Gavin Bazunu G Standard Liege (loan from Southampton) b.2002

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Originally Posted by Jd2793

bazunu was touch and go to be no1 according to posters here on friday now after his first very good game in weeks hes a cert. do people realise how ridiculous all of this sounds?

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I don't think it's ridiculous Jd. We have two keepers who have always been close in most people's eyes. One is playing but making mistakes we probably can't afford to make against France and the other has been fairly reliable when called upon for club and country even if he isn't playing enough. If they were two strikers it wouldn't sound ridiculous to discuss.

Bazunu isn't undroppable as much as I like him. I've always favoured him over Kelleher but at the same time I could understand why people thought Kelleher, on the bench in the EPL, was a better choice than Bazunu, playing in L1.

I doubt Kenny was ever considering switching to be fair but if nobody was looking at Gavin's form and thinking it might be a risk I'd be surprised. He probably would have been dropped for McCarthy if McCarthy wasn't injured earlier in the season.

Delighted he's turned that form around in recent weeks. It wasn't just the United game. He's still had a few errors but generally seems much better under Selles. 1 goal conceded in 4 league games is the sort of form that will have Southampton climbing out of the pit.

Bazunu is our only credible starting option currently. That hasn’t changed over the past 4 months.

It's amazing how Bazunu has suddenly become good in some people eyes in recent games. I don't mean anyone on here, its the Twitter idiots I'm talking about.

The supposed uptick in Bazunus form has happened since they changed the manager. Seems to me that he is now playing behind a half decent team compared to earlier in season so he's no longer getting the blame for their defense being sh1te. Also a reason why the goalkeeper stats for him being worst in league are pointless. A goalkeeper is only as good as what's in front of him for the most part. Yes he can play a big part but if the red sea is being parted in front of him every week, there fcuk all he call do.

I've stood on this point from the outset, he's an outstanding keeper, especially given his age, and the fact that he's even in Premiership at this age shows his talent. I think he'll be in a Champions League team in the not too distant future.

Kelleher seems like a good keeper, but I think it could be overstated given that he plays for Liverpool and they have massive support in Ireland. We don't know, considering how little he plays.

Since the start of this season when one of the signed to become 1st choice keeper and the other decided to stay in his comfort zone there was never any decision to be made for me on who should be the Irish #1. I didn't agree with it, but I could understand the argument when Bazunu was only in L1.

At this point unless Bazunu completely falls of a cliff with his form there's shouldn't be any doubt about our goalkeeper choice until Kelleher proves he can be a club keeper

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Kelleher seems like a good keeper, but I think it could be overstated given that he plays for Liverpool and they have massive support in Ireland. We don't know, considering how little he plays.

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I put a lot of stock in how he kept Adrian off the bench for Liverpool - Adrian having had a very decent career of his own - but the longer he doesn't play, the less certain I am of him. He could be really excellent, or he may some day take the O'Hara route into obscurity. I think it's more likely to be close to the former route, but who knows?

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Originally Posted by John83

I put a lot of stock in how he kept Adrian off the bench for Liverpool - Adrian having had a very decent career of his own - but the longer he doesn't play, the less certain I am of him. He could be really excellent, or he may some day take the O'Hara route into obscurity. I think it's more likely to be close to the former route, but who knows?

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That's a fair point, but it's also very different being able to focus week in week out as the main man.

I hope we find out soon

Just for context, this guy's level is Huddersfield. Of course it's only a short highlights reel and maybe he's rubbish at crosses but stil...

I think it's a bit unfair to say Kelleher is "deciding to stay in his comfort zone". He's at one of the best clubs in the world and got to play some key games. Staying at Arsenal until 28(?), barely used, didn't do Emi Martinez any harm.

Of course Kelleher has to take the plunge sometime and I reckon now is about the right time to do it.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think it's a bit unfair to say Kelleher is "deciding to stay in his comfort zone". He's at one of the best clubs in the world and got to play some key games. Staying at Arsenal until 28(?), barely used, didn't do Emi Martinez any harm.

Of course Kelleher has to take the plunge sometime and I reckon now is about the right time to do it.

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To be fair, Martinez had six different loan moves during his time at Arsenal, and had 102 senior appearances behind him before he joined Aston Villa.

Dear god Southampton are terrible at the back,Spurs right back had a good 15/20 yards of space to whack in a goal there,absolutely no chance for the keeper….

Southampton are going down for sure, absolutely played off the park against Crystal Palace today.

Wasn't great for the opener either; didn't get enough distance on the parry and went to ground doing so, leaving a huge target. The defence was asleep as well, which didn't help things. Two shots on target and two goals; not the first time he's had that stat.

A year in the Championship won't be the end of the world at his age anyway.

Not sure what to think about his time at Southampton. Is it a sign he won't be able to make it at EPL level? Possibly but I still think it was probably just the wrong move. As much as I've been in favour of him playing as many games as possible, he's also sacrificed the kind of coaching and development Kelleher got by staying at Liverpool. I've argued the opposite before but as with most things, there are grey areas. Would Bazunu have been better off going back to City for a season as #2 or 3 and working with the best coaches and keepers than being thrown into that Southampton defence with a merry go round of coaches? I'd say his confidence is absolutely shot at this stage. He's a strong lad but the constant managerial changes and the fans getting on his back can't be good.

As you say stu, a spell in the Championship might be for the best. It might have been a better step from League One in the first place. That's if Southampton keep him.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Not sure what to think about his time at Southampton. Is it a sign he won't be able to make it at EPL level?

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You sound like me not, otoh!

So I guess I should sound like you in this strange mirror-land. I don't think it's a sign he won't be able to make it at EPL level. That's not to say he definitely will make it of course - Southampton previously spent €20m or so on Angus Gunn from Man City, he flopped quite badly, and five years later he's a solid Championship keeper.

But he's 21. Time is on his side.

Would he have been better off as Man City's #2 or 3? Would he have been Man City's #2 or 3? Backup keeper seems unlikely based on his performances this season; Man City would surely have wanted someone more ready for the Premier League? Third choice keeper is nothing. I still think he made the right move. But maybe leaving was the right move and Southampton were the wrong club, so if they were the only permanent option then maybe another loan or trying to make third choice at City were the right move after all. It's not black and white, as you say.

But I think it's good that there seems to be a more rounded view of him of late, one which doesn't pump him up as a world beater all the time but acknowledges he's making mistakes and has a lot to learn. Even on this thread there's posts which say he doesn't make the same mistake twice or that Southampton's poor defensive record is because of the defenders not the keeper (though xG stats, and I know I know, dispute that and say he's conceded about 15 more than an average keeper would have. It's a lot), and there's a marked difference in reaction when, say, Kelleher conceded two soft goals against Latvia (although I don't think he could have done much about the deflection) and when Bazunu conceded two soft goals against Armenia. I've said it before, but it's created a divide on here unlike any other two players I can remember and I don't know why.

He'll be grand if we take a more balanced view of things I think. Ditto Kelleher. Let them fight it out and we can get back to worrying about whether we'll have any wingbacks yet by the time Coleman hits 40.

(Also, I never realised Bazunu's mother was Irish. Same as Idah I think?)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You sound like me not, otoh!

So I guess I should sound like you in this strange mirror-land. I don't think it's a sign he won't be able to make it at EPL level. That's not to say he definitely will make it of course - Southampton previously spent €20m or so on Angus Gunn from Man City, he flopped quite badly, and five years later he's a solid Championship keeper.

But he's 21. Time is on his side.

Would he have been better off as Man City's #2 or 3? Would he have been Man City's #2 or 3? Backup keeper seems unlikely based on his performances this season; Man City would surely have wanted someone more ready for the Premier League? Third choice keeper is nothing. I still think he made the right move. But maybe leaving was the right move and Southampton were the wrong club, so if they were the only permanent option then maybe another loan or trying to make third choice at City were the right move after all. It's not black and white, as you say.

But I think it's good that there seems to be a more rounded view of him of late, one which doesn't pump him up as a world beater all the time but acknowledges he's making mistakes and has a lot to learn. Even on this thread there's posts which say he doesn't make the same mistake twice or that Southampton's poor defensive record is because of the defenders not the keeper (though xG stats, and I know I know, dispute that and say he's conceded about 15 more than an average keeper would have. It's a lot), and there's a marked difference in reaction when, say, Kelleher conceded two soft goals against Latvia (although I don't think he could have done much about the deflection) and when Bazunu conceded two soft goals against Armenia. I've said it before, but it's created a divide on here unlike any other two players I can remember and I don't know why.

He'll be grand if we take a more balanced view of things I think. Ditto Kelleher. Let them fight it out and we can get back to worrying about whether we'll have any wingbacks yet by the time Coleman hits 40.

(Also, I never realised Bazunu's mother was Irish. Same as Idah I think?)

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I think anyone reading it would get a balanced view as most people are just putting up opposing arguments that are sensible enough. I think it's been pretty civil here and on the Kelleher thread (in contrast to the Kenny or Celtic/Irish youngsters threads for example). Everyone sees two promising keepers for the most part. I don't think I've ever put Bazunu up as a world beater. I've always said he has a long way to go. They both do. We don't have many coming through who are the complete article or at the peak of their powers. Cullen maybe as he's at the right age at least. Hopefully he has another level to get to though.

I think you and I agree on way more than we disagree. Most of the hyperbole probably comes from our collective desperation for the national team to improve and the associated need for promising players to come in and set the world alight. I saw someone ask if Collins was better than McGrath on Twitter a few months back. At least foot.ie tends to be more reasonable than that.

We'll be fine at wingback. Lyons and Farrugia either side. Rovers to the rescue.......;)

I think it's been civil but definitely biased (on both sides). Certainly way different to the Celtic youngsters thread for sure. But the example I gave, of Kelleher being slated for the two goals against Latvia while little was said about Bazunu's two against Armenia, is definitely there. I think you've been more balanced in general, though I do recall you claiming earlier in the season that he'd had a few great performances when he hadn't had any stand-out games really. I tend to find the bias a bit frustrating. (Not just on this thread; I've given out about green-tinted observations on other threads as well. The Idah one in particular I think)

I think the desperation for good players to come through is definitely part of it alright. I think there's also an element that we all want to lay claim to being the first to call a player as a genuine international prospect, and when we do we pin our colours to that player. You can see it a lot in the earlier stages of a fair few threads. It leads to a bit of blindness.

foot certainly tends to be more reasonable than Twitter; not a high bar granted! I quite like it for that (as I'm sure most of us on here do). Some of the stuff on YBIG can be way over the top on the odd occasion I check, so we've got that going for us too. I think I mentioned before the guy who back in October or something put up a table which showed Bazunu was statistically ranked third best keeper in the Premier League, and wouldn't back down from that even when it was pointed out the list was ranked alphabetically.

Touch wood Kelleher gets a move in the summer though; then next season will be properly interesting.

Less than two years ago, you thought Bazunu would be third choice at Portsmouth. You are now hinting that Bazunu (21 years old, 14 senior caps, most minutes by an Irish player in the PL this season) is not “a genuine international prospect”? And in another thread, you lament the goals scored by a semi-pro footballer in a semi-pro division as a reflection on our current striking options.

Yeah, thanks for keeping it reasonable. I share the frustration.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Less than two years ago, you thought Bazunu would be third choice at Portsmouth.

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You mean this one? (My boldface.) That would seem to be a fairly unreasonable twisting of his meaning. Not that anyone ever does that here.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Portsmouth are a bit of a strange one - their keeper was Player of the Year last year, and an ever-present. Had been with the club three seasons, played 135 games, called up by Scotland - and then got released on a free, only to join Charlton, who had finished literally one place about them in the league. It'd be interesting to know why they did that - it seems they were unable to agree a new deal, but you'd hardly imagine Charlton would be offering much more than Portsmouth as they're both similar-sized clubs. Is it that he was a big earner and they felt his salary would be better apportioned across a squad? But then he signed from Shrewsbury three years ago; you'd have thought they'd have had bigger earners.

They've only one keeper left after the summer, and the manager has said the reserve keeper (who was first-choice for a few months in 2019/20) has a "great opportunity" to re-establish himself as number 1 (but then he would say that) and that he was looking to bring in two new keepers, including a youngster as third choice (and you would hope that's not going to be Bazunu!)

August/September will be interesting anyway if Gavin does go there.

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According to a fella I met on the bus yesterday, there isn't a huge gap between the two keepers and they both have great potential. As a result, the narcissism of minor differences comes into play at this point and people end up taking more radical positions than they would normally intend.

Don't shoot the messenger, that's just what the man said.

Time will tell - maybe an obvious gap in ability will emerge between the two- I hope they both have great careers.

(Bazunu Ire #1 4evah :D )

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Originally Posted by ifk101

You are now hinting that Bazunu (21 years old, 14 senior caps, most minutes by an Irish player in the PL this season) is not “a genuine international prospect”?

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Reading wouldn't be a strong point for you, would it?

This is not what I said. And John has clarified that other things you've said I said aren't what I said.

Who said what, or are people just saying said too much?