The "Ultra" Culture

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Originally Posted by GenerationXI

Yeah this is utterly retarded to be honest. Rambling Along dislikes kids who think they're hard and want to fight other kids and the more cerebral of us agree prima facie with that while the more intellectually challenged have tried to grapple with their own sense of identity, namely, the quandry presented by trying to balance being cool with being a moron. I refrain from tossing out pen and sword metaphors here, but to echo the sentiments of most of the more coherent posters and condense the corpus of argument into one simple maxim for the mongoloids to understand: Violence = Bad.

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1. What has this got to do with the Ultras scene in Ireland?

2. Are you Rico in disguise?

GenerationXI you haven't a clue:rolleyes: I don't see why non ultras get so worked up about groups of lads using the word ultras when it's none of there concern. If you're not part of the scene you won't get it and as for the people who use wikipedia to define the ultras mentality all I can say is :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Schumi

Really? Have you not read threads on this website before? :p

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Touche! I should know better by now for sure. :p

How a UCD fan can give anyone grief about how they support their team is unbelievable!

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Originally Posted by brianw82

To me, it seems like people watched Ardal O'Hanlon's "Leagues Apart", specifically the episode on the Rome Derby and thought, "I'll have a piece of that!" and called their supporters groups "X Ultras"

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BTW, meant to say earlier, there have been Ultras groups in Ireland for over ten years. SEI and SRFC Ultras were the first afaik and obviously weren't influenced by Ardal O'Hanlon! :rolleyes:

I think that before people start posting rubbish, they should make sure they know what they are talking about.

Ultra culture in its essence is quite an admirable thing for a club to have, and I mean the Ultra culture without violence. If every team was to have large bands of fans that put time and effort into tifo displays, never sat down, and sang for their team for 90 minutes home and away no matter what the score I think football would be in a much better place. We have to remember that not ALL ultras are hooligans too. I realise that the like of the Italian 'Ultras' have scared off families and normal supporters from going to games for fear of violence and intimidation which has led to a huge drop in ticket sales for Serie A & B, I even have a mate who lives in Rome, is a huge Lazio fan, sits in Curva Nord, holds a season ticket but STILL picks his games carefully and never messes with the irriducibili. I think it's ridiculous. I support a Swedish team ,Djurgården, and although they do have a firm, they're ultras are non violent and brilliant supporters, I've been to games, home and away, and never failed to be impressed by their commitment to their team, I think if ultras could be more like that we'd all enjoy going to games a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Red Star

I don't see why non ultras get so worked up about groups of lads using the word ultras when it's none of there concern. If you're not part of the scene you won't get it and as for the people who use wikipedia to define the ultras mentality all I can say is :rolleyes:

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Firstly, the idea of an open forum is for people to air their opinions on things which are essentially none of their concern. If the opposite was true then people would confine themselves to their own clubs' threads. Basically, the reason people find the use of the word laughable is because it's taken almost completely out of context in Ireland.

I've never used wikipedia as a source for a definition of ultras. But common sense and reading books about the culture in, inter alia, Italy, Germany, Britain and Eastern Europe, aswell as South America would tell anyone with opposable thumbs that the groups in those areas bare ABSOLUTELY NO RESEMBLANCE to the 'ultras' in Ireland. Thus, it is one thing to adopt the moniker of a group of people whose behaviour one is mimicking, it is another entirely to take something, which by many people's admission, is vastly different and apply the same label.

This argument is basically about terminology and you can't expect us pedants not to get worked up over it. It is illogical to spawn a group out of nothing and adopt the label of another. This is why, for example, there are no NAZIs today - to call anyone a NAZI is to desregard the fact that they are not a member of the National Sozialismus Partei Deutschlands which was disbanded at the end of the war. For new groups and movements new names are created, but there is no god who could help this league if ingenuity and creativity were traits of its fans. :rolleyes:

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But common sense and reading books about the culture in, inter alia, Italy, Germany, Britain and Eastern Europe, aswell as South America would tell anyone with opposable thumbs that the groups in those areas bare ABSOLUTELY NO RESEMBLANCE to the 'ultras' in Ireland.

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I have to agree, although their aims may be similar, Ireland, up till now at least, has never come close to the likes of this:
*ahem* ignore the 'hooligans.cz' bit, they just host the image.
http://ultras-not-huligans.weblog.ro...St.Etienne.jpg

I'll say again that there are no proper Ultra groups in Ireland, this is where my bone of contention lies with groups calling themselves Ultra

I have never seen an Eircom team (and I think I've seen them all live at this stage)that sings for 90 minutes for one, none of us do. There are singular games where this might happen sure, but for visits by lower clubs it doesn't, not here. People use the Shamrock Rovers Ultras as the focal point for the Irish Ultras movement as apparantly they are the best, but when they were in the First Division I didn't see any of it in our matches against them. They sang as much as you'd expect someone to sing would, there was no displays, and in general were a bit quiet for their second visit after the trouble at their first visit.

This is why I say that proper Ultras groups from Italy, Eastern Europe, wherever would laugh at Irish Ultras if they could actually see them in action

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Originally Posted by Djrgrn

http://ultras-not-huligans.weblog.ro...St.Etienne.jpg

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Amazing. Any idiot can light a few flares in a crowd at night time and wave a few flags but this is the balls. :)

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Originally Posted by jebus

I'll say again that there are no proper Ultra groups in Ireland, this is where my bone of contention lies with groups calling themselves Ultra

I have never seen an Eircom team (and I think I've seen them all live at this stage)that sings for 90 minutes for one, none of us do. There are singular games where this might happen sure, but for visits by lower clubs it doesn't, not here. People use the Shamrock Rovers Ultras as the focal point for the Irish Ultras movement as apparantly they are the best, but when they were in the First Division I didn't see any of it in our matches against them. They sang as much as you'd expect someone to sing would, there was no displays, and in general were a bit quiet for their second visit after the trouble at their first visit.

This is why I say that proper Ultras groups from Italy, Eastern Europe, wherever would laugh at Irish Ultras if they could actually see them in action

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Or they could just take your word seeing as you're the expert on this matter. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Djrgrn

I have to agree, although their aims may be similar, Ireland, up till now at least, has never come close to the likes of this:
*ahem* ignore the 'hooligans.cz' bit, they just host the image.
http://ultras-not-huligans.weblog.ro...St.Etienne.jpg

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Sure they can't even see the match :D;)

Sure even the players aren't into the match...

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Originally Posted by Djrgrn

Sure even the players aren't into the match...

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More in common with our league than immediately appeared evident. :p

haha, brilliant.

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Originally Posted by jebus

I have never seen an Eircom team (and I think I've seen them all live at this stage)that sings for 90 minutes for one, none of us do.

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Have you never been to a Derry game then? :confused:

sorry but some of the absolute sh!te on this thread is unreal.
If you see a number of young lads hangin around after games they are either: wannabe casuals or scumbags doing waht they do best.'ultras' wont be involved!
None of the ultra groups in Ireland are the ones causing trouble outside grounds. Has anyone ever heard of the under 5's ,BSC, or even SSC and CCC???
Most people here are talking about stuff that they think they no but really dont.

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Originally Posted by GenerationXI

This argument is basically about terminology and you can't expect us pedants not to get worked up over it. It is illogical to spawn a group out of nothing and adopt the label of another. This is why, for example, there are no NAZIs today - to call anyone a NAZI is to desregard the fact that they are not a member of the National Sozialismus Partei Deutschlands which was disbanded at the end of the war. For new groups and movements new names are created, but there is no god who could help this league if ingenuity and creativity were traits of its fans. :rolleyes:

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Well at least you admit you are a pedant. Nazism is an ideology based on Hitlers thought, so there can be Nazis.

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Originally Posted by Candystripe

Have you never been to a Derry game then? :confused:

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I've been at three.

Did they sing for 90 minutes??

Did they fook!!

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

I've been at three.

Did they sing for 90 minutes??

Did they fook!!

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All I can ever hear is the drum.