Darron Gibson

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Originally Posted by Greenbod

No intention of being drawn in to a debate with you....you're credibility just decreases with every post you make (if that's still possible).........but just for other posters (in case they don't know), I want to point out that Giles enjoyed a very successful early career with Man Utd, joining at 16, playing regularly with the first team from the age of 19 to 22 and winning a cup medal in 1963 before requesting a transfer to Leeds. During the time that Giles spent with Leeds they were arguably more successful than Man Utd....in no small part due to Giles's contribution.

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Giles left Man Utd, because he feared he was about to be relegated to the bench by Matt Busby, I'm sure you knew that already. In his own words Giles admitted that he had played poorly in an FA cup semi final and after that he thought Busby's view of him was negative from there on in.

But yeh I haven't an interest in having a debate with you either. At least I started with some credibility, you have started with none.

By the way Man Utd just avoided relegation in 1963. It was also a team which had lost many of it's star players in the Munich crash and was rebuilding. Can you seriously compare that team with a team who has just been in two successive Champions League Finals?

I have no doubt you will try do just that.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Well all I can say is both Giles and Dunphy couldn't make it at Man Utd so they can't really talk.

Giles did go on and do well at Leeds.

It's a tough place to do well at, Man Utd. The recent generation of Utd Players have been world class and delivered some amount of trophies.

Anyone who thinks an up and coming player even at 22 can knock on the door of the first team is deluding themselves. Maybe when Scholes retires, he might have a better chance.

I'd say it's tough for Gibson. He can't get a game in the Premier League and then some people, including on here, expect him to turn up in a Champions League match and run the show.

Give the guy a chance.

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Have to say I agree totally........People expect him to be like keane or viera or something...and then say he is not up to if he has a bad game. I'd say give him more time. First taste of action since injury also.

When Giles was at United, a lot of the players were unhappy with their pay. Anyway Giles was more or less appointed Shop Steward and approached Busby with a list of gripes. Don't think their relationship was ever the same after that.

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Originally Posted by Greenbod

No intention of being drawn in to a debate with you....you're credibility just decreases with every post you make (if that's still possible).........but just for other posters (in case they don't know), I want to point out that Giles enjoyed a very successful early career with Man Utd, joining at 16, playing regularly with the first team from the age of 19 to 22 and winning a cup medal in 1963 before requesting a transfer to Leeds. During the time that Giles spent with Leeds they were arguably more successful than Man Utd....in no small part due to Giles's contribution.

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Was about to reply with the exact same argument to Emmet who, as you say, loses credibilty as a poster in a big way with every post. And there's no arguably about his sucess either, Giles won every domestic trophy with Leeds along with 2 Fairs (UEFA/Europa) Cups when it was arguably a more difficult competition towin then the European Cup (3 or 4 top team from Spain, Italy, Germany, France etc as opposed to 1 team from each in the European Cup) while Man U hit the skids after their Europen Cup win. The year he won his 2nd title with Leeds Man Utd were relegated and he was only denied a European Cup win in 75 by a bribed referee.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Was about to reply with the exact same argument to Emmet who, as you say, loses credibilty as a poster in a big way with every post.

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His credibility account must be heavily overdrawn by now :)

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Was about to reply with the exact same argument to Emmet who, as you say, loses credibilty as a poster in a big way with every post. And there's no arguably about his sucess either, Giles won every domestic trophy with Leeds along with 2 Fairs (UEFA/Europa) Cups when it was arguably a more difficult competition towin then the European Cup (3 or 4 top team from Spain, Italy, Germany, France etc as opposed to 1 team from each in the European Cup) while Man U hit the skids after their Europen Cup win. The year he won his 2nd title with Leeds Man Utd were relegated and he was only denied a European Cup win in 75 by a bribed referee.

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Go back to my original post and tell me where I said Giles didn't do well at Leeds?

It's there in black and white where I said Giles did well at Leeds.

If you want to have a discussion fine. If you want to tell lies and twist things and then accuse me of having little credibility based on you misrepresenting what I said that's different. It's you who has no credibility when you tell lies.

As for saying it was harder to win European competitions then, that's bull. The European Cup in those days featured teams from Malta, Republic of Ireland, Wales, Iceland, Finland, Norway, etc. Shamrock Rovers regularly played big teams like Man Utd in the European Cup. These days, they wouldn't get near the actual Champions League stage. It's far far more difficult to win the Champions League these days, anyone with an ounce of knowledge about soccer knows that. The same year Leeds got to the final, Cork Celtic got to the second round proper where they were trounced 7-1. Yeh, definitely more competitive in those days alright.

Who would you rather play in the European Cup, Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians, etc or the second or third place team from England, Spain or Italy? I know which I'd prefer to play.

By saying the European Cup was harder to win in Giles time than today, your argument and your own credibility has been shot to pieces. You probably should think about saying something dumb like the European Cup was more competitive in those days than today before saying it. Shows you have little knowledge about soccer.

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As for saying it was harder to win European competitions then, that's bull.

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Pretty sure that Drums wrote that the Fairs Cup then was arguably harder to win than the European cup at that time.
Drum's cred is still intact.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

If you want to tell lies and twist things and then accuse me of having little credibility based on you misrepresenting what I said that's different. It's you who has no credibility when you tell lies.

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It's funny that you accuse him of misrepresenting what you've said, given that when he said this:

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Giles won every domestic trophy with Leeds along with 2 Fairs (UEFA/Europa) Cups when it was arguably a more difficult competition towin then the European Cup (3 or 4 top team from Spain, Italy, Germany, France etc as opposed to 1 team from each in the European Cup) while Man U hit the skids after their Europen Cup win.

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you misrepresent him with this:

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

As for saying it was harder to win European competitions then, that's bull.

...By saying the European Cup was harder to win in Giles time than today, your argument and your own credibility has been shot to pieces.

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Great debate lads, but whats all this got to do with Gibson, who btw I think just isnt good enough for us or Man Utd

I thought Gibson did well when he came on in Paris.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Go back to my original post and tell me where I said Giles didn't do well at Leeds?

It's there in black and white where I said Giles did well at Leeds.

If you want to have a discussion fine. If you want to tell lies and twist things and then accuse me of having little credibility based on you misrepresenting what I said that's different. It's you who has no credibility when you tell lies.

As for saying it was harder to win European competitions then, that's bull. The European Cup in those days featured teams from Malta, Republic of Ireland, Wales, Iceland, Finland, Norway, etc. Shamrock Rovers regularly played big teams like Man Utd in the European Cup. These days, they wouldn't get near the actual Champions League stage. It's far far more difficult to win the Champions League these days, anyone with an ounce of knowledge about soccer knows that. The same year Leeds got to the final, Cork Celtic got to the second round proper where they were trounced 7-1. Yeh, definitely more competitive in those days alright.

Who would you rather play in the European Cup, Shamrock Rovers, Bohemians, etc or the second or third place team from England, Spain or Italy? I know which I'd prefer to play.

By saying the European Cup was harder to win in Giles time than today, your argument and your own credibility has been shot to pieces. You probably should think about saying something dumb like the European Cup was more competitive in those days than today before saying it. Shows you have little knowledge about soccer.

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haha brilliant... too busy writing your response before youd read the post you were responding to....

Back to Gibson.

He's been injured for a number of months and is still returning to fitness. Hard to expect him to play the best game of his life returning from injury.

Scholes, Carrick and players like that have an obvious advantage in that they have been there done that worn the tee-shirt. Gibson is still a boy compared to Scholes experience wise.

You cannot judge a player because he cannot get into the United starting 11 for big games. Juan Veron was hailed a great player but struggled to make an impact at Old Trafford. The expectation is so high and you are expected to hit the ground running. Ferguson has favourites at United, Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher. That's who Gibson has to compete against and without getting match time it makes it doubly difficult.

Verson also had trouble spelling his own name, wonder if that was part of his failure at United!

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Originally Posted by MeathDrog

He just doesn't have it. Wes Brown syndrome. If he didn't play for United, there would be no chance he would get a call up.

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Ah hahaha.

Lad, Wes Brown is top quality. 'Fraid I'm not going to take your "judgement" too seriously!

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Verson also had trouble spelling his own name, wonder if that was part of his failure at United!

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Good to see the spelling police are on the ball.

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Originally Posted by Emmet7

Back to Gibson.

He's been injured for a number of months and is still returning to fitness. Hard to expect him to play the best game of his life returning from injury.

Scholes, Carrick and players like that have an obvious advantage in that they have been there done that worn the tee-shirt. Gibson is still a boy compared to Scholes experience wise.

You cannot judge a player because he cannot get into the United starting 11 for big games. Juan Veron was hailed a great player but struggled to make an impact at Old Trafford. The expectation is so high and you are expected to hit the ground running. Ferguson has favourites at United, Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher. That's who Gibson has to compete against and without getting match time it makes it doubly difficult.

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Fair enough points, Emmet - he is behind Fletcher, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Anderson and Hargreaves (when fit) - big ask

Gibson is playing tonight alongside Anderson against a decent enough Spurs side.

I hope Anderson doesn't weigh him down again :)

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Originally Posted by geysir

Gibson is playing tonight alongside Anderson against a decent enough Spurs side.

I hope Anderson doesn't weigh him down again :)

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complety forgot they were on tonight good man :D

Going by Darron's first shot, Mr Magoo would have a better guess at where the goalposts are.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Going by Darron's first shot, Mr Magoo would have a better guess at where the goalposts are.

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Lovely strike from Gibson to give Utd the lead. Well worth having a few sighters when you can hit them like he can.