This is not right!

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Originally Posted by pete

It is ironic that UCD complain about hand outs. How can they run a semi pro team on roughly 500 fans a game? You must be receiving indirect support from the University. You pays for the admin salaries? Who pays for the sports scholarships? What is your budget for the season & how do you run a club when first division sides can't pay players on similar budget?

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Feck it, I'll answer anyway. UCD AFC only have one full time admin staff, our commercial manager. He also handles the admin duties for the collegiate side etc. so his salary is split which the college. We had a full time CPO but since he and the club parted company we've elected to see out the season with a part time one. The club is run by a voluntary committee with a few local businessmen among its members, people who have been involved in the club long term.

The scholarships are paid for from the clubs own budget which it raises. The clubs raises its budget in many of the traditional ways other clubs do:

Gate receipts: Yes, there are some, particularly from the ties against Dublin opponents plus lots of cup matches in recent seasons.

Prize money: We've had a few good cup runs recently and we've also received fair play prize money plus we've consistently performed at U-21 level.

Sponsorship: The club and its superleague have been sponsored by Budweiser for over a decade and there's been a good sponsorship deal in place with AIB for the main stand in both our grounds, not to mention advertising hoardings etc.

There are other fundraisers like our annual alumni dinner, superleague subsidies and benefactor donations like your man Tommy Allen who throws money at a dozen different clubs if you listen to him. I think Pineapple told me before that there's an annual stipend from the college that represents under 10% of our budget but someone else could clarify that. By and large though its the activities of our committee that raise us the money.

UCD only spend what they have, we pay small wages and have small overheads. You should ask yourself why first division clubs can't pay wages on a similar budget when UCD can? Monaghan United operate a similar tight ship on an even smaller scale.

If you read about university funding in Ireland and see the hole in UCD's budget you'd understand there's no way they're bankrolling a football club. There's a massive distance between the college's administrators and the club. They couldn't care less and that spans right across the college down to the students union. In spite of the waffle spouted here, UCD is very much a club supported by local people rather than people affiliated with the college.

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Nether have Sligo Rovers all players have always been played on time and that’s something we are proud off

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I'm delighted that your so proud that when you sign a contract with a player you've been able to pay them:rolleyes:. Thats not something to be proud of, that should be the most basic element of any business in the world.

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I dont get your point in regards to us,
we are a community based club who have asked the community to raise funds to keep the club afloat. Our players are paid on time, everytime and our debts have been greatly reduced and are very small in comparison to others. I dont think we have gained advantage over clubs because our people have come together as a unit and sorted our own problems out and kept an 80 year old club still going strong

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My point about Sligo was only about the fans having to bail out the club because of their shocking mismangement..iv nothing but admiration for the Sligo fans, wish we had a similar fanbase at UCD.

I can understand teh frustration of UCD fans, but feel its all a bit premature.

We have been punished for entering examinership. During examinership if anything else comes out Id expect us to be punished for that. If at the end of the season we have broken teh wage cap for the year we will be punished for doing so, but none of this has come to pass yet so whats with the rant?

it's not our fault that there are not clear enough rules in regard punishments. If it was l;aid out that breaking the wage cap over the year was a 20point deduction or automatic relegation then we'd all know where we stand and the possible consequences. but the FAI's inability to do so is not the failing of CCFC. It's as frustrating for us as anyone else.

If we havent paid up the players and creditors we will not get a license.

We have someone coming in to take over the club, with a fans grouping in the mix and hope to make the club a self sustaining entity. If we manage to sort ourselves out before he end of the season, pay off our debts and get under the wage cap then we deserve no more punishment that the one for going into examinership. If we dont we'l deserve everything we get. But again, its not us making these decisions

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Originally Posted by micls

I can understand the frustration of UCD fans, but feel its all a bit premature.

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I don't think it's premature, Cork isn't the first club to run into trouble, but I think it's misplaced. UCD isn't going down because we can't catch Cork or Pats. We're going down because we can't catch Harps or Bray.

At the end of the season this year's UCD team will have shown none of the potential it has and will deserve to be relegated. If we're saved by some other club going bust it'll be a get out of jail free card, it won't be something the team earned.

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Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I don't think it's premature,

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He's ranting about ye going down and us staying in the premier. Given none of that is anyway certain yet then I think it is premature

As a person formerly involved with UCD Superleague a few years ago I do know that UCD AFC does not get any substantial handouts from the College and it is extremely well run finanically.

What poor student has outlined is pretty much as I remember how the club was funded when I was involved.

UCD are a selling club a bit like Wimbledon in the 90's where they would uncover a decent player they would have to sell him the following year.

Good business but hard to build for success!

A team of UCD explayers from the league at the moment would pretty much would be near top of the table.

Good point, John, that's something I forgot! Revenue generated from player sales. Off the top of my head we've sold Gary Dicker, Conor Sammon, Darren Quigley, Alan Cawley and Conan Byrne over the last few years. Although sometimes we have to fight to get paid and I'm lead to believe we haven't seen money due to us for at least one of the above.

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Originally Posted by pete

Firstly there is no evidence Cork City will fail to match the 65% wage rule yet as it is judged over a full season. If we break that I expect we will be punished. The same rule applies if we fail to pay our players at the end of the season.

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No evidence you are over the 65% !!! :eek:
Come on Pete! ....

The 65% rule is running through the season, it doesn't come into effect after 12 months. Through monthly accounts submitted to the FAI the 65% rule was to be in play.

I do agree with one thing actually.
IF all your creditors are to get 100% of what they are owed and your players are happy to play for you on reduced wages for a period then the 10 points deduction for going into examinership is correct and fair and you should not be punished any further.

However, if you are to give creditors less than 100% you should have your licence pulled and suffer demotion (at least).

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Originally Posted by micls

He's ranting about ye going down and us staying in the premier. Given none of that is anyway certain yet then I think it is premature

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I don't want to get into an argument over the definition of words but we have to remember that Cork isn't the first club to run into this type of trouble in the league. Your current difficulties are following a well rehearsed path.

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Originally Posted by higgins

However, if you are to give creditors less than 100% you should have your licence pulled and suffer demotion (at least).

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I would certainly prefer or all our creditors to receive 100%. failing this, whatever penalty comes our way, we'll take on the chin.
Far be it from me to go off topic but UCD impressed at times the other night, knocked it around nicely at times but had no real end product, against what was an extremely makeshift City side.

Its funny.It really is. This UCD team should be higher up the league regardless of what other clubs have done.

The reason they arent is down to not being able to score goals. The reason they cant score goals is that they dont have a proven goalscorer. They dont have a proven goalscorer because they couldnt and wouldnt pay the ridiculous money that the few available strikers of note were looking for.

So... Lets play a game. The game is called ''Lets pretend''.

Lets pretend that in January UCD signed two strikers. Really good strikers the 15 goal a season type. Lets pretend they paid them a grand a week. Lets pretend they banged in 20 goals between them to date. Lets pretend that left UCD sitting in mid table comfort.

Now lets pretend that because they added 2 grand a week to the wage bill that other bills arent being paid. Now lets pretend that UCD are in the mire with their creditors. Now lets pretend that the main sponsor pulls out (which they did).

Now lets pretend that the club have no money for ANYONES wages. Now lets pretend that because of this the club goes into examinership (The irish version of receivership).

Who would give a sh1t?

Thats right nobody but the 8 committee members, The 2 full time staff (used to be 3 'sniff') The 30 odd players and staff and the 300 or so supporters.

The funny thing is that what I have outlined above very nearly did happen!They nearly signed 2 very good strikers for a grand a week each.

Why didnt they?

Because the people in charge decided that having a club in the first division and living to fight another day was better than dying.

Are they right?

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Originally Posted by Saint_Charlie

You've lost me aswell soccerc. As far as I can see we ARE fooked if Kelleher pulls out.

Hope i'm wrong tho.

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You're not. At current spending levels obviously.

The difference between Cork and Pats is that Cork were bought by an investment firm. Kelleher knows he's never going to make money from us. (Anyone remember Arkaga talking about a brand new stadium which would host concerts etc :rolleyes: )

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Originally Posted by Titan

This UCD team should be higher up the league regardless of what other clubs have done

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No it shouldn't. You have some terrible, terrible players and are deservedly fighting relegation.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

You're not. At current spending levels obviously.

The difference between Cork and Pats is that Cork were bought by an investment firm. Kelleher knows he's never going to make money from us. (Anyone remember Arkaga talking about a brand new stadium which would host concerts etc :rolleyes: )



No it shouldn't. You have some terrible, terrible players and are deservedly fighting relegation.

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So having two really good strikers wouldnt have gained the team 10 points over the last 26 games?

Apart from a hiding up in Derry there havent been any hammerings its mostly been the odd goal.

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Originally Posted by Titan

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So having two really good strikers wouldnt have gained the team 10 points over the last 26 games?

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Possibly, not sure why you're asking me though.

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Apart from a hiding up in Derry there havent been any hammerings its mostly been the odd goal.

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So? How is losing 3 games 0-1 better than losing two 0-5 and winning the other 1-0?

If a team is relegated, they deserve to be. Just like the team who wins the league deserves it

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Originally Posted by higgins

No evidence you are over the 65% !!! :eek:
Come on Pete! ....

The 65% rule is running through the season, it doesn't come into effect after 12 months. Through monthly accounts submitted to the FAI the 65% rule was to be in play.

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Teh monthly reports is simply to stop things before they go too far.

The rule itself is over the course of the entire season. We have not broken it....yet

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Originally Posted by higgins

However, if you are to give creditors less than 100% you should have your licence pulled and suffer demotion (at least).

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It depends on the rules the FAI have for this I suppose. Was the 10point deduction simply for entering examinership or for the examinership process? I dont know. I dont think our creditors will be getting 100% though

Again clear rules would make this a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Possibly, not sure why you're asking me though.


So? How is losing 3 games 0-1 better than losing two 0-5 and winning the other 1-0?

If a team is relegated, they deserve to be. Just like the team who wins the league deserves it

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I wasnt asking you! You obviously didnt read my original post on the subject which was basically saying that UCD are fecked cos they cudnt score in a house of ill repute while clutching a fist full of €50 notes. The point I was trying to make was that with a couple of decent strikers maybe 2 out of three of those 0-1 results might have been 1-1 or even 2-1.

Yeah, and if Cobh had 2 quality centre halves and if Galway had 2 quality midfielders etc etc etc

The only point I was arguing is that you area better team thatn your position indicates. You're not

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Yeah, and if Cobh had 2 quality centre halves and if Galway had 2 quality midfielders etc etc etc

The only point I was arguing is that you area better team thatn your position indicates. You're not

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Agreed!

But I was making the point that if they had gambled like other clubs had they would probably be in a better position league table wise but screwed anyway.

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Originally Posted by Titan

Now lets pretend that the club have no money for ANYONES wages. Now lets pretend that because of this the club goes into examinership (The irish version of receivership).

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Then youd have lost the 10poitns anyway and still be in the relegation zone....

And examinership is not the Irish version of receivership its before receivership

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

Clubs with no financial problems get to play into goals that are a foot wider and six inches taller. Would that fix it? :p

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The way we've played this year, I doubt even that would have saved us. :)

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Originally Posted by pete

It is ironic that UCD complain about hand outs. How can they run a semi pro team on roughly 500 fans a game? You must be receiving indirect support from the University. You pays for the admin salaries? Who pays for the sports scholarships? What is your budget for the season & how do you run a club when first division sides can't pay players on similar budget?

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It's really not. All this has been explained before, and will be explained again.

I don't think people understand when UCD fans bitch about financial mismanagement. There's no room for us in a well run league. Not near the top anyway. Matched with slightly bigger, well run clubs with competent youth setups of their own, the margins we thrive on would be eroded.