Paul McShane

If you look at all the games where he's "not in the club's line-up" you'll see he was taken off injured in the previous game each time. The run of games where he was on the bench was during a run where they conceded one goal in five games, so it's not hard to see why he was left out. Apart from those games, he's started almost every game he's been fit for.

I don't know if LB for the final game is right, but so what if he was moved around to accommodate a different formation? Your gripes are becoming increasingly desperate.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

If you look at all the games where he's "not in the club's line-up" you'll see he was taken off injured in the previous game each time. The run of games where he was on the bench was during a run where they conceded one goal in five games, so it's not hard to see why he was left out. Apart from those games, he's started almost every game he's been fit for.

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Good diversionary tactic bringing up something that I've never disputed and acting like a have? See my 'injuries being acknowledged' remark.

The dataset is very small. Following on from being on the bench 5 times in a row. It goes:
Start 5
Miss 2
Bench 2
Start 2
Miss 4
Bench 2
Start 2

Maybe do some fact-checking before posting next time if you don't like someone correcting your blatant errors? You stated he started every game since he won his place back before Christmas. This was blatantly false.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I don't know if LB for the final game is right, but so what if he was moved around to accommodate a different formation? Your gripes are becoming increasingly desperate.

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What gripes. This is reality. Backs up my squad player assessment with facts. But you apparently have a problem with those.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

Good diversionary tactic bringing up something that I've never disputed and acting like a have? See my 'injuries being acknowledged' remark.

The dataset is very small. Following on from being on the bench 5 times in a row. It goes:
Start 5
Miss 2
Bench 2
Start 2
Miss 4
Bench 2
Start 2

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You disputed it when you said he was a squad player. A squad player doesn't start 2/3 of the games he's fit for.

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Maybe do some fact-checking before posting next time if you don't like someone correcting your blatant errors? You stated he started every game since he won his place back before Christmas. This was blatantly false.

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I admit I was wrong on that, but I think Bruce had good reason to stick with a virtually flawless defence. As soon as cracks appeared, he was back in the team and didn't lose his place until he sustained another injury.

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What gripes. This is reality. Backs up my squad player assessment with facts. But you apparently have a problem with those.

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But I'm telling you your stats don't back up what you said. He was in the squad every time was fit and he started the vast majority of those games, the only exceptions being when he was working his way back from injured. Your link clearly indicates that he wasn't dropped once all season.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

You disputed it when you said he was a squad player. A squad player doesn't start 2/3 of the games he's fit for.

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He does if other players are injured/suspended.

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I admit I was wrong on that, but I think Bruce had good reason to stick with a virtually flawless defence. As soon as cracks appeared, he was back in the team and didn't lose his place until he sustained another injury.

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Fair enough. He did start 5 in a row till injury.

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But I'm telling you your stats don't back up what you said. He was in the squad every time was fit and he started the vast majority of those games, the only exceptions being when he was working his way back from injured. Your link clearly indicates that he wasn't dropped once all season.

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I disagree. When you take the season as a whole you can see that he started out on the bench and didn't start a game until October. This is then broken by injury, comes back, injury again, another long spell on the bench, back in, injury, bench, back in, injury, bench, back in.

Like I say I'm judging from afar but I see squad player with injuries. Also, I don't know Hull well enough to know who else was unavailable which would see a squad player get some of those starts. It's possible you're right and that he became a first choice since January but the evidence before that and being eased in from the bench make me skeptical.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

He does if other players are injured/suspended.

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Look at the games in which he did start then. There were always other defenders on the bench. In one particular game - a win over Ipswich - both Rosenior and Faye were withdrawn with McShane left on the field. In general, if anybody was withdrawn it was Bruce. That isn't indicative of a squad player - it's indicative of a player who is there to play 90 minutes consistently. Again, if you actually examine the stats, he plays 90 minutes every time he is fit to finish the game.

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I disagree. When you take the season as a whole you can see that he started out on the bench and didn't start a game until October. This is then broken by injury, comes back, injury again, another long spell on the bench, back in, injury, bench, back in, injury, bench, back in.

Like I say I'm judging from afar but I see squad player with injuries. Also, I don't know Hull well enough to know who else was unavailable which would see a squad player get some of those starts. It's possible you're right and that he became a first choice since January but the evidence before that and being eased in from the bench make me skeptical.

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I am 100% in agreement that he wasn't first choice until October and that was almost certainly based on previous poor form. After that, he established himself in the team and was picked when fit, except when he had gotten injured and the defence had been virtually flawless in his absence. I think you are interpreting the stats superficially but when you actually delve into the details, you'll see that McShane has been a first choice player for the majority of the season when fit.

I still wouldn't have him in the Ireland team barring an emergency.

Ok you are saying he was first choice apart from the 8 games at the start of the season, the 5 games on the trot in dec/jan, and the 4 games when coming back from injuries. Plus the 9 games missed through injury, naturally. Who isn't first choice then? Chester, Bruce, Faye all started more games than him.

Everyone fit I don't think he starts for them.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

Ok you are saying he was first choice apart from the 8 games at the start of the season, the 5 games on the trot in dec/jan, and the 4 games when coming back from injuries. Plus the 9 games missed through injury, naturally. Who isn't first choice then? Chester, Bruce, Faye all started more games than him.

Everyone fit I don't think he starts for them.

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But your own link shows you that everybody being fit he does start for them, that one period when they were flawless in defence aside.

Stop. Please stop.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

But your own link shows you that everybody being fit he does start for them, that one period when they were flawless in defence aside.

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How do you come to that conclusion? Bruce and Faye have missed spells out injured. Faye was missing from 19/1 and didn't come back into the team until 30/3. Who came in again on 19/1? Who isn't first choice I ask you? Bruce, Faye, Chester have started more games. Hobbs has also started 20 games like McShane.

Don't stop.

Keep going. Don't listen to them.

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Originally Posted by Irwin3

So I was correct. How has he fought his way into the side though? He's a back up for them usually. He was playing left back in the last game! Fair play to McShane and to be honest if I was looking for a championship-level defender going forward I'd take McShane over Foley at the moment. But that statement from JGKyne was balls.

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I was basing my comments on January onwards when McShane was named Hull's POTM but then got injured before the WCQ's in March and was basically ruled out for the season but returned for Hull's run in and got back into the team. McShane was never been a back up and has played all across the back 4 for Hull this season but mainly as a left sided CB in a back 3. If he didn't get injured in March he would have played regularly in Hull's run in.
Whereas Foley lost he's place to Matt Doherty in the Wolves team in the last few months. I didn't even know Foley was suffering from injuries throughout the season. Any time I looked up Wolves results Foley was listed as a sub with Doherty playing RB.

But yeah I probably should have looked up the stats... ;)
But one thing I'm sure off McShane will be playing PL next season and Foley will more than likely be playing in L1

For all the McShane fans out there you might want to follow
McShaneFacts

McShane would be a great first buy for Moyes, he would not have to spend too much money and
assuming he does as a well as expect he could make a tidy profit on him.

He is just the sort or player Man U need to drive them forward in the new era.

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Originally Posted by JGKyne

For all the McShane fans out there you might want to follow
McShaneFacts

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from the brain surgeons who run balls.ie

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

McShane would be a great first buy for Moyes, he would not have to spend too much money and
assuming he does as a well as expect he could make a tidy profit on him.

He is just the sort or player Man U need to drive them forward in the new era.

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No. You should never go back, it will only end in tears.

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Originally Posted by JGKyne

For all the McShane fans out there you might want to follow
McShaneFacts

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That's brilliant.

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Originally Posted by JGKyne

I was basing my comments on January onwards when McShane was named Hull's POTM but then got injured before the WCQ's in March and was basically ruled out for the season but returned for Hull's run in and got back into the team. McShane was never been a back up and has played all across the back 4 for Hull this season but mainly as a left sided CB in a back 3. If he didn't get injured in March he would have played regularly in Hull's run in.
Whereas Foley lost he's place to Matt Doherty in the Wolves team in the last few months. I didn't even know Foley was suffering from injuries throughout the season. Any time I looked up Wolves results Foley was listed as a sub with Doherty playing RB.

But yeah I probably should have looked up the stats... ;)
But one thing I'm sure off McShane will be playing PL next season and Foley will more than likely be playing in L1

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Foley was injured at the end of last season. Then the Euro's debacle and he was injured again at the start of this season. I read a few months back that he was taking injections and couldn't train for a couple of days after each one. Last start for Wolves was 19/2. 2 late sub appearances and 5 unused appearances since then. Not looking good for the lad at the moment.

P.S. Let's see how many games he plays in the PL. He's just 6 short of Foley's PL appearances so maybe he'll overtake this next season.

From The Examiner on Tuesday, not a bad read. Much as I've never particularly rated him, some of the abuse is ridiculous.

KIERAN SHANNON: Leave off the begrudgery and salute McShane

Tuesday, May 07, 2013
By Kieran Shannon

He still gets blamed for Paris nearly as much as Thierry Henry, just because Roy Keane once said he should never have let that ball bounce in the penalty area.
They tried to take the moment away from him. When Paul McShane notched the goal that sent Hull City back to the Premier League, Twitter lit up with the musings of the miserly, in both spirit and mind.

“Commiserations to Hull City on getting relegated next season,” remarked one twit. “Paul McShane in the Premier League? You’re having a laugh.”

A Tyrone Gaelic footballer who has done nothing in sport compared to some of his more illustrious team-mates and indeed McShane himself joined in on the beating. “Surely Paul McShane will not be on match of the day (sic) next season?”
But then that player was pretty much saying what multitudes were saying on the same network. In the tweet of another twit, “It will be a sad day if Paul McShane is playing in the Premier League.” Anyone with a real grasp of and love for sport could only think the opposite. It’s a joyous day when Paul McShane is back in the Premier League because he personifies so much of what makes it so life affirming.

McShane nearly quit football a couple of years ago. He was at his seventh club in eight years, wasn’t getting a game, not even a hello from his club manager. “I was really contemplating it,” he’d tell reporters last weekend, “just getting in my car, getting on the boat and going back to Ireland because it was just wall after wall that I kept hitting.”

Even there he wouldn’t have much respite. In this country he’s become a public punch-bag.

Someone went to the bother of putting up on YouTube a nine-minute nightmare reel of the defender with the intentionally-ironic title ‘McShane: The God of this era’.

Another website deemed him the worst player to ever play for Ireland. A so-called comedian tweeted that one service was “as unreliable as Paul McShane”.

It’s an increasingly-common phenomenon of Irish life and sport. If you want to gain a cheap laugh, have a pop at a footballer playing in England. Paul Green — ha, ha, ha. Conor Sammon — ha, ha, ha. And Paul McShane — ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! To this day he still gets blamed for Paris nearly as much as Thierry Henry, just because Roy Keane once said he should never have let that ball bounce in the penalty area.

But as McShane has pointed out, someone as skilful as Henry had to handle that ball to keep it in play. If McShane had tried to get a boot or head to it, people would have wondered why didn’t he just let it go out.

People who know the game would know that. But most people don’t. They think professional footballers have it easy, that they’re so much softer than their rugby-playing counterparts who don’t make a fraction of the money.

There’s a reason that rugby players don’t make a fraction of the money soccer players in the Premier League and Championship do. Only a fraction of people play rugby compared to soccer. For any player to secure a professional contract in his 20s with a Premier League or Championship club in England is harder to do than secure a place on the British and Irish Lions. Paul McShane is in a higher percentile of football players worldwide than Donncha O’Callaghan is in rugby. Yet compare how one has been lionised while the other has been ridiculed.

Contrary to the stereotype, professional football is not a soft, cushy business. As McShane once observed, “It’s not a nice industry. It’s a horrible business.”

And it’s a hard-nosed one. To win that next contract, to stay in the game, to survive, you have to be talented, thick-skinned, resilient.

Most of us at some stage in our lives dreamed of playing professional football, went to school imagining ourselves being another Best, Dalglish, Cantona, Rooney, whatever generation we were, the Match of the Day theme-track accompanying our stepovers and piledrivers along the way.

But only an elite, select few ever make it over there. Like Paul McShane from Greystones, County Wicklow. Think of how exceptional he must have been to be signed Manchester United, to play on their FA Youth Cup winning team. To be selected for Ireland at 20 years of age when his performance against the Czech Republic had the scribes hailing him as another Kevin Moran.

As the years have shown, McShane has proved to be no Kevin Moran. He’s been a journeyman pro. But there’s no shame in that and that journey has now taken the man back to the Premier League. Though his contract expires in the next few days, Steve Bruce has already said McShane is the first player he’ll be offering a new contract.

“He’s had some stick and a difficult couple of years,” said Bruce, “but he never gave up and has a big heart.”

“I still have that hunger and drive,” McShane himself said last year.

” I’m just an honest lad.”

Scorn not his honesty. Instead rejoice that he’ll be back on Match of the Day, the show we all wanted to be on but just weren’t as good as him.

I didn't know Roy Keane said that about Paris, but I still apportion some of the blame to McShane :)

Also, I think the reason footballers get paid more than rugby players is mainly because satellite TV pays vastly more for football content than rugby content, and just simply because more people pay to watch it.

But still, the tone of the article is bang-on. I like to think that any criticism I've directed at McShane (and Sammon more recently) has been fair and I've also given credit where it's due - he was superb versus Italy in Liege and played very well just before the Euros, against Bosnia I think.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I didn't know Roy Keane said that about Paris, but I still apportion some of the blame to McShane :)

Also, I think the reason footballers get paid more than rugby players is mainly because satellite TV pays vastly more for football content than rugby content, and just simply because more people pay to watch it.

But still, the tone of the article is bang-on. I like to think that any criticism I've directed at McShane (and Sammon more recently) has been fair and I've also given credit where it's due - he was superb versus Italy in Liege and played very well just before the Euros, against Bosnia I think.

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Strongly disagree about Paris, Stutts. I could tell that ball was going out for a goal kick from the other end of the ground, it took 2 handballs from Henry to keep it in. Had McShane put it out for a corner and France had scored from it he'd have been crucified for giving a needless set piece away by the same people who give him stick for not playing the ball and probably by more again. The original ball into the box was overhit and would have been harmless without an intervention that couldn't be predicted and that 99% of officials would see.

I think McShane has various issues with his game that would prevent me playing him but the comments Keane made that a lot of people (present company excluded!) took their lead from were a joke.