Eligibility Rules, Okay

You should have read my post before sending the tweet hit squad out against O'Donnell :)
It was obvious that the original article was the Indo's

Fair play to king what a spanner Michael o Neill is. I know slot of lads don't want Noel king involved in the underage setup but I would gladly contribute to a fund to keep him on building bridges for our northern brothers who have lived under British rule

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/sta...88587467399169

His response on Twitter above.

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He blames the mention of the Good Friday Agreement in the Belfast Telegraph article on it being a re-write of his original, but he mentions the Agreement in the original Indo piece too, so that explanation doesn't quite stack up. From the original piece in the Indo:

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Originally Posted by Dan McDonnell

The IFA have been frustrated by a knock-on consequence of the Good Friday Agreement which means any player born north of the border can opt to throw in his lot with the FAI. James McClean, Darron Gibson and Shane Duffy are high-profile examples.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

Interesting to learn his aul man is a Dub. Had assumed McEneff was a northern name (which it still probably is but via Dublin in this case).

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It's derived from Mac Conduibh and is a variation of other Anglicised surnames like McAnuff, McEniff (as you can probably guess) and even McEndoo. It's a Connacht surname although I think variants would be more common in the north (especially around Leitrim and Sligo) rather than in the south of the country.

Bonus trivia: The Donegal GAA manager who won the All-Ireland in 1992 was a Brian McEniff.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

He blames the mention of the Good Friday Agreement in the Belfast Telegraph article on it being a re-write of his original, but he mentions the Agreement in the original Indo piece too, so that explanation doesn't quite stack up. From the original piece in the Indo:

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Send him a tweet saying that it was a knock on consequences of free state irredentism? :D

For the most part players switching from one side to another is a knock on consequence of the GFA,
but not as O'Donnell may think. He may think the GFA gave the legitimacy to the FIFA dual eligibility, one that did not exist before and of course that's an erroneous belief.
Nevertheless, the cease fire followed by the GFA and the referendum changed much in the way people thought about their national identity and this had a knock on effect on northern nationalist footballers, a growing awareness came about that yes players who wanted this to happen could make it happen and the timeline of player declarations supports that contention.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Send him a tweet saying that it was a knock on consequences of free state irredentism? :D

For the most part players switching from one side to another is a knock on consequence of the GFA,
but not as O'Donnell may think. He may think the GFA gave the legitimacy to the FIFA dual eligibility, one that did not exist before and of course that's an erroneous belief.
Nevertheless, the cease fire followed by the GFA and the referendum changed much in the way people thought about their national identity and this had a knock on effect on northern nationalist footballers, a growing awareness came about that yes players who wanted this to happen could make it happen and the timeline of player declarations supports that contention.

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It's bound to have been a psychological factor, certainly, although I still think the primary motivator behind the increased number of northern declarations for the FAI in latter times was FIFA's introduction of an allowance to switch association once since 2004. In effect, players who had represented the IFA at youth level were thereafter no longer cap-tied for life. The overwhelming majority of northern declarations for the FAI have been post-2004.

And I've been on hiatus from tweeting since October; I plan on keeping it that way for another while yet. :)

Although I do see Stutts has been in touch with McDonnell for correctional purposes: https://twitter.com/Stuttgart1988/st...92308536479745

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

It's bound to have been a psychological factor, certainly, although I still think the primary motivator behind the increased number of northern declarations for the FAI in latter times was FIFA's introduction of an allowance to switch association once since 2004. In effect, players who had represented the IFA at youth level were thereafter no longer cap-tied for life. The overwhelming majority of northern declarations for the FAI have been post-2004.

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I take your point.
Even if it was Gibson and Wilson who switched to the FAI before the 2004 rule change, who were the main pioneers and led the way for others in regards for choice, the 2004 rule change meant many more young ni born players were not bound to the IFA by being capped at underage competitive level.

Another effect of the GFA was that it delivered the political argument of irredentism to the dustbin and it could not be used with any legitimacy in any negotiations with FIFA. Although the IFA had recognised and accepted pre-GFA, the possibility and the reality that ni born players could declare for the FAI, I'd be pretty confident come 2007 they would have been loudly bleating about the injustice that one bigger country could dish out citizenship willy nilly to another smaller territory and grab their best footballers.
And in subsequent years the fact of the GFA referendum approval, took a good bit of steam out argument re NI born's right to automatic dual citizenship and exercise their right to avail of FIFA rules. All we are left with these days is Michael O'Neill doing a Roy Keane bad hangover impression.

Belfast's Rory Hale expresses his delight at receiving his clearance and call-up to the under-21s: https://twitter.com/Roryh96/status/841990612429733889

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Originally Posted by Rory Hale

After a long frustrating 18 months I'm finally cleared and im over the moon to receive my first call up for my country.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

It's derived from Mac Conduibh and is a variation of other Anglicised surnames like McAnuff, McEniff (as you can probably guess) and even McEndoo. It's a Connacht surname although I think variants would be more common in the north (especially around Leitrim and Sligo) rather than in the south of the country.

Bonus trivia: The Donegal GAA manager who won the All-Ireland in 1992 was a Brian McEniff.

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You've caught me. My inference was completely based on Brian McEniff.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I take your point.
Even if it was Gibson and Wilson who switched to the FAI before the 2004 rule change, who were the main pioneers and led the way for others in regards for choice, the 2004 rule change meant many more young ni born players were not bound to the IFA by being capped at underage competitive level.

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I thought Wilson was post-2004, no? And Gibson was 2003. The liberalising regulation officially entered the rule-book from the 1st of January of 2004, but switches have happened since 2003.

See:

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Here are some general figures on switches that Yann has presented/published as part of a talk ("Blurred nationalities: who gets to play for whom at the 2014 FIFA World Cup?" A critical analysis of the current FIFA Regulations on national team representation): http://www.academia.edu/7264909/_Blu...representation

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...pslzbbkolw.png

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The regulation concerned was ratified in Doha on the 19th of October of 2003, but somebody at FIFA must have been treating it as effective from then (considering switch requests were being granted) even if a FIFA circular (n° 877) dated the 21st of November, 2003 stated that the rule-change would only come into force on the 1st of January, 2004.

See:

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

This is Circular n° 877 dated the 21st of November, 2003, which outlines all the documents required to switch association: http://resources.fifa.com/mm/documen..._877_en_89.pdf

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...psrpw5lfyu.png
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...ps5rdfberi.png

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I presume they regarded the period after ratification as transitional or something.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Another effect of the GFA was that it delivered the political argument of irredentism to the dustbin and it could not be used with any legitimacy in any negotiations with FIFA. Although the IFA had recognised and accepted pre-GFA, the possibility and the reality that ni born players could declare for the FAI, I'd be pretty confident come 2007 they would have been loudly bleating about the injustice that one bigger country could dish out citizenship willy nilly to another smaller territory and grab their best footballers.

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Maybe it helped in such a way - in the sense that all was deemed completely above board, as far as international relations were concerned - although FIFA have always resisted clamping down on the extension of Turkish citizenship to Cypriots in the northern half of Cyprus, despite the fact the broader international community have never recognised the self-declared Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. As far as the international community are concerned, the northern half of Cyprus is under Turkish occupation and is legitimately a part of the Republic of Cyprus. Nevertheless, Muzzy Izzet and Colin Kazim-Richards qualified to play for Turkey in official FIFA competition via their (Turkish) Cypriot ancestry.

Brendan Crossan of the Irish News on: Brian Kerr's purported objection to the FAI's selection of northern-born players; the IFA's heads-in-the-sand approach; and Rory Hale's reasons for declaring for the FAI: http://www.irishnews.com/sport/opini...ble-on-966797/

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Originally Posted by Brendan Crossan

I met Brian Kerr at Donegal Celtic Football Club in August 2011. His Faroe Islands team were using the Suffolk Road facilities as preparation for their Euro 2012 Qualifier with Northern Ireland at Windsor Park.

Around that time, James McClean had declared for the Republic of Ireland after representing the north at underage level.

It was yet another eligibility row in a long list of familiar IFA-FAI spats.

Kerr, a former Republic of Ireland manager, actually sided with the northern association.

He said: "I know some of the northern players have an identity with the Republic because of the communities they're living in. I think over time that can change.

"But I don't think the Republic should be taking advantage of the Belfast Agreement to the extent they're using it in football as a way of recruiting players.

"I've always been someone who's fought for the small man and tried to see things in a fair-minded way," said the Drimnagh native.

"Even when I was manager of the Republic's teams, we weren't busy in that way in terms of selecting players from outside.

"We did, in fact, tell some players that they would be better off not playing for us because they were unlikely to get to the top level. So I think that was only fair.”

Kerr duly incurred the wrath of northern nationalism for sticking up for the IFA.

Every now and then a northern player declares for the south; somebody complains and the media dusts off old headlines.

Last week, it was Northern Ireland senior international manager Michael O’Neill who let rip.

He hit a raw nerve by calling the FAI “morally poor” after another couple of Derry natives – Jordan McAneff and Josh Daniels - opted to play for the Republic of Ireland.

Jordan’s elder brother Aaron did likewise last year with still two U21 European qualification games still to play.

You can understand O’Neill’s frustration at losing talented young players to the south after IFA coaches have invested in them.

But stamping your feet in frustration hasn’t got the IFA anywhere.

To use a football analogy, it’s like playing long ball tactics and being frustrated by the outcome.

Put simply, the IFA need better tactics.

They should be asking themselves why so many young Catholic players don’t want to play for the north.

Indeed, the IFA would be better served if they carried out in-depth surveys/interviews with all the so-called ‘defectors’ to find out where they, as an association, are going wrong.

Moreover, blaming the FAI for 'poaching' northern-born players is not a fair analysis of the situation.

Take Rory Hale as a case-study. Rory is close to making a first team breakthrough at Aston Villa and has represented Northern Ireland at underage level from U16.

In September 2015 he rejected any further call-ups to the north’s U21 squad because he wanted to play for the Republic.

On Wednesday, he earned his first call-up to the Republic’s U21s for their upcoming Euro qualifier against Kosovo.

Rory wasn’t ‘poached’ by the FAI. He contacted the FAI about switching his allegiance.

Speaking to the Irish News this week, Rory said: “I made this decision myself. I grew up in north Belfast, I’m Irish, my family is Irish and I want to play for Ireland.”

With parental guidance, Rory represented the north for several years until, he said: “I was old enough to make my own decision - and I made it.”

He made roughly 15 competitive appearances for the north but started only “four or five games”.

He felt he deserved more game-time, but Rory's heart always lay with the south.

In his broadside last weekend, O’Neill scoffed at players who insisted it was always their “dream” to play for the Republic.

Rory said: “I’ve always been a Republic fan. My father took me to all the games when I was a kid. Friendly matches as well, we went to watch all the games.

“I still watch them now. I get my Ireland top on and watch them. I was on holiday during the Euros and I had my top on to watch their games.”

Rory’s younger brother Ronan Hale has been cutting a dash at Birmingham City for the last couple of seasons.

You should see this kid play. Google him and watch this incredible goal-scoring talent.

Despite hitting over 40 goals for Birmingham City’s youth team in his first season, he was never called up for the north to play in a competitive game.

It begs questions of the IFA's scouting network that a prolific goalscoring talent like Ronan Hale wasn't utilised.

Being put on stand-by at U19 level was the closest the striker got to featuring in a competitive game for Northern Ireland.

Now he's flourishing for the Republic.

“Ronan was over in Birmingham and scoring goals and Irish League players were getting called up ahead of him. That baffles me,” said Rory.

Rory had to wait for over a year before receiving international clearance from the IFA to play for the south.

Rather than delaying his move to the Republic, it would have been perhaps more prudent of the IFA to listen to the reasons why Rory and Ronan Hale – two hugely talented young footballers from Belfast - are not playing for the north.

The IFA must ask itself is it doing enough to encourage young catholic/nationalist players to remain with the north because throwing insults southwards is a waste of time.

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Just on Kerr, we know he advised Michael McGovern to stick with the IFA, but he was also happy to select Ger Crossley, so there's certainly an element of hypocrisy to his latter-day complaints.

As for Hale, he confirms that he was the one who initiated contact with the FAI.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-35522480.html

As a small country Northern Ireland obviously have a grievance about developing players only to see them subsequently declare for another country.

And it's one thing if you feel Irish and always wanted to play for Ireland but several lads have played all through the underage groups for NI before declaring for Ireland as soon as we batted our eyelids at them.

A few lads (Eunan O'Kane) have said their nationalist background had nothing to do with their decision to switch, but sporting reasons did.

And it doesn't help relations when you have lads like James McClean saying he used Northern Ireland as a "stepping stone" towards playing for Ireland, something he prefaced by saying "it's probably the wrong thing to say".

Now I know it's no picnic for a person from a nationalist background to play for Northern Ireland, but lads like Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt have became fan favorites for them, and several lads who've declared for us have had no problem accumulating caps for them before switching to us after seeing their stock rise - which some may decry as opportunistic.

I suppose you have to see it from their POV. Some Ireland fans complain about England trying to pinch Grealish or Crowley from us and these are lads born and bred in England, so it would be a bit hypocritical to fob off NI fans concerns about this.

It is pretty ironic that Michael O'Neill comes out with stuff like this and then tries to poach Sean Scannell and Alex Bruce from us; though they're probably left with no recourse but to look for players in Great Britain when talented players keep leaving their grasp to play with their southern counterparts.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

though they're probably left with no recourse but to look for players in Great Britain when talented players keep leaving their grasp to play with their southern counterparts.

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Why this apologist nonsense toward them ? If they want to apply a principle to it, let them. But according to you they can also circumnavigate it in certain circumstances when it suits them.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Why this apologist nonsense toward them ? If they want to apply a principle to it, let them. But according to you they can also circumnavigate it in certain circumstances when it suits them.

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We're a small country with a population of <5m. Northern Ireland is a tiny country with a population of <2m.

It would be a hammer blow to us if considerable segments of our population started declaring for another country.

Imagine how much of a blow it is to them and their, already small, talent pool.

I'm simply trying to provide a bit of scope.

F*ck them. These people are Irish.

Particularly f*uk them while they display such a one eyed attitude toward it. They cant have it both ways.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

We're a small country with a population of <5m. Northern Ireland is a tiny country with a population of <2m.

It would be a hammer blow to us if considerable segments of our population started declaring for another country.

Imagine how much of a blow it is to them and their, already small, talent pool.

I'm simply trying to provide a bit of scope.

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Are you really trying to draw Danny on you? You completely miss the point with "declaring for another country." Read Hale's comments.

You shouldn't be quoting the comments if you're worried about that.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

You completely miss the point with "declaring for another country." Read Hale's comments.

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Another country?

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These people are Irish.

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Nobody forced them to play for Northern Ireland at underage level.

There have been several players who switched back to NI after it didn't work out for us, but perhaps that narrative doesn't fit?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Nobody forced them to play for Northern Ireland at underage level.

There have been several players who switched back to NI after it didn't work out for us, but perhaps that narrative doesn't fit?

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They were perfectly entitled to play for Northern Ireland at underage level. They exercised their right to do so, experience it, learn from it, benefit from it and ultimately when and if they decide they'd rather play for the team down the road -that's their right too.

Also, I have great time for Brian Kerr but he's somewhat forked tongued on this issue and possibly selective in his memory too -he described the FAI (of whom I'm scarcely a fan) as 'predatory' in their pursuit of McClean when it transpires McClean initiated contact with the FAI via Niall Quinn and Sunderland. Yet, and perhaps one of the Northern Ireland lads on here can add to, confirm or rebuff this, - there were more than one or two on OWC a few years back asserting that Kerr -acting on what information or initiative I don't know, telephoned the as yet uncapped Chris Baird to invite him to join up with our squad only for Baird to say 'No thanks, I'm happy where I am'.

I'm not accusing Kerr of anything other than hypocracy there. As the Ireland manager his primary duty was to maximise the player pool available to the FAI. He broke no rule I know of by calling Baird -if indeed he did contact him.

I'm just saying I completely understand why Northern Ireland fans would be annoyed about the situation.

I'm delighted that players the caliber of Duffy and McClean declared for us but if the shoe was on the other foot..

You have to see both sides of the story.

I can't imagine how annoyed I would be if I was a NI fan when McClean made his "stepping stone" comment.

The closest thing you could compare it to is Grealish using ROI as a stepping stone, which he obviously did.

But at least Grealish was English born and bred, and had the common sense and PR savvy not to make such questionable comments in a public arena.