Come on DeLorean....
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Come on DeLorean....
Okay so, I take it back. Carragher clearly went about organising a mob to break Lucas Neil's knee caps, but the deal fell through because Neil was in the company of somebody Carragher knew one day. The story wasn't at all exaggerated for the purposes of a more interesting autobiography, in fact, it was probably toned down.
Back on topic, young Grealish better hope he isn't subject to tackles like that with his shin pads, not that grown ups ones did Carra any good.
No need for the sarcasm and surliness, DeLorean. If you are going to take back something you said, be genuine about it or don't do it at all. We are all grown ups here. If you weren't compelled to find faults - even where none exist - in what I post, this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
For God's sake, even SkStu thinks you took it too far this time.
I think Grealish has enough wits about him not to get his mates to commit GBH on someone because he got his legs broken playing a contact sport.
Well obviously I wasn't really taking it back. I just wanted to move on as I'm sure that will be forced upon us anyway seeing as we've drifted miles off topic. I believe what I said, agree to differ, okay so.
Yeah, identity isn't really something that can be conveniently quantified, and it certainly isn't what you could call a zero-sum situation either where identification with one badge, group or community impinges upon or negates any possibility of identification with another. Identity can be overlapping, fluid and, of course, very much subjective. I mean, if Grealish does eventually switch, it won't mean he has no sentiment for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Was he known for being nasty and getting into trouble? Not necessarily disputing what you say. I'm just not up on my Carragher private life. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
The story about Neill just reads like it's been slightly dramatised to me, and there's obvious motive there for Carragher to have used poetic licence seeing as he was using the anecdote to promote his autobiography in the Daily Mirror. I would guess something like this is closer to the truth; he would have felt bitterness towards Neill, naturally, and had perhaps discussed with his friends how he deplored the tackle, probably even cursing Neill. He then gets a call from his mates one day to say they've seen Neill and Thomson in the Trafford Centre and they jokingly ask if Carragher wants them to beat Neill up. Carragher probably laughs it off and says "no". It's just too implausible for me to believe that Carragher would be stupid enough to write something like that if it was a completely serious account of an incident that had actually happened as it not only gives a very unsavoury impression, but it's teetering on the criminal. The Trafford Centre is an exceptionally busy shopping centre with CCTV everywhere; you'd have to be an absolute idiot to beat someone up in there if you were hoping to get away with it. If Carragher had actually wanted Neill hit, I'm sure he could very easily have found out Neill's address or regular whereabouts from his friends at Blackburn.
Last bit on Carragher (sorry for dragging us off topic). The story being referenced is the one that doesn't read well to me irrespective of what spin he is putting on it. However, there has been for a few years on the Everton forums talk of Carragher around town but mostly the friends he has away from the game moreso than anything he has done per se. He grew up in a rough part of town and his friends are an assortment of thieves and dealers if rumours are to be believed - granted this is Liverpool we are talking about ;) . Doesn't mean Carragher is a dealer or thief but there is a level of guilt by association or acquiescence...
Anyway, not worth this being a big deal. Hes a bit of a scally. Hes not the only scally in the world.
I'm not going to try and convince people that someone saying they called off a gang assault on somebody means that someone called off a gang assault on somebody - suffice to say that the words were spoken/dictated from Carragher himself and his book wasn't in the fiction section. It is what it is at this stage...
Just to add on to what SkStu said, the same rumors that surround Carragher have always surrounded Gerrard too. It's common knowledge. And Carragher is renowned for his tempestuousness, forthrightness and (lack of) intelligence.
I find it hard to believe that Carragher wasn't retrospectively punished for this considering how Roy Keane was hauled over the coals for the Haaland comments.
I have only heard good things about Jamie. He's meant to be very decent and good with the fans. I met Gerrard in a Glasgow pub before a Celtic match years ago with a load of Gerrard's mates from Huyton and found them really sound. They were singing all the Celtic songs and took the banter off this mad Everton fan from Derry in the pub. Gerrard was laughing his head off at the songs your man was singing.
an Everton supporting mate from Limerick met Jamie after he retired from playing with England in Liverpool and Jamie turned to him and said "**** it la (Scouse) it's only England, who gives a ****"!! He said he was a good man who didn't take himself too seriously. This fella is Everton mad, so he wouldn't praise a Liverpool player unnecessarily!!!!
Irish face, English hair.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/spor...ingham-9109760
So which is it, rumours or common knowledge? Is it rumoured to be common knowledge or is it common knowledge that there are rumours? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Yeah TOWK - which is it?
17 months before he turns 21.
Wonder how many posts this thread will have clock up by then?
30 a day for 510 day could be over 3000.
Hot off the presses!
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...-31170206.html
Vic Hogan article on the Grealish situation.
Wow, that's some serious hysterical armchair managing in that article. I mean, I know we're all a little excited about Grealish's performance at Wembley but when Martin O'Neill had the chat with the family and said that Jack would be taking time to focus on his club career or consider his options or whatever, I took that to mean that his final decision would likely not be made until after this season and I don't think his performance last Sunday changes that - it probably is just too close to the Scotland game for him to be considered. It just confirms that Grealish is a step closer to becoming a top player, which is great. But I don't think there's any need for Martin O'Neill to start playing what amounts to mind games by trying to "force Grealish's hand". He had the talk with the family, the lad knows that we're pretty much ready to promote him to the senior squad (the September game against Gibraltar is likely the most realistic first opportunity, unless some summer friendlies are organised late), so the ball is in his court and he'll either stay with us or switch to England and there aren't any machinations that will change that. Although perhaps we could show him some videos to show why he might stick with Ireland:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
- The time of our lives ("The Nation holds its breath"):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24UKqJIKm8
- "Look at these scenes, just look at these scenes":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIexE4B1GHY
- And if that doesn't work, how about kicks of another kind?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0v_pu6miJ8
Exactly, Hogan has the patience and composure of a six year old waiting to open their Christmas presents. People seriously need to relax. If Grealish is just waiting for England to come along, which Hogan seems to assume, then what good would it do to force his hand at this early stage by going against Grealish's request in utter panic mode? He obviously wouldn't accept the call up as it will have gone against the original deal, and the obvious and actually relevant excuse will be that he still needs to focus on Aston Villa, which is actually far more believable now than it was when he originally said it. There's just no way that Grealish would bring that kind of controversy on himself with Villa fighting relegation and preparing for a cup final. Sherwood, who has given some fair, sensible advise recently (publicly at least), would freak as well which wouldn't help our cause long term. I think it's fair game to call him up in September though but there's no need to come across all desperate and panicy just yet. Thankfully MON has more sense than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
Ah now... when did we become this precious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Hogan
And more pleasing to DeLorean's eyes.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/side...land-1.2188251
It was all downhill after he got Johnny Marr's surname wrong. There's also a ham-fisted metaphor about Liam & Noel Gallagher (both England fans) and their encyclopedic knowledge of Irish sweets.
"Maybe Grealish is privately smarting that he hasn’t yet had a full senior call-up, and if he does end up wearing an England shirt in two years’ time, then O’Neill and Roy Keane will have to live with the accusations that they allowed the real thing to walk away".
Poor Martin & Roy. They will have to live with the fact that Grealish didn't accept senior call ups for the Oman & USA games and they'll have to live with the fact that Grealish wasn't getting in touch with them to know where he/they stood.
How will they live with themselves.
I thought Noel Gallagher supported Ireland?
he does, as far as I remember he even said he'd write a song for the team if they qualified for a tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
<EDIT>
He did too, but it was a lot further back than I thought: http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/oth...ong-26195.html
I remember seeing pictures of them in England and Manchester City kits in my older brothers' music magazines back in the day. I also remember at least one of them doing guest punditry before an Intl. tournament England match. That is where I picked up the association.
According to this interview - http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/...-youre-winning - Noel does follow England, but he's an Ireland fan ahead of them
Quote:
“I do follow England because they have some good players,” Noel allows, “but when push comes to shove I’m in the Ireland end. I’ve always supported Ireland since I was a kid. Oasis were asked to do the England song and go on at Wembley – my uncles would have killed me. I don’t really like football songs – I could write a tune but football lyrics are always a bit daft.”
Hold on a minute. He was actually using Marr's birthname and making a point in doing so. Johnny Marr was born Johnny Maher: http://www.nme.com/news/johnny-marr/67272 Marr changed his name because of how Maher was being pronounced. The Gallaghers have their second names predominantly pronounced as 'Gallacher' and that's the point he was making.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
As far as a birth cert is concerned, the author was on the money.
I think he was worried people would think he was North African.
(Foot.ie anorak joke)
Not the greatest of pieces by Hogan, I'm afraid. It's very speculative. Just because Martin is reticent and habitually careful with his words in public doesn't mean there's been no warmth behind the scenes. Martin met up with Jack and his father and they discussed many things beyond football. And, we've been over this before, but it's still unfair to simply assume that Grealish is just cynically waiting on an England call-up. He has rejected the FA before and if they come calling again, we simply don't know if he will accept.
On Noel Gallagher; he is a big fan of Ireland and Celtic. Pretty sure there's a video of him talking about Celtic and Irishness on YouTube. Would look for a link except I'm on a work computer and YouTube is blocked. He might follow England too, but it's that idea of overlapping/dual identity again. Very simple really. Don't know why it's so difficult for some people to grasp that people can affiliate with more than one identity at the same time... Tiresome.
Not really, there's a lot that's gone on that I'm not mad about. The 'year off' doesn't sit too well with me, when the U21's wouldn't have tied him down anyway. Concentrating on his club career seemed a lame excuse, every young player has to do that but they generally don't exclude themselves from internationals. I also feel it's a bit of an unnecessary drama, it's an important decision for him but it's not one that's going to get any easier (unless he is just holding out for England) so just make it. There's only so much thinking one can do over any decision and he's had plenty of time. All that being said, this is not the right moment for him to decide, certainly from his clubs point of view. It would be an unwelcome distraction, certainly if he chose us, no point in saying otherwise. September should reveal all.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Good article by Ian Rush on Jack Grealish
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31170118.html
Heh. I didn't think it was good. Pretty simplistic stuff IMO. Like something an ex-pro picking up a few bob on the side would write.
Rousing though.
It's worse than that. Johnny didn't have a quiff - he's thinking of Morrissey.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Don't think it is unfair personally - there's a world of difference between trying to get him into an underage set-up and senior honours, particularly when it comes to a player who has a very difficult decision to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
If Grealish now believes he could realistically feature as an English international regularly, then it's probably game changer for him.
I wouldn't ordinarly support calls like Hogan's, but in this instance I think he has a point. The issue I'm most worried about is every match - every squad announcement - from now until Grealish gets off the fence will be overshadowed by him.
No point saying it won't - these eligibility only ever get louder and more distracting. Grealish is old enough, he's smart enough and the tail is utterly wagging the dog now on this one (I mean, was no-one else peeved about his dad saying he'll return to the U21s? We're way past that point chum and we can *see* what you're playing at).
I don't like it when players dictate, even if they are Grealish. If he's going to England (as I expect) then best it's sooner rather than later. And best of luck to him if he does.
June might be too soon - and probably bad faith given the year off deal - but call him up for the seniors in August/September.
On to the player himself - Villa made a comedy start against Man City, but Grealish has quietly become central to almost everything they're doing to get back in the game.
It's not the likeliest of scenarios, but if Villa were to go down I suspect English interest in him would wane. Out of sight is out of mind and all that.
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/entertain...noel-gallagherQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Quote:
What about choosing between supporting England and the Republic of Ireland? Gallagher answers without a hint of hesitation: “Oh, Republic of Ireland; I don’t consider myself to be English at all.”
Grealish just fouled the City keeper for 2-2 :)
Call him up Trap.
(well not easy to see on the stream, going by the commentator who was not sure either)
about 1.40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wlI18s6ACY
Here's that Noel Gallagher video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WonEbYXPa5k
It features a selection of quotes. For some reason, I had it in my head he spoke.
"bail that out u f*ckers!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
It would be grossly naïve to deny the possibility, but are we allowing the Anglocentric hype/pressure since last weekend to influence our thoughts or sense of balance to the point where we straightforwardly assume it must also be affecting Grealish, despite his father informing us "nothing has changed"? Grealish hasn't beckoned England at all; in fact, he re-affirmed his intention to be back in the green come September.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Did Kevin Grealish definitely say it was only the under-21s for whom Jack would return? A few journalists have assumed that's what was meant - I acknowledge Fallon (closely connected to the Grealish family?) was one of them - but I'm not sure there's a direct quote. Very much open to correction on that though. (And maybe it's fair to assume it's more than just an interpretation of ambiguity if Fallon said it?)Quote:
Grealish is old enough, he's smart enough and the tail is utterly wagging the dog now on this one (I mean, was no-one else peeved about his dad saying he'll return to the U21s? We're way past that point chum and we can *see* what you're playing at).
I don't like it when players dictate, even if they are Grealish. If he's going to England (as I expect) then best it's sooner rather than later. And best of luck to him if he does.
I can see why the present uncertain state of affairs could be exasperating, but that's what placing a wager can entail and we have only ourselves to blame if we are indeed being "strung along". I think we're voluntarily allowing ourselves to be "exploited" (if that is what is happening) rather than it being a case of Grealish dictating the game. I'm very much for acknowledging/taking responsibility for that over which we have control, out of self-respect over wallowing in victimhood, and we're allowing the present situation to exist because we very much want to be an option. We stand to gain. (It'd also be very hypocritical for me to cry "foul" here yet consistently defend the rights and integrity of northern-born Irish nationals like McClean or Duffy who have switched to us after a bit of time with the IFA.) The FAI are taking the approach that they hope will bloom a reward worth all the stress and investment. It's a risk and we've been more than happy to have a gamble. If we're happy to simply be an option instead of forcing the issue, we have to accept the ultimate decision if it happens to go against us. Rather than appeasing the lad by giving him his time, O'Neill could issue Grealish an ultimatum tomorrow and we'd be done with it; we'd either have a very talented and committed young player on our hands or we'd be able to devote our attentions to something more worthwhile as Grealish goes his own way and devotes his own efforts solely to making it with England. If he eventually "disrespects" us, it'll very much have been because we've put ourselves in such a position where that's a distinct possibility.
Just to clarify, I say all of the above simply to make a point. I'm not jumping to any conclusions nor am I assuming that we are actually being strung along by a cynical upstart; simply saying that we're more than happy to permit such a situation to be prolonged on account of our own selfish interests, so we shouldn't pretend we're helpless. For what it's worth, I also happen to think that the way O'Neill has been dealing with it is spot on, for now.
I agree. If he wants to return to the green, as clearly expressed, hold him to his word. If he doesn't want a senior call-up come September, my patience will wear thin then, but I'm prepared, out of good honest faith in the integrity and clarity of the spoken word (rather than complete blind naïvity), to take him at his word for now. I don't think I could defend pandering to someone after they've gone back on their word. I'm well aware there's a possibility of it hapening, as there is with anything, but I'd rather not be the one to engage in bad faith first by assuming him to be lying to us.Quote:
June might be too soon - and probably bad faith given the year off deal - but call him up for the seniors in August/September.
Good article. I like how well he calls out the hypocrisy of the lecturing the Brit media is doing and the fact that they couldn't have cared less a week ago. Good to see that coming from someone of Rush's standing.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
He would appreciate the arrogance of the English media having played for a smaller country in Wales. Agreed, good article and great to have you back Stu!
It's the hope that kills you with Grealish really. If only Trap was still in charge, at least we wouldn't have to burden ourselves; we'd already know for sure that hope of seeing a young creative ball-player in the green was a complete waste of time…
Cheers G!Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-700/h--...lagher-004.jpg
Yes indeed. A real irishman...
Don't forget this brother:
http://live4ever.live4evermediall.ne...jack-small.jpg
Another proud irishman.
<MOD EDIT>
The images were giving malware warnings, so I've replaced them with similar images from different sites.
Both of whom were born in England.