2021 Season , Arrivals and departures

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Originally Posted by Sonny

Comparing Bolger and Burke to this is apples and oranges. Bolger was a kid signed for Cardiff's academy, and Burkey went to a much higher level than Hearts to a league he just lacks the physical attributes to excel in. He's back here for family and lifestyle reasons, and could easily still be in England if he wanted to be. Had he gone to the level McEneff has he would have undoubtedly been a success. You could just as easily have pointed to Trevor Clarke who is coming back from injury and getting minutes in the Championship, or Big Gav who is starting week in week out in League 1, or Jamie McGrath who is flying in the Scottish Prem.

Of course Hearts are assuming risk signing him; that's how football transfers work. But at 200k I'm absolutely certain they have nabbed a bargain and McEneff will succeed over there. And as a Rovers fan, I accept they there was no option but to sell in the circumstances, but I don't accept it's a good deal for us. I don't think that's short-term thinking at all; this season is absolutely vital to build upon last year and take advantage of the opportunity the new Euro competition offers. That's part of a long-term process of building the club to the point that we aren't getting fleeced by Hearts. Losing McEneff in these circumstances, especially after losing Byrne, is a major blow to that. I don't think there's too much left to say really as we're already going in circles.

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Its a great deal for the rest of us who hope to have our club in the driving seat come next November - McEneff and Byrne moving on in a matter of weeks is almost like other clubs bringing in top players, If we didnt know better ye[d think P6 had a stake in Hearts and Apoel and were hedging their bets on Dundalk getting to conference groups and back in CL by throwing a spanner in the Tallaght works! But seriously though, every football fans knows where ye are coming from the world over maybe with the exception of some Madrid bully boys. Towell, Horgan, McEleney, Hoban, McGrath, Boyle, Gannon, McMillan, Finn, Benson were all key players that Dundalk lost for one reason or another (obviously some returned like Burke). You may not hold them in the high regard as McEneff but they certainly were to varying degrees at Oriel Park. We have never properly replaced Finn and he left in the most frustrating of circumstances and tbh to much amusement from SRFC fans. Towell selling out his ambition to be capped and his footballing soul to play in the lowest EFL tier is such a shame as he could have been lining out v Arsenal, maybe Ireland last Autumn. But thats football as the old saying goes - sentiment is for the fans, its in short supply for most footballers these days. One of the few exceptions from the beaten trail to England or Scotland is Michael Duffy and he too is a returnee from the dazzling lights of Parkhead via some less spectacular surroundings in Scotland.

(When ye think of the quality Derry players plying their trade elsewhere in top end LoI clubs over the last number of seasons it muxt really rankle and what a Derry side that would be! McEneff pulling the strings in midfield....)

Where is the idea that 200k isn't a good fee coming from? Dundalk have lost their best players for nothing over the past 6 years, one of whom they paid to sign back! Maguire went for less. In the current climate getting 200k for a 25 year old with one year left is a decent bit of business. Burke went for more but he's a goal scorer and that was pre the pandemic drop in transfer fees which are down 23% based on a quick search.

Gutted to lose McEneff as he was more important to the team than Byrne in my opinion but you can't promise to help a player's career and then stand in their way when they want to step up. Part of Bradley's promise to players is to help them get to the next level and he's done that for Aaron, although I think the player could've held out for a bigger move. Hopefully he can go on and do as well as McGrath has done so far. It will help future fees increase.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Where is the idea that 200k isn't a good fee coming from? Dundalk have lost their best players for nothing over the past 6 years, one of whom they paid to sign back! Maguire went for less. In the current climate getting 200k for a 25 year old with one year left is a decent bit of business. Burke went for more but he's a goal scorer and that was pre the pandemic drop in transfer fees which are down 23% based on a quick search.

Gutted to lose McEneff as he was more important to the team than Byrne in my opinion but you can't promise to help a player's career and then stand in their way when they want to step up. Part of Bradley's promise to players is to help them get to the next level and he's done that for Aaron, although I think the player could've held out for a bigger move. Hopefully he can go on and do as well as McGrath has done so far. It will help future fees increase.

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I always thought this was an utterly silly remark. Dundalk didnt sell the players and saw out the contracts with them as they choose to bet on themseleves to win leagues. The fees Dundalk would have gotten for the likes of Towell, Horgan, Hoban and Boyle is all vastly under what they achieved through keeping them and winning titles and progressing in Europe. Its a far more brave decision than cashing out, and has obviously worked out well for the club.

If Rovers end up not winning the league because of selling McEneff, the 200k and Europa league money is less than what they would have achieved in the Chamipons League. Plus, if you know you are losing McEneff in December, you can plan ahead to replace him (while also being a more attractive place as league Champions.... Think Michael Duffy replacing Horgan).

Maybe the player would have became unsettled if he didnt leave, or didnt want to be at Rovers and it would affect his form and made sense to cash out on him... I dont know. But people saying the way Dundalk did their buisness, despite maininting an increadably high standard over 8 or so years, winning leagues and achieving so much in Europe, as a bad way to run a LOI club makes no sense to me.

I think its possible to rewrite History to suit any argument.
I don't remember any Dundalk player having a bid against them a year from the end of their contracts that was rejected by the club in favour of trying to win the league. Players leaving at the end of their contracts as a cheap signing on a free in England is a very different thing.
If a club is offered a decent fee and the player is going to get a big hike in wages it is very hard to retain the player and expect him to be unaffected by not being allowed go. From McEneffs perspective he probably sees this as his big chance.

I think Dundalk are just like Rovers bumping along but at the mercy of the noisy neighbours across the water and can only ever try to do the best on the day.
Jack Byrne went because he was offered a huge salery in Cyprus , Duffy stayed at DFC because he didnt get a decent offer.
Neither of those outcomes was because of the people looking after the transfers in DFC or Rovers its just life as we know it

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...overs-23443106

Bradley confirmed the transfer was unexpected to the club and that Hearts triggered the €180,000 release clause in McEneff's contract

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

i have a feeling the McEneff transfer was coming..

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And you kept that all to yourself? At least you should have let Bradley know.

Mc Eneff leaving may make the league slightly more competitive, but Rovers still have the strongest squad, by far.

Bradley knew it was a strong possibility as did the fans - Cardiff & Stoke were the two favourites over the off season - the Hearts bid may have been a surprise but not that McAneff could very well leave. It's all in the Mirror piece https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soc...overs-23443106

People forget that Aaron could have left for free at the end of the season and could have signed a pre-contract in July so €200k is a decent fee despite some being of opinion that it's not.

Again, per the Mirror quotes, that's our business model like it or not. For instance if Scales continues to impress he'll be gone too, same for any of them, sometimes you can't control the timing but you can prepare. McPhail and Bradley have have done a brilliant job with recruitment and player development and no reason to think that won't continue.

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

I always thought this was an utterly silly remark. Dundalk didnt sell the players and saw out the contracts with them as they choose to bet on themseleves to win leagues. The fees Dundalk would have gotten for the likes of Towell, Horgan, Hoban and Boyle is all vastly under what they achieved through keeping them and winning titles and progressing in Europe. Its a far more brave decision than cashing out, and has obviously worked out well for the club.

If Rovers end up not winning the league because of selling McEneff, the 200k and Europa league money is less than what they would have achieved in the Chamipons League. Plus, if you know you are losing McEneff in December, you can plan ahead to replace him (while also being a more attractive place as league Champions.... Think Michael Duffy replacing Horgan).

Maybe the player would have became unsettled if he didnt leave, or didnt want to be at Rovers and it would affect his form and made sense to cash out on him... I dont know. But people saying the way Dundalk did their buisness, despite maininting an increadably high standard over 8 or so years, winning leagues and achieving so much in Europe, as a bad way to run a LOI club makes no sense to me.

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I wasn't really out to attack Dundalk's business model but I'm not sure they were as in control of things as you make out? I don't remember, notr can I find, reports of bids being rejected for their big names. Also, if they were able to replace the players so we'll why not also get the fee? Either way, my point is that the perceived value associated with our leagues best players on the transfer market is drawn, in part, from historical context and in that context of small fees or no fees, 200k isn't terrible. If you are looking to buy from the loi and you know one of the best clubs allows their players to leave on frees then you're going to be less willing to part with money for any player. He was going at some point soon, I'd rather have 200k now to invest in his replacement (if it isn't already here).

Let's not forget rovers have basically signed 3 midfielders (McCann, Mandriou and Gannon allowing Finn to return to the middle) and promoted one from the B team. Bradley turned McEneff into the leagues best box to box midfielder from a bright but inconsistent spark so I'd guess he thinks there is the raw material there to fill the gap with someone else in the existing group or due to arrive. Time will tell.

But look, you're right to defend Dundalk's business a bit, it panned out well for them and you might be right that it's a bad decision for Rovers to sell McEneff now rather than increasing their chance of CL qualification. It certainly sounds harder to win the league now but we also haven't kicked a ball yet and my point is really just on the fee. 200k for a loi player isn't peanuts, it's up there with one of the largest fees received I think and sets the precedent that if you want to come for a rovers player right now, you'll have to open the cheque book. Unfortunately I think that's a game we have to play for the long term benefit of the league and clubs ability to command fees for their assets.

Contracts are the key to fees. Longer contracts equals bigger fees. While there's rarely more than 2 year contracts in the league significant transfer fees are very unlikely. €180k release fee in the contract of a player like McEneff makes a lot of sense. Rovers get a decent cash sum and don't lose him for free (or for a much lower fee as might have been the case, I'm sure there's been a few cases of players downing tools when a club has refused a fairly paltry offer to stop them heading to the UK). Probably the most sustainable model any league of Ireland club can hope for is to develop their own talent, and build in sell on clauses when they leave at a very young age. Or sign players in their early 20s on decent contracts, continue to develop them and include release clauses should they make an impact and attract interest from abroad.

I know the Rovers grand plan gets a bit of stick sometimes, but with the academy and they type of players they seem to be targeting it's starting to look like a sustainable and sensible model. If Byrne and McEneff go on to even more success, they'll be more attractive again to players of a similar age looking to increase their profile and they'll be looking for bigger fees and sell on clauses if they do well and move on. Of course the League has seen plenty of models that looked like they were going the right way and then fell apart (Cork might be the most recent example, always seem to be strong academies, some successful transfers to the UK, decent sell on clauses, but the club still managed to basically fall apart. Again.)

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

I wasn't really out to attack Dundalk's business model but I'm not sure they were as in control of things as you make out? I don't remember, notr can I find, reports of bids being rejected for their big names. Also, if they were able to replace the players so we'll why not also get the fee? Either way, my point is that the perceived value associated with our leagues best players on the transfer market is drawn, in part, from historical context and in that context of small fees or no fees, 200k isn't terrible. If you are looking to buy from the loi and you know one of the best clubs allows their players to leave on frees then you're going to be less willing to part with money for any player. He was going at some point soon, I'd rather have 200k now to invest in his replacement (if it isn't already here).

Let's not forget rovers have basically signed 3 midfielders (McCann, Mandriou and Gannon allowing Finn to return to the middle) and promoted one from the B team. Bradley turned McEneff into the leagues best box to box midfielder from a bright but inconsistent spark so I'd guess he thinks there is the raw material there to fill the gap with someone else in the existing group or due to arrive. Time will tell.

But look, you're right to defend Dundalk's business a bit, it panned out well for them and you might be right that it's a bad decision for Rovers to sell McEneff now rather than increasing their chance of CL qualification. It certainly sounds harder to win the league now but we also haven't kicked a ball yet and my point is really just on the fee. 200k for a loi player isn't peanuts, it's up there with one of the largest fees received I think and sets the precedent that if you want to come for a rovers player right now, you'll have to open the cheque book. Unfortunately I think that's a game we have to play for the long term benefit of the league and clubs ability to command fees for their assets.

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Ah I get it, I didnt mean to single anyone out .... Im just annoyed that people throw that Dundalk didnt make money off players moving to England with such narrow perspective. Dundalk showed that there is a different way (esp before the Americans,) of doing football buisness and I just wanted to make the point that McEneff is probably worth a lot more to Rovers than 170k (but it dosent matter if his release clause is met, Rovers have no choice).

Rovers still have O'Neill and Watts, two good players in centre mid, but it will hurt losing not only their two best players but two best players in the league.
Just putting it out there, but Rovers also have an age issue. Mannus (38), Finn (33), O'Brien (34) Greene (31) are all starters, McCann is 33, Gaffney and Gannon are 32 and 30 this year. It doesnt help to lose a 24 and 25 year old from that team.

Dundalk never really replaced O'Donnell or Finn, so its hard to find the right players consistently to fill in.

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

Contracts are the key to fees. Longer contracts equals bigger fees. While there's rarely more than 2 year contracts in the league significant transfer fees are very unlikely. €180k release fee in the contract of a player like McEneff makes a lot of sense. Rovers get a decent cash sum and don't lose him for free (or for a much lower fee as might have been the case, I'm sure there's been a few cases of players downing tools when a club has refused a fairly paltry offer to stop them heading to the UK). Probably the most sustainable model any league of Ireland club can hope for is to develop their own talent, and build in sell on clauses when they leave at a very young age. Or sign players in their early 20s on decent contracts, continue to develop them and include release clauses should they make an impact and attract interest from abroad.

I know the Rovers grand plan gets a bit of stick sometimes, but with the academy and they type of players they seem to be targeting it's starting to look like a sustainable and sensible model. If Byrne and McEneff go on to even more success, they'll be more attractive again to players of a similar age looking to increase their profile and they'll be looking for bigger fees and sell on clauses if they do well and move on. Of course the League has seen plenty of models that looked like they were going the right way and then fell apart (Cork might be the most recent example, always seem to be strong academies, some successful transfers to the UK, decent sell on clauses, but the club still managed to basically fall apart. Again.)

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Nothing wrong with model as described above, I would have thought that it is more focussed on selling on younger players developed within the club than losing established players that will be difficult to replace?
Release clauses give some security, but the problem with putting too high a price on the release clause is that it may deter players from signing up ,if they think they are good enough for cross channel they may opt for clubs with lower barriers to them transferring there.

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Ah I get it, I didnt mean to single anyone out .... Im just annoyed that people throw that Dundalk didnt make money off players moving to England with such narrow perspective. Dundalk showed that there is a different way (esp before the Americans,) of doing football buisness and I just wanted to make the point that McEneff is probably worth a lot more to Rovers than 170k (but it dosent matter if his release clause is met, Rovers have no choice).

Rovers still have O'Neill and Watts, two good players in centre mid, but it will hurt losing not only their two best players but two best players in the league.
Just putting it out there, but Rovers also have an age issue. Mannus (38), Finn (33), O'Brien (34) Greene (31) are all starters, McCann is 33, Gaffney and Gannon are 32 and 30 this year. It doesnt help to lose a 24 and 25 year old from that team.

Dundalk never really replaced O'Donnell or Finn, so its hard to find the right players consistently to fill in.

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I remember talking to a DFC club official around summer 2015, Dundalk going head to head with Cork for the league, and there was offers in Towell, at the time easily the best in the league. They weighed it up and considered winning the league and entry into CL would prob get around 750k. Worth nothing around 2014 or 2015 the CL monies rocketed to make the first round, compared to say what Pats got from the 2013 win, or possibly even Dundalk from 2014. Not sure who or what the offer was on Towell, possibly around the 200k mark.

Still think the only player DFC sold during this current era was Dylan Connolly, around 40k, but think they paid around 30k for him, could be wrong on last part. It is said Colovic left after DFC agreed terms with his new club, but I'd say that was a small fee, and they were happy to move him on as he was on massive wages.

Was trying to look up something that SK said about McEneff signing for Dundalk just before he(McEneff) signed for Derry but no comeback on it. he basically said it off the cuff = That if Dundalk could have got him we would win the league for 10 years in-a-row.Sk was mad keen to get McEneff to Oriel during his time here.

Anyway,presser from earlier today from FG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN1z...ature=youtu.be

Adam Foley signed back at Harps, added for the second half of last season and did really well when he came in.....

Colm Horgan signed for Sligo.

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Originally Posted by joey B

Colm Horgan signed for Sligo.

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Had forgotten the amount of clubs he has played for. Hard to believe Salthill Devon was his first loi club all these yrs ago. And of course Daryl played for SR too. Superb signing by LB.

Disappointed to lose Horgan (and Figueira) to Sligo.

Horgan solid performer and a genuine RB that we lack and there is no doubt we failed utterly to get anything close to the best from Figueira, Liam Buckley unlikely to make the same mistake with a talented and intelligent attacking player.

Joe Hodge signed for Derry on loan from Man City youth teams. Great signing, he looked a real prospect any time I’ve seen him play for Ireland u17/19s

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/6544632/...ity-loan-move/
He looks like he won a competition to be a mascot!

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Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract

Joe Hodge signed for Derry on loan from Man City youth teams. Great signing, he looked a real prospect any time I’ve seen him play for Ireland u17/19s

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Yeah heard game on raving about him. Never heard of the chap before. Where is JH from 2 year?