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You see its not, as I said earlier, its only 3 points, don't be flattering yourself that you are out of sight. This can be reeled in. Almost sure too at the time, that PP had priced both Rovers and DFC at 1/1 after this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
The non relegation part is the bigger issue, would turn the rest of the games for 50% into almost keep fit matches.
To be honest if we do go to two rounds of games can we not have a split league like what we did in the mid 90s with top half competing for the top half and europe and bottom half competing to avoid relegation. Have this as a once off only.
It's insulting peoples intelligence to suggest that Perth is approaching this from a position that doesn't concern his team, namely relegation. He obviously has little or no faith in his teams ability to overtake Rovers in the league. Cant think Kenny would have been the same way when he was dalk manager.
What it does give Rovers is even more belief that they can take the league this season, irrespective of whether the league is over 18, 36,whatever, fixtures it ends up being.
Yes I'm sure he thinks 3 points in beyond his ability to pull back. The 13 points last season on the other hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Fact of the matter if it is 18 games with 5 played, Dundalk win their 13 games they will win the league
Wouldn't ever mention Perth in the same line as Kenny. He fell into the job on the back of Kenny. We've gone backwards since he left.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Anyway, if the league resumes it will have to have relegation otherwise it's pretty pointless even bothering restarting this year.
And what about Goal difference if Rovers win 12 of 13, I think you've overlooked this partQuote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
It's not blind faith in all the club does but a penalty shootout from a domestic clean sweep? We have had ropy moments in Europe under Kenny and it was a 1st season with going through a round in Europe for VP. I think we added to the squad appropriately to balance domestic comp with the sort of player that will stand to us in Europe. I felt that the coaches dealt remarkably well with a ridiculous injury list first round of the league and for some key players beyond. I dont think we'd be as thin on the ground if by some very bad luck a similar injury crisis hits. Obviously its all up in the air this season on whether there have been improvements made, hopefully we get the chance to see but its a tad harsh an assessment of VP if not at all a tongue in cheek post!?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
There is certainly a lot of seeing only good in what the club/manager does as long as we're winning, with our supporters.
My issues are with the negative style of play and, mainly, player recruitment which is gradually going to see us regress under Perth.
I'm not going to be blind to it because he won a 2-team league and the League Cup. Would the Chris Shields suspension have happened under Kenny? Not a chance! We didn't win a game in Europe and the 6 performances were painful to watch. He said he wanted to tighten us up defensively, fair enough if that's his philosophy, but some of it has been dreadful.
Look at who we've signed since Kenny left, and what players have departed. Kenny's team are getting older now, most in their 30s or hitting their 30s, and I'd have major concerns over Perth's eye for a player. It was basically Kenny's team that won the league last year.
Dummigan (who there seemed to be a specific PR campaign for to lead us to believe he's the best right back who's never played ffs) and McKee (!) were a total waste of time and money.
Murray and Flores both very good players, we can see that when they're fit but the problem is they're hardly ever fit (that's the only reason they're with us so why bother with them). More money wasted given what they're going to contribute over a season.
He's also signed Will Patching, a "moneyball" signing (Perth's words). He isn't even related to a footballer. Nathan Oduwa who's on his 9th club at 24. There's enough in that to avoid him. Why, when spending millions a year, are we risking signing these types of players? Hard to tell on Cammy Smith (loan) and looks like he might be gone already anyway.
Perth has taken credit for signing Daniel Kelly but he was on his way to us anyway. I'll give him Leahy (although if he stood up to the owners maybe we'd still have Jarvis) and Sloggett (still need to see more of him but at least he's LOI proven and generally fit).
I just think in another year or two (if we're still splashing out on a squad like this) it's going to come back and bite us.
It's already evident Rovers have passed us, in my view, but I suppose Perth's future depends on whether the owners are happy as long as we remain in the top 2 and don't fall below that.
I'd have issues with some of the stuff he comes out with in the media too, continually saying "if I can give myself a pat on the back for a minute" etc. Constantly looking for praise and, at other times, trying to come across as some sort of prophet. It's cringe and presents someone who has a chip on his shoulder. Seems he doesn't think he got enough credit for Kenny's success.
To me it says something that Kenny never offered him a role with the Irish setup (considering he wanted Higgins and the kitman(!) with him).
Are you on drugs? In Kennys 6 years only twice has his teams scored more league goals than we scored in 2019. (Not comparing Perth to Stephen at all) but to say hes too defensive is nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Your not blind to it because he won a 2 team league, Ever year Kenny was here it was a 2 team league Dundalk and Cork.
Dummigan never got a look in cause Gannon is too good (Dummigan was also excellent any gaems he played)
Regarding Patching, Oduwa etc Kenny signed Kinsella, McDermott etc who were next to useless.
Jarvis was never staying at the club after what he done. Thats just stupid. He's playing with Larne now, which shows no LOI wants touch him now.
100% you sit in the stand, and moan about everything. Plenty of them about Oriel
That is incorrect. He could’ve stayed in LOI had he wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
Kenny was excellent at Dundalk, 4 titles speak for itself. He wasn't faultness though, and his record in europe after 2016 was just ok, beat an avg Talinn side home and away, but lost heavily to Larnaca after this, prob unlucky overall v Rosenberg the year before, got it to ET in the second leg. Also Cork were clearly the best team in 2017, but losing the final that year for a second year in a row was a lost opportunity to gain something from the year, after a good league recovery that season.
Perth won the league in his first season and was a penalty shoot out away from the treble, yes not great in europe, but overall this was a more than good enough in his first year.
Back to the LOI for this season, should be some news early this week on what is going to be agreed I think?
Is there a meeting today between the clubs and FAI?
Not sure about that. May as well finish the season after 5 games if speed and money is the overriding factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Of course its not 'any' season but things do seem to be going in the right direction.
Off the pitch ... the money side of things seems good, crowds at games is looking like it will happen, 4 or 5 months to complete the season within this calendar year.
On the pitch ... all teams are looking for is a sporting chance. 13 games is not enough of a sporting chance to decide clubs future. Push it out to 3 series or re-start over 2 series give teams more of a sporting chance, in my opinion.
It's not 13 games. It's 18. Restart or not it's 18 games. A big gap in the middle makes **** all difference because it's the same for everyone. It's fair to count the first 5 games now get on with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by redobit
Can't do 3 rounds because teams cant/won't extend contracts which would be needed to do that.
If you're going to throw out stuff at least try to be factual. 2019 was our lowest scoring average league season since 2013 (can't compare Kenny's first season to Perth's first season).Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
Hoban scored 7 goals from play last season compared to 24 in 2018!
Kenny and Perth are chalk and cheese. In my opinion we'll only regress further under Perth.
Cork were far more of a challenge in every year than Rovers were last season. The points totals of other teams from 2014-2017 show it was far more competitive all round too.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
We had the best right back in the league so let's sign another right back and pretend he's brilliant too. Clever. It was embarrassing how Perth mentioned him in every post match interview even when he hadn't been involved, saying how good he was. Wonder had that anything to do with Andy Burton in the background trying to promote his players? Sure Dummigan is ripping it up in the Irish League now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
Every manager signs a few duds. Perth is well past his quota already.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
If it was that serious why didn't the club sack him at the time? Stop blowing it up into something it wasn't. And he could have stayed in the LOI. Larne are paying out crazy wages and it's close 90 minutes from his home.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
No, I'm just not a fanboy who's happy clappy as long as we're winning. We've gone backwards under Perth in my opinion. It was pretty clear in Tallaght that Rovers have passed us out. Compare who they've signed since the end of 2018 to who we've signed in that time ffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
Dundalks goalsQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
2014 73
2015 78
2016 73
2017 72
2018 85
2019 73
Thats league goals so tell me again Vinny is Super Defensive.
Hoban was poor last season in front of goal but his all round play was far better. Started this year with 5 in 5 games so he's not doing too bad under this defensive manager.
I can see for my own eyes how good Dummigan is/was. He was excellent when he played. He won't get on so he's hardly a dud.
We played half of last year without Benson and McEleney, and still won league easy.
Rovers played better than us and beat us before when Kenny was manager. Did you think they overtook us then?
73 2019 36 games - 2.03 per gameQuote:
Originally Posted by dundalkfc10
85 2018 36 games - 2.36 pg
72 2017 33 games - 2.18 pg
73 2016 33 games - 2.21 pg
78 2015 33 games - 2.36 pg
73 2014 33 games - 2.21 pg
Perth himself has said it was his aim to make the team more defensively sound so I don't know why you're getting hung up on that (he did great by the way, we went from conceding 20 goals in 2018 to 18 goals in 2019).
Rattling in 3/4/5-0 wins against the bottom half teams might paint Perth's goals for stats in a better light.
Regardless of goals scored, you could see how our style of play has changed. Some of it is brutal to watch. It was more evident in Europe where he clearly went out not to lose. He got away with it against Riga through a shootout.
In my view we're a much poorer team to watch under Perth. If you think different, that's your opinion.
Dummigan hardly played last season and when he did a lot of the time it wasn't even at right back. Why bother signing him? He signed McKee as midfield cover and then played Hoare in that position and left McKee on the bench! Pointless signings, but good to see you fell for the Dummigan PR campaign.
Kenny always had Rovers measure, let's not get silly now, but fair enough Rovers have improved since. Tallaght last year where we robbed them, the cup final and in particular this year in Tallaght is evidence they're going past us now.
I said above my main issue with Perth's management so far is his player recruitment.
As a neutral (sort of )to SK v VP debate from VPs tenure with us at end of 08 season when he took over as caretaker mgr after Aaron Callaghan resigned at the time I thought that VP was hard done by in not getting perm job with us but its only now in hindsight hes not as effective as mgr as he was a coach. Its not personal with VP as he was a legend with us from his superb spell with us.
But SK when he was mgr with us was superb he made a huge effort in getting to know the supporters after matches. He was very much a people person and to this day even 19 years since he left us he would still remember your first name to this day! The only reason our gates increased spectacularly was he was so well known for his great football and made huge effort to support ie openings of local businesses. He was also a superb motivator and a great tactician I would rate him as my no 1 Longford Town manager ahead of Alan Mathews. There was an arrogance about Mathews which I didnt like and he didnt make the same effort that Kenny did with the public. If Kenny had stayed with us I would have being confident we would have went from strength to strength and had progressed past the first round of UEFA cup.
I agree that Dundalk will go backwards under VP. I think Alan Reynolds would be a far better candidate to be dundalk mgr than him being asst mgr now. I didnt rate Alan Reynolds from his season with us in 01/02 as he was notorious for being sent off 4 times that season.But I am delighted to see him do well as mgr. You know from his interviews from var podcasts I listen to hes a fan of Stephen Kenny and was very unlucky with Waterford in both spells with them.
I hate saying it but I can see Dundalk slipping back as the momentum is completely with Shamrock Rovers. I know there will be disagreements with my opinion but thats the beauty of a football forum!
It's not far off bizarre trying to make a fair comparison of Vinny Perth after 1 season succeeding Stephen Kenny.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Vinny has made a strong start in terms of trophies won, but it will take a prolonged period of success before he will challenge the records of Stephen Kenny or Jim McLaughlin.
If stats are being thrown out as a means of comparison, VP's record in 2019 stacks up well in lots of areas
Based on league results, 2019 season compared with the previous 6 season is in the top 2 or 3 for
* Average points per match
* Win %
* Average goal difference per match
Mgr Year Points Win % GD Per match Per match SK 2013 2.06 63.6% 0.76 SK 2014 2.24 66.7% 1.48 SK 2015 2.36 69.7% 1.67 SK 2016 2.33 75.8% 1.36 SK 2017 2.09 66.7% 1.45 SK 2018 2.42 75.0% 1.81 VP 2019 2.39 75.0% 1.53 2019 Rank 2 2 3
I agree that there are some question marks over some of his signings - hopefully we will get to see if Murray, Flores, Oduwa or Colovic can deliver.
On the Rovers challenge, there is little doubt that they are improving and cutting the league deficit from 25 points to 11 points shows that. Cork were consistently stronger challengers. Again time will tell
It was dundalkfc10 that brought goals scored/stats into it. I was just pointing out that last year we scored the least average league goals that we have since 2013.
Our style of play is far poorer under Perth than Kenny, that was my point, and again player recruitment is my main issue above all. Let's see where we are in another 18 months with similar signings as Kenny's team creeps over the hill. That's the problem.