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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Paul O'Connell and Jerry Flannery were both educated in Limerick at Ard Scoil Ris and St. Munchins respectively. These are not in gaeltacht areas.
Considering you consistently use false facts how do you expect anybody to believe your analysis?
Probably see's Ard Scoil Ris (Rice High School) and makes an assumption as our Ciaran is oft knwon to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by gspain
His culture afterall is rugby players who live in his community. Do you recall his assessment of Keith Fahey? Keith was if I need to remind you part of St Patrick's Ath, a community football (soccer) club based in Inchicore, Dublin, a club totally intergrated with it's hinterland.
Why countenance his inaccurate drivel, feeding trolls results in them returning
PMSL, contradicting yourself again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Great day last Saturday,but compare the National reaction now to Italia '90 ,was O Connell St deserted on Saturday at 5pm? was there scenes of unbridled public celebration on the streets? did 500,000 turnout to welcome the team home?...well no, no and about 18,000 actually.The rugby definitely gave us all a lift, as did Bernard dunne, but winning an annual tournament limited to teams from 4 juristinctions is well short of "unbelievable"
It would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
Why don't you go and do that and report back here with your results when you're finished.
And get TV3 to capture screen shots and give an authentic voice-over.
1 Whats your point?? If you feel the rugby team represent your culture more, fair enough but that doesnt mean that on an objective level they are more "Irish" or "representative of our country" than the football team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
2 Ok, well he did have the choice to stay with Ulster,they are arguably a team on the up now. Anyways your response no way justifys your original point.
3 you've already been proven wrong on this. I speak Irish too, big deal!! probably just as good as Flannery or O'C, but neither speak it fluently as you first said. In fact Stephen and Noel Hunt probably speak Irish as 'fluently' as those two. Anyways i didnt ask what players speak Irish, i asked for the players that speak "fluent" Irish as you stated there were. Either way, Its a bit of an irrelevant issue in the context of the debate.
In fairness to Ciaran, I think I may have been the first here just to throw out the remark that maybe people relate more to the rugby guys because they're based here primarily and aren't pampered superstar millionaires secondly.
It's not being "more representative" it's more being "easier to connect with". In consideration to responses like jbyrne's I'll very happily concede that it's probably not where they're based or even born, but rather how hard they try that keeps the connection. Either way, I think none of us can argue that the connection that used to exist between fan and team in football was broken some time back, though I think it's returning and will return quicker if success is seen.
With regard to Kilbane in particular I said a while back that I think he's the finest character of anyone to wear the green of his/our generation. I think so strongly about this I'm happy to repeat it, and also to extend it to the rugby code too. I just wish he was a better left back :)
I think its been a long time since we had a squad full of pride for jersey & this has nothing to do with where people are born, We have the likes of Stephen Ireland who don't want to play on the back the Roy Keane saga. The players are also basically only tourists in this country. Of course if they qualify for the World Cup that may all be forgotten but I can't see the buzz from previous WC coming back for a long time as seems people got this idea we could win it in & everything else is now just second best.
C'mon Ciaran, I threw you a lifebelt but you've just punctured it.
That post makes no sense. Whatsoever.
Personally, I feel like I relate to the likes of Robbie Keane, Shay Given, Kevin Kilbane, and Damien Duff much more than I ever will with most of the rugby team. I really don't get this idea that they are millionaire mercenaries who don't care about playing for their country. Watch any of the football team after a defeat in a big game and the disappointment is etched all over their faces.
I'm someone who came from a football supporting background but went to a rugby school because my parents felt I'd get a better education out of it. Rugby is the sport of choice for these schools because you can include fat kids, thin kids, slow kids in a team and everyone can play without having to demonstrate any great ability at that level. I just never got it - I was spending my Sundays at Milltown (showing my age now) and trained with the only football team in the school.
Ciaran made a point about TV coverage of rugby being more than for the LoI. That was always true going way back to the 80s when Sports Stadium on Saturday afternoons showed live rugby games with no attendances when Rovers were dominating the domestic landscape. It said more about the production staff in RTE sport than it did about the relative popularity of the sports and it still does.
I've been going to football Internationals since I was 6 and nothing else even comes close. I think that's just me - I'm a football person pure and simple and I think there are more committed football fans in the country that there are committed rugby fans. I have no doubt the event-junkies will switch to rugby for a while but I still agree with some of the other posters that qualification for South Africa would result in a much greater level of hysteria and genuine Irish pride than we've seen this week.
No doubt he did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
And why did the above players leave Ireland as children? Was it not to advance their careers, for a place in a decent team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
I have no doubt that if there existed a competition in football where Irish club sides were as successful as Munster are in rugby (and the other provinces to their lesser extents) and with wages which were as competitive as Munster's are, we would see a lot more Irish football players based in this country.
Also, if the Heineken Cup competition was to end for some reason and Irish rugby was to go back to its somewhat impoverished AIL state while the rest of Europe continued as they are now, many Munster players would be off to more rewarding pastures.
'The average Irish person is very patriotic and we do follow our sport very well, no matter what sport it is. 'I certainly was a keen fan of the rugby on Saturday and was very proud to see them lifting the trophy. It sent tingles down my spine."
andrews comment, love that.
however not so sure about this:
'I am sure likewise they will be watching our two games and wishing us all the best.'
Rugby in Ireland was on an even keel with the rest of europe from the start, when it went from being amateur to professional, and the IRFU reacted well to this, by keeping the feeders to province. They kept all their players at home and paid the same wages relative to other countries i.e. England and France, they made a point of keeping their best players in Ireland, and it has paid off 10 fold. Irish teams have been very successful in the Heineken cup, their wages have been as good as any other country and their chances of playing top class international rugby have also increased. Their is no reason for the players to leave IReland, and the IRFU must be commended for getting their house in order from the very start. This has never been the case with soccer in this country, I can remember my uncle(almost 70 now) telling me of when he wrote to matt busby as a very young child asking him to come over and watch him and give him a trial(:D), point is its been a goal of all irish youngsters for generations to play abroad in England. The FAI were never on a level footing and for things to change at this stage it would be very difficult. Hopefully it will come about that a team(s) from the LOI will progress to CL proper and then the FAI will capitalise on this no-end.
I think it goes beyond the simple question of pride your jersey. Everyone playing for Ireland has pride, that can't be questioned.
Look, I feverishly support both soccer & rugby, but against the two sports I am slowly drifting away from soccer as a passion. Why? Because I am sick to the back teeth of the cheating, gamesmanship & physical / verbal abuse the referees get on a match by match basis. The concept of respect and decency has disappeared from the game - completely in some quarters - and it's hard for myself to respect and identify with a group of players who think nothing of abusing the laws for their own gain. Or manhandling the referee 'cos they can. Granted it's not widespread and the Irish players are as honest as they get these days in soccer, but it's hard to justify the attitudes. Talking about the "passion of the game" just can't cut it.
Contrast that with rugby, where you have men weighing in at 100Kg or so being told off like little schoolboys by a referee who commands the pitch. There's no cheating, abuse (hell there's no swearing as I recall Darcy getting threatened with a yellow card for his language) & the law is applied equally and ruthlessly. Even after the game you have citations to ensure some justice is done. It's just a different attitude altogether. Now granted, rugby's a potentially more dangerous sport so the laws have to be strict or else the injuries could be dreadful, but the on-pitch ref, linesmen & TV ref have genuine authority and are not afraid to show it. "Yes sir" chirps O'Driscoll when Ireland get blown up for a penalty. Does Robbie Keane display such composure (not picking on Keane specifically, just that he's a bit more mouthy of the Irish players).
The increased interest in rugby is showing more people the difference in attitudes between the two sports & soccer's coming off as a very petulant game full of whiners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
thats rubbish man - just proves they went to better (fee paying) schools where irish was taught well , and not with the odd punch like in my old school
as for football going down the pan (re another poster) - ie cheating and lack of respect - yes it is definitely - but to counter that why not then support grassroots football and the LOI - do somethiing about it then (and dont be a fairweather fan)
I like all sports but cant drop football as my passion - it cant be done, no matter what (even cheating italians winning the last world cup - i still follow the game)
Neither are gaelscoils. Just give up. You can't have any credibility left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaran
I honestly think you could count every Rovers (or other LOI team) attendee from my school - Terenure - on the fingers of one hand. I was one of 3 that I knew of and it was a big school! Despite being a rugby school, Terenure was far "earthier" than the Dublin east coast rugby schools or Clongowes etc. I'd say Belvedere was similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
My father's brother was a co-founder of Terenure RFC, my dad played for them and also played tennis for Ireland. He was told that if he left Terenure, a then junior club, for Lansdowne, he'd have been Ireland full back but he stayed. What happened me? I grew up instinctively with a love for football & golf! My dad would take me to Lakelands as a nipper and I'd turn my back to get a peek at the past pupils football team on the other pitches if they were playing!
I'm not knocking rubgy at all as I love watching it (except that the rugby crowd in UCD were awful) but I prefer the football. Not science, just instinct.
Stutts I think its what you feel more comfortable with to be honest, IM sure you may have been a bit rebellious also as a kid and therefore going against the crowd i.e. supporting soccer, was something you did....i could be wrong but just a guess. Especially if you went to DCU for dyslexics, then your experience of ruggerheads and the mounties that follow them (or fall for them maybe...) would have put you off greatly. Did it upset you they got all the girls and not you?! :P :D
I experienced both having a brother and neighbours who all played rugby but were down to earth(and going out with an 'anville, who introduced me to "that scene"), and having the soccer crowd who were just easy going country lads who knew no better i spose, but naturally prefered soccer.
As I said, just instinct. But yes, the rugger lads getting the good looking girls still rankles. I was left with the fat goths with purple lipstic and knee high docs.