Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

The "big" clubs in Ireland seem to hate the most because they can bring a dozen fans to an away game and the stadium announcer doesn't name the fans at home games. Small clubs are not hated because they are not threatening and can be used to pick up players on the cheap. Woe betide any club that pops their head above the parapet and try to improve themselves - whether by gambling (as is the norm) or trying to do something different. The word of caution in all this is enjoy your time on the tigers back.

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I dont understand your first sentence .

I take it you can enlighten us on the rest so?

I think it's some kind of ancient Chinese proverb.

I think the crucial difference between SF and the Bohs meltdown, and as I remember Derry City's similar meltdown before they reformed, is the fact that SF called it a day and didn't drag it along in the vain hope of surviving even if it meant defaulting on players wages. There is much less for McGuinness to speak out about when a club folds but in doing so had paid its players up to the point it shut down.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

The word of caution in all this is enjoy your time on the tigers back.

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You should have warned Fingal County Council and Gannon. The league would have been in a stronger position if Fingannon CC had reached out to established north Dublin clubs instead of indulging their Sporting Folly. In any case, you're preaching to the choir, most fans aren't as stupid as some of your more condescending posts imply and understand only too well the precarious financial position of their clubs.

eelmonster, if you find any posts condescending it's because you choose to, none would be or set out to be. There are plenty of people who enjoy seeing other clubs crash and burn, which typifies football in Ireland and why the LOI is in the state it's in. What is most disgusting is the attitude of, well, the FAI let it all happen. Wrong, clubs and those following or supporting them are to blame, and this culture will continue. Your own snide aside about Fingannon CC is just an extension of what many people thought from the beginning, so what could have been done? Lots, however we're all too busy looking for reasons to knock that to do something about it. And it's good that you mention the precarious positions of clubs, it's going to be the one constant we can be proud of in Ireland, though apart from the mention of the 65% cap, and dependence on single sources of revenue, everyone avoids it. Though you do have a very valid point in the local councils reaching out to clubs in their region/jurisdiction. This would be a major start, or finish, but no matter what it would have an impact.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

eelmonster, if you find any posts condescending it's because you choose to, none would be or set out to be. There are plenty of people who enjoy seeing other clubs crash and burn, which typifies football in Ireland and why the LOI is in the state it's in. What is most disgusting is the attitude of, well, the FAI let it all happen. Wrong, clubs and those following or supporting them are to blame, and this culture will continue. Your own snide aside about Fingannon CC is just an extension of what many people thought from the beginning, so what could have been done? Lots, however we're all too busy looking for reasons to knock that to do something about it. And it's good that you mention the precarious positions of clubs, it's going to be the one constant we can be proud of in Ireland, though apart from the mention of the 65% cap, and dependence on single sources of revenue, everyone avoids it. Though you do have a very valid point in the local councils reaching out to clubs in their region/jurisdiction. This would be a major start, or finish, but no matter what it would have an impact.

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Im one of does who enoy watching overspending clubs crash and burn but am at a loss to understand why i am responsable for the state of the leage

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

those following or supporting them are to blame

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This is utter nonsense, but please continue: how exactly are League of Ireland supporters responsible for the demise of Fingal?

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Originally Posted by Harpsbear

I think the crucial difference between SF and the Bohs meltdown, and as I remember Derry City's similar meltdown before they reformed, is the fact that SF called it a day and didn't drag it along in the vain hope of surviving even if it meant defaulting on players wages. There is much less for McGuinness to speak out about when a club folds but in doing so had paid its players up to the point it shut down.

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the biggest issue for McGuinness and the Bohs players was the signed contract for the coming season and the settlement of same. That McGuinness has been silent on a worse situation created by Sporting Fingal speaks volumes of the schyster in my honest biased and paranoid opinion.

Fingal are gone. There's absolutely nothing McGuinness can do about it. Complaining about it serves no purpose.

Bohs are not gone. They expect to compete next season, in the premier league. Complaining about them heightens media attention on them and puts pressure on them in relation to doing a deal that is good for his members.

There's a fairly big difference

But not even a comment from McGuinness about how disgraceful Fingal's behaviour was?

Wow.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

But not even a comment from McGuinness about how disgraceful Fingal's behaviour was?

Wow.

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Again, what would the purpose of it be? I'm sure if he's asked or interviewed that he'd say it was a disgrace but there's not exactly a point to a press release on it. It wouldn't benefit his members in any way.

Now if Fingal had done this and then tried to apply for a licence, for any division, I think the reaction would have been different.

i suppose it depends on what your perspective is. I think that it is a case of two individual clubs who were not able to meet their contractual obligations for the coming season. And i see double standards in the way the players representative chose to remark or deal with the two situations. There may be no point complaining about it but, from his perspective as a representative of all players registered to play in the 2 leagues, there would be a lot to be said for highlighting yet another case of ill treatment of the players by a club. Its what any Union i have ever dealt with is very quick to do irrespective of the merits or otherwise of each instance of "ill treatment".

Either way, im not too bothered really. And certainly not surprised by it.

I'm sure it's no consolation Stu but McGuinness and the PFAI were absolute c***s to us too when we were in trouble in 2005 only to treat other clubs more favourably in the years after that.

McGuinness wont be welcome in Dalymount for a long time after his Playstation comment.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

You should have warned Fingal County Council and Gannon. The league would have been in a stronger position if Fingannon CC had reached out to established north FDublin clubs instead of indulging their Sporting Folly. In any case, you're preaching to the choir, most fans aren't as stupid as some of your more condescending posts imply and understand only too well the precarious financial position of their clubs.

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Fingal isnt just North Dublin and i cant see how the league would have been stronger.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

the biggest issue for McGuinness and the Bohs players was the signed contract for the coming season and the settlement of same. That McGuinness has been silent on a worse situation created by Sporting Fingal speaks volumes of the schyster in my honest biased and paranoid opinion.

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He hasnt been silent, hes talked about it in the papers.

fair enough if he has but i havent read anything from him at all.

And on the radio.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

i suppose it depends on what your perspective is. I think that it is a case of two individual clubs who were not able to meet their contractual obligations for the coming season. And i see double standards in the way the players representative chose to remark or deal with the two situations. There may be no point complaining about it but, from his perspective as a representative of all players registered to play in the 2 leagues, there would be a lot to be said for highlighting yet another case of ill treatment of the players by a club. Its what any Union i have ever dealt with is very quick to do irrespective of the merits or otherwise of each instance of "ill treatment".

Either way, im not too bothered really. And certainly not surprised by it.

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It doesnt sound like it.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

fair enough if he has but i havent read anything from him at all.

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So in your book, if you havent read or heard about it then it didnt happen?

nope. Didnt say that at all.

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Originally Posted by The Lep

It doesnt sound like it.

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wow. Busted. Im actually really really bothered about it. You got me.

This one is just for you The Lep.

Ive have nothing to do with either of them teams so its a pointless post stu. :)

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Originally Posted by SkStu

the biggest issue for McGuinness and the Bohs players was the signed contract for the coming season and the settlement of same. That McGuinness has been silent on a worse situation created by Sporting Fingal speaks volumes of the schyster in my honest biased and paranoid opinion.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

But not even a comment from McGuinness about how disgraceful Fingal's behaviour was?

Wow.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

nope. Didnt say that at all.

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Sounds like it to me.

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Originally Posted by The Lep

Sounds like it to me.

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while youre quoting, could you quote the post where i said...

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Originally Posted by The Lep

if you havent read or heard about it then it didnt happen?

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if i havent read or heard about it then i simply havent read or heard about it.

Thats fair enough but then you cant post that Mcguiness hasnt said a word about it then can you.

Of course i can. You can have an opinion based on what you know. As you acquire more facts your opinion can change.

What has McGuinness said anyway? Do you have any direct quotes? As it stands all i have is your post saying that he was in the paper and Dunny saying he was on the radio. I still have no idea what he is supposed to have said.

Pick a paper Stu and google it . An opinon based on what you know is fine but not when you are having a pop at an individual when you dont know if what your comments are true or not.

Settle down kids. No more squabbling !!

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Originally Posted by The Lep

An opinon based on what you know is fine.

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thanks.

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Originally Posted by The Lep

Pick a paper Stu and google it .

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ill take your word for it. Whatever it was that he said wasnt as vigorous as his condemnation of Bohs, thats for sure. Or else id have noticed.

Its Bohs you are talking about ;)

Well, I was so depressed I took to the bed when I heard the news and only now am I crawling out.
Some might say that that Fingal had no support, that they were makey uppy, that they were a rich man's plaything. Others may choose to remember SFFC in this way but I know better.
The reality was we played the best football in the league. The reality was we made real efforts to work in the community with schools and local clubs. The reality was that we had as many fans as you could hope to have in 3 short years and those fans we had were as loud and enthusiastic as anyone else's.
The recession and financial mismanagement killed us and I am speechless. I think I know what Bill Shankly meant about football not being a matter of life and death.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

This is utter nonsense, but please continue: how exactly are League of Ireland supporters responsible for the demise of Fingal?

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Please re-read my post and don't please quote out of context. The simple point is this: clubs overstretch, mess up and we as supporters are too often to blame - happy to keep cheering when winning and giving the finger to other clubs and supporters. The FAI allows this tribal nonsense to go on as it's all part of a "healthy rivalry" and to lift the league, when it all goes belly up these same people will blame the FAI and "others" instead of looking at what they themselves cold have done. I saw it over the years with Dundalk and there was always a bogeyman. SF have their bogeymen while the FAI, PFAI and other will always take a smack, though supporters will suffer on in martyrdom. So I hope this explains it a little easier for you, it's certainly quite a distance from the context from which you extrapolated.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

The simple point is this: clubs overstretch, mess up and we as supporters are too often to blame - happy to keep cheering when winning and giving the finger to other clubs and supporters.

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I don't see any link between the clubs overstretching and the supporters cheering. I'm a supporter of Limerick FC, but that's all. I have absolutely no say whatsoever in anything the club does. I can only hope that the people in charge know what they're doing.

You seem to want to portray Fingal's demise as symptomatic of a league-wide problem (and to the extent that their problems stemmed from overspending, it is a problem in the league) but the fact remains that Fingal's implosion is almost totally down to Fingal themselves, not the fans of their or any other club.

Osarusan, every club's demise or success is individual, earlier I ensured that this is not a doubt. Each club has it's own model, many are similar but all can be rendered unsustainable with a few small twists in the tail. However supporters do have the power to rein in their club, rein in the league and rein in the FAI, however it's much easier to just complain. The point about the clubs overstretching and supporters cheering is that if a club is winning, supporters will be less concerned about apocalyptic consequences and in the main defend what's going on. It's probably a point to make a difference between fans and supporters, though this gets blurred even with the best of intentions. Every supporter has a say in their club, though I am on board with you when you say you can only hope that those in charge know what they're doing. It's the same all the way up to the FAI.

On a kind of parallel point, I heard somebody on a tv show (election related) saying that there was this belief that somebody somewhere was going to come up with a solution to the financial ills we face now. This kind of communal transfer of responsibility to "someone else", whether it's a facet of human nature or not I don't know, but it could well be.

Spudulika, that would be true if "the fans" were a united body who all pulled in the one direction, but we're not. You can blame LOI fans as a group, but blaming any individual ones not in a position of power just seems wrong. So long as you have so many different agents all acting in supposed self-interest, you're always going to have some of them overreaching and gambling that the money they are spending will lead to success, and the arms race starts all over again. The fans have very little power to do anything about this, however, the FAI, as organising authority, do. That's why everybody looks to them for a solution, not as a psychological defence mechanism, but because they're the ones with the wherewithall to make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

However supporters do have the power to rein in their club, rein in the league and rein in the FAI

On a kind of parallel point, I heard somebody on a tv show (election related) saying that there was this belief that somebody somewhere was going to come up with a solution to the financial ills we face now.

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Your fist point is complete drivel, but let's entertain it for the moment. How do you think supporters can "rein in" the FAI? Let's have some concrete examples.

On your second point, this is another wcm special - can't remember the programme name? How convenient. I suspect you're making that up.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

Spudulika, that would be true if "the fans" were a united body who all pulled in the one direction,.

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I don't actually agree with this, by the way. I don't think you could argue Supporters Direct or Stand Up Sit Down have reined in the Premier League. All the FAI have to do is ignore any demands, keep doing what they're doing and there's actually not much you can do about it.

Not weecountyman again??

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't actually agree with this, by the way. I don't think you could argue Supporters Direct or Stand Up Sit Down have reined in the Premier League. All the FAI have to do is ignore any demands, keep doing what they're doing and there's actually not much you can do about it.

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The LOI is far more dependent on matchday revenue than the big Premier League clubs though, so I think proportionally, matchgoing fans would have more power over here than in the UK. It's all down to opinion though.