot from very many of the posters on here, in turn.

Anyhow, should you have any interest in international football etc, rather than advising that you should eg not go near OWC, on the contrary, my view is "the more the merrier" - it makes for lively debate.

No thanks I spend enough time posting on my own teams forum never mind going near anybody elses. Anyway my last post on the matter. I really hope that Owen Coyles continues to progress as a manager and if he applies for the job and is the best man for it I hope gets to manage the country he played for as a player.
18/05/2009, 5:33 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Oh I dunno - SkStu even started a thread entitled "Northern Ireland".

Or was that why he was suspended? ;)

Hopefully it was. I've been suspended for less.
18/05/2009, 5:35 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngirish

Replace poach with "allow their citizens born in the six counties to play for them" and you've something closer to the truth.

Your "allow" is my "poach".

Which I always thought was what this type of forum was all about. For I, for one, see little point in contributing to a "debate" [sic] which never gets any further than everyone agreeing how great they all are...
18/05/2009, 5:47 PM
youngirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Your "allow" is my "poach".

Which I always thought was what this type of forum was all about. For I, for one, see little point in contributing to a "debate" [sic] which never gets any further than everyone agreeing how great they all are...

I agree, however, a little impartiality every now and then doesn't go amiss instead of the NI against the ROI attitude that prevails in many of your posts imo.

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