I don't think that's fair. There are teams in most leagues around Europe that have small budgets and fanbases and are content to just keep the show on the road each year.
Printable View
I don't think that's fair. There are teams in most leagues around Europe that have small budgets and fanbases and are content to just keep the show on the road each year.
I read it as that we wouldn't be able to get promoted into the Premier cos the "bigger" teams would keep finishing ahead of us. Any team has a place in any division if they get there fairly (the more so if they're sustainable).
Well at the rate clubs go bust in this country he might just have a point.
edit: actually no that's circular reasoning
And to be fair, UCD had to go head to head with one of the biggest budgets in Ireland to get promoted. They earned their place in the Premier Division through excellent football on a low budget, and kept it the same way. I don't think they'll ever have a secure place in the Premier Division, but they'll do a grand enough job of yo-yoing for a long time imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Thats it. There's absolutely no doubt that UCD are in the Premier Division on merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
My own club being one of them for most of its existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
My point is that arguing that UCD shouldn't be in the league is ridiculous when they've proved they can compete, even with the handicap of no money/fans. If fans of other teams think thats wrong, they have it arseways IMO as its the clubs with money/fans that continue to fail that are the problem
This is going off topic, but our two recent relegations were both in ten-team leagues. With a 12-team Premier, we've never really been a yo-yo side. I think our success is down to the niche we have - other clubs go for experienced players, often at the expense of good, young players (look at the amount of players we've picked up who've been discarded from other Dublin clubs), whereas we're the only ones really focussing on youth development. That's also our restriction too though, cos you need experienced players in a squad to progress, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
I admire UCD, decent stadium, lovely set up, play a lovely brand of football, never in financial trouble.
The immediate concern for Fingal has be working capital if they have enough to form some sort of a budget for next season they will survive but if they do survive they will radically have to change there philosophy try to get young player for the area like wexford do , it looks like their days of being one the big boys are gone.
In fairness were they ever. There is a massive difference between being a big club and paying big wages.Quote:
Originally Posted by D.24saint
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_FAI_Cup_FinalQuote:
Originally Posted by redobit
A distant memory at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
So you think winning the FAI Cup propels you to big club status?
Sure Drogheda managed to win a league and came within a whisker of beating Dynamo Kyiv and I still wouldn't next to consider them a big club. Fingal don't come close.
... never did understand the depth of anti Fingal feeling on here and still not convinced. Is itQuote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
(a) because they forced up playing wages ? biggest wage bill I am aware of was St Pats in Johnny Mac's last season, never caused a comment on foot.ie so it aint a wages inflation issue
(b) Most/all money from one source and that a dreaded developer. Again same could (but never is) be said about St Pats so cant be the reason
(c) Low crowds. Really ? UCD and Mons posters criticising crowds ?
(d) Spending money they dont have. Never seen any evidence this is the case. Would expect new club to need to run a manageable loss in the hope of recouping it when they become established. No doubt will now have to radically reduce expenditure but it can be done (St Pats proved it) so why cant Sporting Fingal ?
(e) No club history. Ah, thats why Shels and Bohs (two oldest clubs in LOI) have been so immune from stick on this forum :eek:.
(f) new club that had the audacity to be successfull so early in its life ? Always amazed me how the same fans that bleat on about lack of investment in LOI moan about Fingal attracting, well, investment. St Pats near 3 million wage bill OK but Fingals wage bill not ? Perhaps because St pats won nothing that season ?
As for the "bad publicity for the for the LOI" nonsence, What bad publicity have they generated ?
g) There's too many clubs in Dublin with too little investment as it is, all ego stuff from Seery and now Fingal, would have been much better to do a deal with Shels and move them out to Fingal or something like that.
Why Shels ? or indeed any existng club ? If there are too many clubs then some will cease to operate (as with Dublin City). If I were investing in a LOI club I would probobly opt for a new "green field site" scenario rather than take on the baggage (financial) assosiated with many of the current crop of clubs. Would the LOI be better if a certain developer kept his money in his pocket rather than give it to SF ? Because there is no basis (that I am aware of) to believe he would have given it to any other club. Fingal Co Council participation in the project is similar, if not SF were they likely to assist Shels/Bohs ? Doubt it.Quote:
Originally Posted by de bowez
Sporting Fingal set up the same as any LOI club. Did shams have a history before 1949 ? UCD before the 1970's etc ? Every club has to be given the chance to build an identity. Incidentally, there are not that many teams close to Santry Stadium certainly not that SF are "pulling" fans away from, I would guess the least of Shels or Bohs problems is SF luring away their support.
YOu mean the Shams that are league members since all but the first year and formed in 1899/1901 (depending on who you listen to) or the UCD club side thats about the same age?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
St. Patrick's Athletic aren't owned or were formed by a County Council.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Kelleher spent silly money out of his own accord which had no effects on the integrity of local public administration. His business empire gained nothing from Pats and the public lost nothing from Pats.
Fingal County Council approached Gannon to fund Sporting Fingal.
Gannon's business empire is entirely dependent on planning permission from the same County Council, Gannon saying no Sporting Fingal would be biting the hand that feeds you.
Gannon's only previous involvement in football was with Malahide United, conveniently that involvment resulted in a major development.
The day before Gannon's loans are taken over by NAMA/the taxpayer, Fingal County Council amazingly provide Gannnon with planning permission for a massive development in an area already blighted by Ghost Estates thus adding value to Gannon's land banks.
Let's cut the to the chase, Gannon and Fingal County Council have a completely inappropriate relationship that has left behind a legacy of disasterous planning upon the Fingal area. It is exactly this type of crony relationship involving public administration and businessman that has bankrupted this country into the hands of the IMF and devastated people's lives. In reality Gannon hasn't lost a cent on Sporting Fingal but the extension of Gannon's cosy relationship with the council and the awarding of further unnecessary PP will cost the residents of Fingal.
Oh I hear you say 'what has this got to do with football?' Everything. No county council or public body should ever be running a football club for the conflict of interest as outlined above. Sporting Fingal are receiving money they would not ever receive if they were a regular newly formed football club, this is putting all other clubs at a financial disadvantage and is not providing a level playing field. I can guarantee you Sporting Fingal aren't going to have much bother finding a replacement 'investor' for Gannon.
Just on some of your other points
When Sporting Fingal was set up Fingal CoCo were saying that the main reason for forming the club was due to a high demand for LOI football in the area which has instantly proven to be codswallop. Nobody expects new clubs to instantly pick up large crowds but when an new entity comes in splashing the cash trying to buy trophies and trips to Europe while making wild claims that there is such a large demand for their formation is perfectly understandable for LOI fans to be asking what is the f-ing point.Quote:
(c) Low crowds. Really ? UCD and Mons posters criticising crowds ?
Taking out Gannon's money they lost €825,358 in 2009. That is what is called a completely unmanagable loss for a club with a maximum few hundred fans, no ground, no external sources of income without massive subsidising. Pats have a ground, Pats have a decent fanbase (by LOI standards), Pats have external sources of income and also a decent manager who knows how to work a tight budget - that's how they could adjust.Quote:
(d) Spending money they dont have. Never seen any evidence this is the case. Would expect new club to need to run a manageable loss in the hope of recouping it when they become established. No doubt will now have to radically reduce expenditure but it can be done (St Pats proved it) so why cant Sporting Fingal ?
'Investment' is what has got the league into the mess over the past few years because investment into a LOI club is a black hole and investors always cut and run.Quote:
(f) new club that had the audacity to be successfull so early in its life ? Always amazed me how the same fans that bleat on about lack of investment in LOI moan about Fingal attracting, well, investment. St Pats near 3 million wage bill OK but Fingals wage bill not ? Perhaps because St pats won nothing that season ?
Investment does not equal sustainability. All I've heard and read LOI fans talk about is clubs living within their means and despite all the negatives over the past few season the league is getting closer to the point where all clubs will be living within their means after the excesses of the past decade. Fingal and Bohs are the two remaining clubs who will sooner or later have to go through their adjustment to sustainability and the sooner they get that over and done with the better it will be for the league. Sporting Fingal's investment is an investment in Gannon's quest for planning permission, an investment in players wages and an investment in Fingal County's Council desire for publicity - not a single cent of investment into Sporting Fingal is going into facilities, schoolboy clubs and football development in the region, the council fund that from their budget anyway.
Bad publicity for being yet another unsustainable LOI entity on the inevitable road to ruin? Was what happened with Shels, Rovers, Cork, Derry, Drogheda, Dublin City, Kildare not bad publicity?Quote:
As for the "bad publicity for the for the LOI" nonsence, What bad publicity have they generated ?
I think most LOI clubs anyway were set up by individual/s who had a love/collective love for the game instead of being set up by a bunch bureaucrats in a plush county council officeQuote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Any loi fan who is concerned with being a so called " big club " is delusional if you ask me . There are no big clubs in Irish football and as we all know very well things change in the blink of an eye . Derry and cork where considered big clubs and look what happened to them , dundalk where one of the most successful clubs in the country and spent the best part of a decade in the first division . Irish football is a minority sport that is completely ignored for the most part , it laughable to call any loi club big tbh .
i'd say you where itching to get that in. Realistically though there are only 3 big clubs in Ireland. And they are Rovers, Bohs and Dundalk. Even though LOI is a minority sport ask any man on the street they will tell you who they are. With the possible exception of Derry, the rest don't even surface. Cork have too many previous entities that my oul man still says Hibs because he couldn't be bothered with the other. The bigness of a club is built over an large space of time and takes in the highs and lows. the good press with the bad and being able to rise above and struggle for survival every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndrog
Back to topic. I feel for the Fingal projects demise. A few guys took a risk and unfortunately it didn't work. Hopefully they (Fingal FC) can continue on and find their proper level.
If there is one thing is the loi mantra of "I told you so". Like ffs when are we going to all stand beside one another and support each other through the good times and bad.