Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I will admit completely that I didn't know of Trap's title wins in Portugal and Austria from memory. I responded to a claim he had done 'nothing' in the last ten years, when clearly winning two domestic titles is significantly more than nothing. All the more impressive, as Wiki informs me, that both titles were achieved in his first season with the clubs and neither side had won the league in a decade or more.

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So you Googled it, ha well done:)

I was going on what I seen of trap re his dreadful performance of a decent Italian team, and what fans of Bayern Munich and Salzburg had said when he was with them - who couldnt wait to be shot of him! Nah dont read too much into stats, but i do know Ireland wont be going to Brazil
Maybe Steve Mclaren shud be our manager, heard he won a few things in Europe!

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Originally Posted by brine3

I admire your blind loyalty to a manager that has us playing hoofball and under whom we continually get humiliated on the pitch.

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You see, this is exactly what I was talking about. I said:

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Originally Posted by me

...yes, he made mistakes, yes, he played some unattractive football, no, he probably didn't get the team to play to their full potential...

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and

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Originally Posted by me

He came in, he did a solid but ultimately flawed job, which probably didn't merit the huge wages he was on.

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And you somehow mistake this for blind loyalty, because it lacks your pure unbridled hatred for the man.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Trap was initially all about being hard to play through and difficult to score against. He was very happy to play without the ball and he was happy to try and nick goals from corners and frees. Most of our important goals in campaign one came this way, often with Hunt providing the delivery.

Over time we became easier to play through, easier to score against and worse with set pieces.

The system long since stopped working and Trap's solution was to play more primitive football, trying to outmuscle defenders in their last quarter of the pitch.

There were distinct phases of Trap's tenure: the phase where things worked and the phase where they clearly didn't. The reluctance to offer anything to address the latter phase (such as dropping Whelan) is why he had to go.


Junior, you're right. There'll always be some huff and puff, but under Jack there was also quite a bit of quality thrown in too. We were far more than the Crazy Gang of the international scene. Mick, Kerr and Stan all played a bit more of a passing game and I think it was only Trap that ever played outright hoofball.

None of the popular analysis accepts that there are questions of degrees in all this. We don't aspire to be Spain, but we can aspire to something better than the drivel of the last 12 months. The only quality we have seen was from a player like Hoolahan - Poland and Georgia for example. Did Trap take any note?

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Trap era summed up quite nicely and accurately.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

You see, this is exactly what I was talking about. I said:


and


And you somehow mistake this for blind loyalty, because it lacks your pure unbridled hatred for the man.

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I see, so when others criticise Trap, you have a go at them, but you yourself are allowed to criticise him.

Is it possible to disable this "thanks" thing, I didn't realise that this was a popularity contest.

It is when you talk continual rubbish, Bryaniek.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-...t=20&start=240
You're even having a go here, FFS.

The lack of 'popularity' might just be due to these sweeping generalisations.

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Originally Posted by brine3

I admire your blind loyalty to a manager that has us playing hoofball and under whom we continually get humiliated on the pitch.

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Think you'll find after the Euros/Germany game I was as cynical as anyone about Trap and his methods, but prior to the Euros and away from home in even this WCQ (& the last WCQ FFS, when we were, er, robbed) prior to Vienna, you cannot say we "continually get humiliated", FFS (again).
NB.Realise the tense is different.

Yes, he was paid a ridiculous wage but up to the end of 2011 he barely did a thing wrong as the results had justified the means.
Which even that auld lad deserves some credit for...

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Think you'll find after the Euros/Germany game I was as cynical as anyone about Trap and his methods, but prior to the Euros and away from home in even this WCQ (& the last WCQ FFS, when we were, er, robbed) prior to Vienna, you cannot say we "continually get humiliated", FFS (again).NB.Realise the tense is different.

Yes, he was paid a ridiculous wage but up to the end of 2011 he barely did a thing wrong as the results had justified the means.
Which even that auld lad deserves some credit for...

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So you were wrong then, as you changed your mind?:p

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

So you Googled it, ha well done:)

I was going on what I seen of trap re his dreadful performance of a decent Italian team, and what fans of Bayern Munich and Salzburg had said when he was with them - who couldnt wait to be shot of him! Nah dont read too much into stats, but i do know Ireland wont be going to Brazil
Maybe Steve Mclaren shud be our manager, heard he won a few things in Europe!

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In saying that he is a fantastic coach. Would be a superb appointment as number 2/coach

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

It is when you talk continual rubbish, Bryaniek.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-...t=20&start=240
You're even having a go here, FFS.

The lack of 'popularity' might just be due to these sweeping generalisations.



Think you'll find after the Euros/Germany game I was as cynical as anyone about Trap and his methods, but prior to the Euros and away from home in even this WCQ (& the last WCQ FFS, when we were, er, robbed) prior to Vienna, you cannot say we "continually get humiliated", FFS (again).
NB.Realise the tense is different.

Yes, he was paid a ridiculous wage but up to the end of 2011 he barely did a thing wrong as the results had justified the means.
Which even that auld lad deserves some credit for...

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I see, so we were never humiliated, if you discount all the matches we were humiliated in.

Not sure about how I feel about you following me around the internet and giving out about my grammar.

I thought Trap was very good in the first campaign repairing all the damage Stan did, but everything went to crap when Russia came to Dublin and cruelly exposed his system. Trap has had no answers since then. As for qualifying for Euro 2012, we could wait another 50 years and not have as many lucky breaks as we did in the second half of that campaign.

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Originally Posted by brine3

I see, so when others criticise Trap, you have a go at them, but you yourself are allowed to criticise him.

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No, when people make legitimate criticisms of Trap, I agree with them. When people's criticism of him descend into farce, then I have an issue with it. You seem to think every second of his reign was embarrassing and that the man did nothing right in five years in charge, that's just not true.

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Is it possible to disable this "thanks" thing, I didn't realise that this was a popularity contest.

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It's not a popularity contest. If it was, all of my posts would presumably have the same amount of thanks. It's more of a "making a valid point" contest, if it's a contest at all.

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Originally Posted by brine3

I thought Trap was very good in the first campaign repairing all the damage Stan did, but everything went to crap when Russia came to Dublin and cruelly exposed his system. Trap has had no answers since then. As for qualifying for Euro 2012, we could wait another 50 years and not have as many lucky breaks as we did in the second half of that campaign.

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Considering your appreciation of Trap's record and allowing for your superstitious fixation with a thing called 'luck' instead of analysis, you probably would agree that Trap had a better record with Ireland than your hero Leo had with Poland, who had a bit of a run before imploding fast.
But maybe Leo just didn't have the luck:rolleyes:

I think you are confusing me with somebody else.

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Originally Posted by brine3

I see, so we were never humiliated, if you discount all the matches we were humiliated in.

Not sure about how I feel about you following me around the internet and giving out about my grammar.

I thought Trap was very good in the first campaign repairing all the damage Stan did, but everything went to crap when Russia came to Dublin and cruelly exposed his system. Trap has had no answers since then. As for qualifying for Euro 2012, we could wait another 50 years and not have as many lucky breaks as we did in the second half of that campaign.

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Do you not know the meaning of 'continually'?
Not following anyone especially, just pointing out when people talk consistently, or should that be 'continually', talk rubbish...

And how were we lucky in the 'second half of that campaign'? Like to see you explain that one to Richard Dunne...

I was one of the few that said before that game we were going to get found out and cruelly exposed the way we played. this was the game and the turning point for me, and he never addressed this. 2 late goals when Russia pulled their foot off the gas papered over the cracks somewhat but the naysayers of doom were wrong and this was the start of it.

We got away with it again until the Euros because the opposition were so poor. That game against Russia on another day could have been 3 or 4 -0, and although it was a great point and a great performance from Dunne, it didn't make any difference to us qualifying in the end.

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Originally Posted by brine3

I think you are confusing me with somebody else.

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Perhaps Bennocelt then, you guys all moan the same.:D
Please excuse the mix up.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Do you not know the meaning of 'continually'?
Not following anyone especially, just pointing out when people talk consistently, or should that be 'continually', talk rubbish...

And how were we lucky in the 'second half of that campaign'? Like to see you explain that one to Richard Dunne...

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We were comprehensively outplayed in Moscow, completely destroyed. If it wasn't for Richard Dunne we would have indeed lost three or four nil. Thank goodness for him. I'm sure Dunne would be the first to say we were lucky to come away from Moscow with the point, if you asked him.

We were outplayed by the Armenians in Dublin as well, but managed to get their keeper sent off.

Then we were given the weakest team in the playoffs, and they obliged by self-destructing.

The writing was on the wall, it was clear that we were going to be cannon fodder at the Euros, and we were: statistically the worst team in the history of the European Championship Finals.

Trap says it's only the result that matters. I don't agree. If we had tried to play football and just missed out on the Euros then fair enough. I wouldn't complain. That's how Mick managed to hold on to his job after two failed campaigns. I had no complaints at the time that he was given a third campaign to secure qualification. You could see in the Euro 2000 qualifiers that the team were at least playing football and improving. I prefer that than scraping through to a tournament with Trap's hoofball and then getting horribly found out on the world stage at a major tournament. Call me old-fashioned, but I like teams that play football. I'm an Irish football fan. But a football fan first, and Irish fan second.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd prefer to see Ireland win with a goal off Jon Walters' left arse-cheek than watch us play tippy-tappy football and lose. If you want to watch something pretty for the sake of pretty, go and watch ballet, because you have no place in a football stadium. Make any other criticisms of Trap you like, but "is it nice to watch?" is utterly insignificant compared to "is it effective?". Ultimately, Trap's style was found out to be ineffective. That should be what he's judged on, not whether Person X who sits 35 rows back from the touchline thought the 3-2 defeat to Macedonia or Albania was fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by brine3

We were comprehensively outplayed in Moscow, completely destroyed. If it wasn't for Richard Dunne we would have indeed lost three or four nil. Thank goodness for him. I'm sure Dunne would be the first to say we were lucky to come away from Moscow with the point, if you asked him.

We were outplayed by the Armenians in Dublin as well, but managed to get their keeper sent off.

Then we were given the weakest team in the playoffs, and they obliged by self-destructing.

The writing was on the wall, it was clear that we were going to be cannon fodder at the Euros, and we were: statistically the worst team in the history of the European Championship Finals.

Trap says it's only the result that matters. I don't agree. If we had tried to play football and just missed out on the Euros then fair enough. I wouldn't complain. That's how Mick managed to hold on to his job after two failed campaigns. I had no complaints at the time that he was given a third campaign to secure qualification. You could see in the Euro 2000 qualifiers that the team were at least playing football and improving. I prefer that than scraping through to a tournament with Trap's hoofball and then getting horribly found out on the world stage at a major tournament. Call me old-fashioned, but I like teams that play football. I'm an Irish football fan. But a football fan first, and Irish fan second.

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But we didn't, weren't 'outplayed' and it's Ireland's 'fault' they were given Estonia.
Albeit undoubtedly fixed after the Paris farce, but that wasn't our fault either!!

Pretty much everyone agrees, besides one or two, Trap's football was fairly desperate to watch but it even got us a point in Sweden, as recently as this year, when were the better team. You might even say we 'outplayed' them.
:rolleyes:
As for the Euros, we were up against 3 of the best teams in the whole tournament, including the two finalists. Even a great Irish side would have struggled to get much out of them.

Pretty much no-one minds you slagging Trapp, but some sense of perspective ​would be good...

If you don't think we were outplayed in Moscow then you are living on another planet.

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Call me old-fashioned, but I'd prefer to see Ireland win with a goal off Jon Walters' left arse-cheek than watch us play tippy-tappy football and lose. If you want to watch something pretty for the sake of pretty, go and watch ballet, because you have no place in a football stadium.

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Football is the beautiful game. You just don't understand.

Either that, or you are Mario Rosenstock and you are doing a Graeme Souness pish take. In which case, I applaud you.

But we weren't completely destroyed in Moscow. We drew.
Get over it.

And the 'outplayed' is in reference to your own usage re.Armenia at home...a game we won.