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Get off the stage BP, most Sinn Fein "activists" (I'm sure you've met as many as I have) wouldn't know the difference between Marx & Engels and Marks & Spencer. Their ideology is based on racial antagonism and ethnic nationalism. And the fact that they've been complicit in the murders of so many people makes them functionally worse by orders of magnitude to the BNP.
I'm not going to defend SF at all but its just plain wrong to put them in the same bracket as fascists. PIRA restricted the majority of their killings to security forces of a nation they were at war with (Numbers of sectarian killings are proportionally very low when compared with the loyalists) and the type of Ireland that SF claimed they wanted before they sold out wasn't one where people would be discriminated against on the basis of race. Yes I have met many SF members and they are a diverse lot. Some as you say haven't a clue but I've known ones who genuinely believed in Socialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
And a debate in UCD was broken up by some anti-fascist group. This could go around in circles forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Well, that's OK then.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
What were they doing in a nationalist party then? Socialism and nationalism are incompatible. PIRA had no mandate to go to war with anyone.
Selective quoting is unfair and changes the meaning of my post. As for the debate broken up by Antifa? Was that the Irving one? If so, justified. He's an unabashed Nazi organiser and proven liar who shouldn't be given a platform. If people want to spout ill informed racist views, let them and we'll argue against them but if you start trying to organise white supremacist groups who's purpose is to violently target people on the basis of race then you will be stopped in your tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
The BNP was infiltrated by all sorts of liberal pinko filth years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
I hear they hardly even beat people up anymore.
Isn't it amazing how socialists are so darn facist sometimes?? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Or break up the debate.........Quote:
If people want to spout ill informed racist views, let them and we'll argue against them
I agree, but not everyone does. If you remember the old An Phoblacht masthead it read "For a thirty two county Socialist Republic". Some people confuse the quite correct policy of self-determination with nationalism and therefore pursue a political dead end by fusing nationalism and socialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
How do you explain the fact that people were queueing up to join in the late 60's/early 70's? Their mandate as it were, was the call from the Catholic working class communities to defend them against loyalist pogroms and state repression. Their war might have been futile, it may have been a tactical dead end, but there was widespread support for it. One of my earliest political memories was the hungerstrikes and I remember the widespread support the hunger-strikers had down here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
I always considered politics to be horse-shoe shaped. If you go far around one way you'll meet some lads who went the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I hark back to a more innocent time when right and left wing referred to economic systems.
I'm not facist. When I'm drunk especially, faces cease to matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Its still what its about but Fascists want to violently wipe out the left, divide workers along racial lines and crush democratic rights. Stopping them from organising is a duty for any Socialist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
Where as socialists want to attack university debates and conduct sectarian killings. I recommend you look further into my horse shoe theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
What else do Socialists do??Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
There's a reason why the BNP are winning council seats all over England and the far left are a laughing stock.
Er, what? Thats the dumbest post ever on foot.ie and thats saying something!Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
No arguments there. Which is why fighting fascism has to be primarily about building a strong left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I bow to your superior intellect.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Well played.
Need me to spell it out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
1. To equate shutting down a debate where an invited guest's intention is to organise fascists to wipe out democratic rights, persecute people on the basis of race and sexuality, with the actual attempt to perpetrate those crimes is ludicrous. Its like saying someone trying to stop drug dealers selling in their neighborhood is as bad as the drug dealer.
2. What Socialists want to conduct sectarian killings? Is it all Socialists? Were the PIRA exlicitly socialist and did I say they were? Did I not agree that nationalism and socialism are mutually exclusive?
yeah yeah but heh we are a republic now - funny how the English just handed it to us - oh no wait............:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheridan
Sf dont tend to do well in south dublin anyway;)
What do they want, our everlasting thanks? Tell it to the family of men like Patsy Gillespie. Not often I agree with Sheridan, but I'm four square behind him on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
No and I didn't say it was right, I was just pointing out the lunacy of equating them with the BNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maribor
The partial quote is a little unfair Maribor. I'm sure from what he's said that BP in no way condones the activities of the IRA in any of it's guises. Nor do I. I think the distinction he is making is between two groups, two ideaologys actually, where one group see themselves as freedom fighters attempting to subvert an illegitimate state, an occupying force etc and the other see themselves as a watchdog and as defenders of a state that they claim is being undermined from within by assorted auslanders and their treasonous homegrown liberal helpers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maribor
The BNP may not be involved in an orchestrated violent campaign but make no mistake -the logical consequence of implementing their policies is violence and intimidation. No Asian, no Afro-Carribean, no Bangladeshi, indeed no Paddy of British birth is going to conclude that the BNPs 'Homeward Bound' manifesto is for them. They're all going to have to be 'Persuaded' that it's in their interests to go pack their gear.