did you read my post! the point is that McGrath was getting MOM performances at THAT time - hence he was ready for the Macedonia game - I know he wouldn't have played on too long after that but the point is a manager should use the best thats available and Harte in CD was proven not to be and badly so, McGrath even to play in one game for us wouldnt have been worse than Harte at that timeQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
if mcgrath was still the best option he would have been picked. its the managers opinion that counts and god bless your memory if you can remember that mcgrath was actually fit enough for those matches you say harte replaced him forQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
edit. just came accross this article. it appears that he was actually injured for the two games you refer to:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/r...t-1267698.html
jesus h chriss - yeah cause football is just like that!!!!! We are talking about Mick Macca here you knowQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
And yes i do remember cause a) I am a big McGrath fan and b) i cant get that terrible header out of my head!!!!!
Football can be funny like that - some of us can be cynical to the end and have very long memories, very long ones!:)
refer to my edited post for reasons why he was not in the two squads you refer to. he personally agreed he was not fit enough to play romania and pulled out with an achilles injury just before macedoniaQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Back to Irwin.
As far as my faulty memory goes, his lowish cap total was not just down to McCarthy. He could have been brought into the senior squad earlier by Charlton and could/should haven been on the plane to Italia 90. Four years later and he could not get in the team for the 2nd round defeat to Holland. I was never of the opinion that Phelan was a better left back nor was Garry Kelly a better right back than Dennis.
Denis Irwin had not even been capped by the time the 1990 WC finals were played. Although he had been playing well for Oldham at the time and really only came into prominence in the FA Cup semi final games that April against ManU., I don't think at the time he was ahead of Morris or Staunton and even though Chris Hughton was coming to the end of his career, he probably deserved his squad place ahead of Irwin.Quote:
Originally Posted by fergalr
In 1994 WCF, Irwin played in the first 2 games against Italy and Mexico. I may be wrong, but I thought he was injured for the game aganst Norway and was replaced by Gary Kelly, who then held onto his place against Holland.
he was suspended. picked up a 2nd yellow for taking all of about 9 secs to take a throw in v mexicoQuote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Good one. Knew there was something but could not remember what.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Agree. He is a total disaster as a manger though and is a bit of an arse from all accounts, my old fella met him in Italy last week and said he was up his own hole and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbod
Own Coyle was teh forst name that came to mind for me, I thought he should have gone to US '94 once Quinn was stopped from going, especially as CAs was carrying a knock. He could have given us something different.
Sheridan could have had more caps but he was one of the few that were in all of the 88, 90 and 94 squads (Thursday teaser, can anyone name the rest?).
Clint should still be in the squad, Trundle should have had a cap, Delap should have more caps for me given some that have played in midfield in recent years. Liam Lawrence should definitely have a cap by now, you could go on all day.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal rover
Two match ban (reduced from 3 on appeal) and then injury put paid to that, there's a bit of a myth going on that Charlton shafted Brady out of playing in a major finals but a myth is all it is (probably due to the uncerimonious way he hauled him off against Germany in the friendly), by the time Italia 90 came round Brady was nearly permenantly injured and wasn't worth a place in the squad, Gary Waddock was the man to feel shafted that year if anyone.
Bit harsh on the Doc, gave his all and scored a few important goals.
Again that's not what actually happened, he brought Irwin on and told him to 'prove me wrong' for leaving him out. A bit of a tactless effort at a gee up maybe but totally different from telling him to prove himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
More spin from the Man U anti MM mafia that story.
Keane's end is well documented already and Aldo and McGrath were well past their best, sometimes managers have to make harsh decision especially when it's with regard to old team mates that would have been friends. The fact that they'd have viewed McCarthy as a mate explains a degree of the biterness that Aldo and MCGarth felt when they were no longer needed. For the record I'd have brought Aldo on in that game referred to but he was well past his best at that stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
In fairness, it wasn't a great header but Roy Keane's missed penalty in that game was just as damaging if not more so and no one ever seems to remember that. It was immaterial anyway as we came 2nd in the group and never got close to challenging for first.
Packie BonnerQuote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Kevin Moran
Paul McGrath
Ray Houghton
John Aldridge
Tony Cascarino
David Kelly
Correct! It's usually Sheridan and Kelly that people struggle with to be honest.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Its an old question. People also usually include Steve Staunton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
It is, think I first heard it just under 15 years ago!
Dave Langan but that was entirely through injuries.
yeah i understand all that - but sometimes you have to work with what you got - and if the choice is a very bad Harte and a knackered McGrath (who was still putting out the MOTM performances in the PL) i would go with McGrath. I think in Int football you should take every game as they come.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
As for Aldo (correct me if Im wrong) but wasnt he still scoring the odd goal for tranmere - and again Lithuania 0 Ireland 0 in Lansdowne road
By the way what about Tommy Coyne - he actually went to the WC Cup and palyed against ItalY!!!!!!!!!!!! - or did i dream that?
He did. He also played against Mexico and Holland in those finals.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
I know what you mean but sometimes you have to build for the future, had we qualified for WC 98 it's unlikely McGarth would have been fit so the logic would have been to try and blood a sucessor. Harte wasn't that bad at that stage as is being made out, naive and inexperienced yes but he was doing alright when given a chance a Leeds and was up to the level of making the PFA team of the year a couple of years later (albeit at full back). Centre half was a problem position for us at the time, all our big hitters in that position had grown old together (McGrath, Moran, O'Leary and McCarthy himself) and bar Babb no one was really coming through (see Kerneghan's caps total for proof). You could argue that a group in which we weren't looking like getting close to winning but had 2nd pretty much nailed on would be the ideal time to blood younger players.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
And as I said I agree about Aldo and would have put him on myself. I also think McCarthy made a number of errors in that campaign due to his own inexperience. That said, we still finished as high as we ever had before or have since in a qualifying group bar Euro 88.
Dunno what relevance Tommy Coyne has to this discussion btw....