Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

The points you've raised there goes back to something I pointed out before, if a soccer player does it, it's crass and indulgent, if a rugby player does the same thing, he's earned the right to do it. Cian Healy drives a hummer, and had been clamped in Dublin city centre with it, nobody blinks an eyelid, Stephen Ireland auctioned that car for a breast cancer charity, but nobody remembers that! The New Zealand squad are as tattooed as any premier league team, but it's never mentioned. Let's not get started on Ian Madigan's haircut either!

Think there's something to the supping pints thing. Rugby and GAA players can generally afford to have a couple of pints during the week as it doesn't really inhibit performance. Football players don't really have the same luxury, so by nature they tend to be more closed off whether they live here or in the UK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

The best thing to happen Irish rugby in the long-term is a defeat against Argentina in the QF. Because it shows that we aren't as good as we think we are and need to up our game and consistently the IRFU have shown that they can do that.

I love my country winning at anything.

---

Rubbish. They will rattle off 4 or 5 wins in February and March and it'll be smooth sailing again. The Heineken will be flowing again.

I couldn't have been happier when the Argies won. I begrudge any success the rugby team has. Yes, I am bitter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The points you've raised there goes back to something I pointed out before, if a soccer player does it, it's crass and indulgent, if a rugby player does the same thing, he's earned the right to do it. Cian Healy drives a hummer, and had been clamped in Dublin city centre with it, nobody blinks an eyelid, Stephen Ireland auctioned that car for a breast cancer charity, but nobody remembers that! The New Zealand squad are as tattooed as any premier league team, but it's never mentioned. Let's not get started on Ian Madigan's haircut either!

---

And yet you failed to even mention Simon Zebo.

It's a national scandal if a soccer player did what he did. He got such an easy ride (pardon the expression) off the privately educated media.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

And yet you failed to even mention Simon Zebo.

It's a national scandal if a soccer player did what he did. He got such an easy ride (pardon the expression) off the privately educated media.

---

And yet you failed to even mention Conor Murray.

It's a national scandal if a soccer player did what he did. He got such an easy ride (pardon the expression) off the publicly educated MeathDrog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by elroy

Research indicates that participation comes from improved facilities, volunteers etc. Something the GAA is a country mile ahead in this country.

---

is that actually the case anymore though? an awful lot of schoolboy teams have improved their facilities greatly over the last 10 years. Floodlit all-weather pitches and very good clubhouse facilities are popping up all over the place. The two clubs nearest me, joeys and cabinteely, have playing facilities to match, or indeed better, any GAA or rugby club in the same area.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

but it's never mentioned. Let's not get started on Ian Madigan's haircut either!

---

You leave Viscount Wonderhair alone!

Edit - can't believe this is a 71 page thread - sad stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

Rubbish. They will rattle off 4 or 5 wins in February and March and it'll be smooth sailing again. The Heineken will be flowing again.

I couldn't have been happier when the Argies won. I begrudge any success the rugby team has. Yes, I am bitter.

---

Why? That's just madness. I can't stand that thick-headedness. Kinda shows people up to be really insecure and petty.

I mean as a Meathman and a Drogs fan I suppose it should come with the territory.

The rugby team are going to be criticised and analysed like never before. It's already happening.
We will not rattle off 4 or 5 wins this spring. No chance.

I'm just flabbergasted at someone who would wish their own national team to lose. By all means, have no interest but to actually be delighted at the defeat is a bit mental.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Why? That's just madness. I can't stand that thick-headedness. Kinda shows people up to be really insecure and petty.

I mean as a Meathman and a Drogs fan I suppose it should come with the territory.

The rugby team are going to be criticised and analysed like never before. It's already happening.
We will not rattle off 4 or 5 wins this spring. No chance.

I'm just flabbergasted at someone who would wish their own national team to lose. By all means, have no interest but to actually be delighted at the defeat is a bit mental.

---

I clearly struck a nerve due to the personal digs but I won't respond in a similar way.

I will admit that in previous years I was apathetic towards the rugby team but this year it was all too much.

The hype before the WC was too much. The amount of coverage the WC got was totally disproportionate to the amount of national interest. I hated the half baked analysts that popped up everywhere during the WC, using terms like "offload" and "choke tackle" to masquerade the fact they're talking pure ****e. The media then use phrases like "gone to war" and "soldiers". And we laugh when England play at a World Cup in soccer?

It's not a likeable team, especially now that Paul O'Connell is gone. I have a hard time cheering on 15 juiced lads in a sport that's fundamentally flawed anyway.

But the most sickening thing of all is the double standards. The hero status the rugby players are given is unbelievable, and it's harder to take considering they bottled it (again) and still struggle to win a knockout game in a 'World Cup' where they are one of 10 professional teams. There has to be at least a level playing field in terms of interest and coverage.

All 15 are juiced?! Tad exaggeration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Why? That's just madness. I can't stand that thick-headedness. Kinda shows people up to be really insecure and petty.

I mean as a Meathman and a Drogs fan I suppose it should come with the territory.

The rugby team are going to be criticised and analysed like never before. It's already happening.
We will not rattle off 4 or 5 wins this spring. No chance.

I'm just flabbergasted at someone who would wish their own national team to lose. By all means, have no interest but to actually be delighted at the defeat is a bit mental.

---

Jeez while I agree with your sentiment Bonni, a bit harsh on Meath.I suppose though when I think.of Dublin the idea of a localised atomic bomb comes to.mind!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Edit - can't believe this is a 71 page thread - sad stuff.

---

Not really though. Since the thread was started (by a WUM) in 2009 the evidence of media double standards and ridiculously OTT coverage has been worth at least 71 pages. It's nearly 7 years old and that's 10 pages a year.

I knew you'd defend your favourite thread :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Not really though. Since the thread was started (by a WUM) in 2009 the evidence of media double standards and ridiculously OTT coverage has been worth at least 71 pages. It's nearly 7 years old and that's 10 pages a year.

---

A 71 page thread on supposed double standards in the middle of a football forum is a bit mental to me, as someone who loves both sports. You can dress it up any way you like.

To be fair people are entitled to discuss it and it does stimulate a lot of debate but a lot of it is irrational hatred towards rugby people - classic reference by Meathdrog above.

What is this top? Is it just a random design with a random crest? It was never the actual top right?

http://www.dasportsgear.com/mobile/p...IVQI9Q&click=2

Pretty sure we've never worn that alright, it looks like something Sheamus might walk out wearing before taking on the undertaker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

A 71 page thread on supposed double standards in the middle of a football forum is a bit mental to me, as someone who loves both sports. You can dress it up any way you like.

To be fair people are entitled to discuss it and it does stimulate a lot of debate but a lot of it is irrational hatred towards rugby people - classic reference by Meathdrog above.

---

im not sure this thread would have lasted so long if there weren't actual double standards, and perhaps if rugby people don't needlessly throw digs football's way (and other sports too, lest we forget - I learnt recently that Rugby League fans are known as "peasants" in some quarters). As it happens I love both sports too and I used to be doing cartwheels when we won big rugby games, and was gutted when France pipped us to the 6N in 2007(?) but some of the guff I have read and heard in the meantime has diminished my enthusiasm.

I have to admit to a certain schadenfreude when Munster lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

I clearly struck a nerve due to the personal digs but I won't respond in a similar way.

---

Honestly? Whilst I would normally abide by the internet rule of "attack the post not the poster" my natural antipathy towards Meath and Drawda was just too big to contain.

That I thought the post was absolute gash also is testament why I think you're being a bit of a spoofer in this regard.

Quote:

---

I will admit that in previous years I was apathetic towards the rugby team but this year it was all too much.

---

Why watch it? Why care if it was too much too bear? I mean we were back-to-back European/Six Nations champions, why shouldn't we be hyped up? Why shouldn't we go into the tournament with an notion that we could win it.

Quote:

---

The hype before the WC was too much.

---

See above.

Quote:

---

The amount of coverage the WC got was totally disproportionate to the amount of national interest.

---

Why does that matter to you at all? It's a World Cup, taking place in a near-neighour. That we went into as 6N champions. Of course there was going to be hype.

Quote:

---

I hated the half baked analysts that popped up everywhere during the WC, using terms like "offload" and "choke tackle" to masquerade the fact they're talking pure ****e

---

.

Which half-baked analysts? For every Liam Toland and Neil Francis (though I am a big fan of his anti-drug tirades) there's a Conor O'Shea or a Shane Horgan.
The same can be said for soccer analysts. At the end of the day, you don't have to listen to them.

The terms offload and choke-tackle are specific terms used for specific plays and actions during rugby matches. What else would they use? How can you be a spoofer if you use terms that are recognised for these specific plays and actions. I would have held my ire for "breakdown" which is over-used as much as "breaking-ball" and "holding-midfielder" are used in their respective sports.

Quote:

---

The media then use phrases like "gone to war" and "soldiers". And we laugh when England play at a World Cup in soccer?

---

And? Why do you care? Honestly, outside of the Telegraph and The (London) Times I don't think I've read things like that in serious rugby commentary.

And yes, we do laugh at England in soccer because they are our largest near-neighbour and their media is priceless preceding every failure. As I laughed and laugh at the Rugby Union side when they fail. Natural neighbourly anitpathy. See comment about Meath above.

Quote:

---

It's not a likeable team, especially now that Paul O'Connell is gone. I have a hard time cheering on 15 juiced lads in a sport that's fundamentally flawed anyway.

---

Hardly objective.

What qualities does POC possess that say Peter O'Mahony or Jack McGrath or Rory Best or Sean O'Brien don't possess that make them thoroughly dis-likable?

Quote:

---

But the most sickening thing of all is the double standards. The hero status the rugby players are given is unbelievable, and it's harder to take considering they bottled it (again) and still struggle to win a knockout game in a 'World Cup' where they are one of 10 professional teams. There has to be at least a level playing field in terms of interest and coverage.

---

There has to be? Why? At the end of the day the media are going to write how they want and what they want once they think it's going to sell papers and ads and clicks. You as a consumer can readily avoid and ignore what is published and broadcast.

If there was only one-professional team I still would be gutted that we lost. The size of the elite level is really irrelevant to this argument.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gastric

Jeez while I agree with your sentiment Bonni, a bit harsh on Meath.I suppose though when I think.of Dublin the idea of a localised atomic bomb comes to.mind!

---

Hardly that harsh really. I mean calling all 15 players on a pitch juiced is a bit rich.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

im not sure this thread would have lasted so long if there weren't actual double standards, and perhaps if rugby people don't needlessly throw digs football's way (and other sports too, lest we forget - I learnt recently that Rugby League fans are known as "peasants" in some quarters). As it happens I love both sports too and I used to be doing cartwheels when we won big rugby games, and was gutted when France pipped us to the 6N in 2007(?) but some of the guff I have read and heard in the meantime has diminished my enthusiasm.

---

In fairness, the digs go both ways. And a lot of them can be seen on this thread. It's similar to the attitude of EPL supporters wrt LOI.

And yes it was 2007. IIRC, Scotland should have had a penalty try in their game v France and we would have won the 6N. Also it would have helped if we didn't concede that last try v Italy. C'est la vie.

Interesting to note, I actually watched that game (On St Patrick's Day) in the Black Bull in Drogheda, and stayed the night in Bettystown in Co Meath.
I also got the bar to put on Ireland v Pakistan in the Cricket WC and had the whole bar engrossed by the end of it. Quality.

Maybe my antipathy dissipates sometimes.

Spot on Bonnie. Brilliant post.

I missed something:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

I have a hard time cheering on 15 juiced lads in a sport that's fundamentally flawed anyway.

---

In what specific regard do you think it's fundamentally flawed.

Aren't all sports? I mean offside in soccer is a nightmare that keeps being tinkered with without any real success.

Plus there's issues with the tackle as well; shouts of "he got the ball" seemingly absolve all dangerous tackles.

Then there's issues in Gaelic Football with time-wasting and the lack of a defined tackle. It's defined insofar as there is none.

All sports have their flaws. Some authorities seek to fix them others don't. Soccer more than most has improved substantially with early 90s innovations such as the "back-pass rule" and long may things like that continue.

And rugby has its issues with scrum timekeeping which is not being looked at in the latest raft of proposed changes from World Rugby.
(http://www.the42.ie/world-rugby-law-...24926-Sep2015/)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkStu

Spot on Bonnie. Brilliant post.

---

Thanks

I'd say one big flaw in rugby is the sheer size players need to be in the modern era. Injuries, and serious ones, are inevitable. Players at all levels of the game are getting crocked and the lifespan of a pro career is getting increasingly short. Which is a shame. I was only talking to my mum about this on Sunday. My dad was knocking on the door of an Irish cap in the late 40s / early 50s. He was as skinny as a rake but totally ambipedal (thanks eirebhoy) and a real Shane Williams type will o the wisp type player. His friends used to tell me how he won a cup final at Donnybrook with a penalty kick from each foot, from each touchline. He'd sink without trace in today's game.

For me rugby as a sport is best for teenagers* and it is also a superb vehicle for tiring out testosterone filled teenagers when they need to let loose! But even schools rugby has fallen victim to the "size matters" doctrine now, which is only inevitable. A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un. For me the ball spends too much time in the air or out of play too. That said, I think the RWC - as it always does, as does the footy equivalent - showcases the latest trends elsewhere and Argentina's expansive game seemed to do OK. All games evolve and their flaws either get fixed by rules or tactical innovation, but the size thing in rugby is hard to see going back the other way.

*Top flight rugby can be utterly gripping too, no doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'd say one big flaw in rugby is the sheer size players need to be in the modern era. Injuries, and serious ones, are inevitable. Players at all levels of the game are getting crocked and the lifespan of a pro career is getting increasingly short. Which is a shame. I was only talking to my mum about this on Sunday. My dad was knocking on the door of an Irish cap in the late 40s / early 50s. He was as skinny as a rake but totally ambipedal (thanks eirebhoy) and a real Shane Williams type will o the wisp type player. His friends used to tell me how he won a cup final at Donnybrook with a penalty kick from each foot, from each touchline. He'd sink without trace in today's game.

For me rugby as a sport is best for teenagers* and it is also a superb vehicle for tiring out testosterone filled teenagers when they need to let loose! But even schools rugby has fallen victim to the "size matters" doctrine now, which is only inevitable. A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un. For me the ball spends too much time in the air or out of play too. That said, I think the RWC - as it always does, as does the footy equivalent - showcases the latest trends elsewhere and Argentina's expansive game seemed to do OK. All games evolve and their flaws either get fixed by rules or tactical innovation, but the size thing in rugby is hard to see going back the other way.

*Top flight rugby can be utterly gripping too, no doubt.

---

couldn't agree with this more. the sight of pain killing gas being administered to players on the pitch before being carted off is all far too common these days. not sure what they can do about the size thing though but it will kill the game as a spectacle

I don't understand rugby. Why do they just seem to arbitrarily kick the ball at some points? Cricket is even weirder. Can matches really take weeks?

A new Breed of Rugby fan?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34247886.html

Clunster.

The Ireland V France game in the world cup was the most watched sporting event on TV last year - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/othe...draw-1.2485883
Strange that it beat out the Argentina game

FAI increasing social reach at double rate of GAA - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/irish...ble-trev-keane

I know someone pointed out here that the FAI had congratulated all Irish successes last year (GAA, Rugby, McGregor, etc) on social media, but it hadn't gone the other way in all cases

That thing is a load of wally.

Sure the GAA and IRFU would be at saturation point already, you cant say fastest growing, or increasing, that's marketing for sportego, whoever they are... Is Trev Keane your mate Stutts?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The Ireland V France game in the world cup was the most watched sporting event on TV last year - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/othe...draw-1.2485883
Strange that it beat out the Argentina game

FAI increasing social reach at double rate of GAA - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/irish...ble-trev-keane

I know someone pointed out here that the FAI had congratulated all Irish successes last year (GAA, Rugby, McGregor, etc) on social media, but it hadn't gone the other way in all cases

---

The popularity of the games I would say had to do with the timing of both. I was at the France game so I don't know what it was like in Dublin that day, but I watched the Argie game in the Swan on Aungier St/York St and it wasn't as rammed as expected the way it had been for pretty much all games up to that point that I had watched there including Australia v England.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

That thing is a load of wally.

Sure the GAA and IRFU would be at saturation point already, you cant say fastest growing, or increasing, that's marketing for sportego, whoever they are... Is Trev Keane your mate Stutts?

---

I thought Trev Keane was Tetsujin and tricky's lovechild. Never met him myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The Ireland V France game in the world cup was the most watched sporting event on TV last year - http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/othe...draw-1.2485883
Strange that it beat out the Argentina game

---

Those figures don't include Sky Sports viewers. All football internationals would have been on Sky too, of course. They wouldn't include viewers in pubs either presumably, would they?

Lads there's room for them all. What there is no longer room for is paranoia/victim playing from soccer fans over the GAA and Rugby getting more coverage/funding than soccer does.
If rugby and soccer team are doing badly it'll be a good year for the GAA. And if soccer team is doing well they'll get a lot of coverage etc.
I believe the LOI is getting more airtime too and long may that rise continue

As a passionate lover of both football and rugby, I absolutely hate when tw#ts like Neil Francis make such inflammatory comments. He really is a gutter journalist as well as an arrogant, smug and dim individual.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugb...-34442906.html

Jesus, he really tore the arse out of that, never funny and already massively overused, Oscar nomination for diving gag.

I did find myself thinking these exacts thoughts though, as Tony Ward mentioned the duty of care thing at the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neil Francis

In the heat of a frenzied Test match it is faintly ridiculous to say that a tackler has a duty of care to ensure that the ball carrier comes down safely. While you are carefully ensuring that your opponent doesn't hurt himself, you, yourself can get smashed in a clear-out as the moment of tender loving care ends once the ball carrier hits the turf.

---

I agree with Ward. It's not always realistic to expect to a tackler to able to get his body balanced enough in a split second to ensure a 15 stone opponent's safe landing. It seems these days that it's nature of the fall rather than the nature of the tackle is what determines the ref's reaction. You now see full backs fielding a high ball actually looking to land as if upended. It's professional sport Neil.

Of course there is no diving in any other sport than the ladies game
Certainly not GAA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Aqyr433a4
or Basketball - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I65Lqjh4fo
or Rugby - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4Tq7f0xec

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I agree with Ward. It's not always realistic to expect to a tackler to able to get his body balanced enough in a split second to ensure a 15 stone opponent's safe landing.

---

So you agree with Francis?

Ward was only pointing out the expectation I think, don't know if he was necessarily agreeing with it.

Sorry, I thought the quote above was Ward not Francis. I agree with the quoted section as I understand it. A tackler has a duty of care to tackle his opponent safely but in some cases when the tackled player gets upended - not always deliberately or even carelessly - it's just not always fair to expect the tackler to be able to bring him down safely. It requires your feet and your balance to be just right, and that's really unlikely.


Anyway, separately:

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/201...nations-start/

(although I'll be the first to admit there'll be a lot of fairweather / bandwagoners in France this summer)

Neil Francis is the Rugby version of Roy Curtis. Gerry Thornley a close second in the knob stakes

Soccer still battling for recognition in schools across the country: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...ntry-1.2535229
Just as a counter point to this, my old secondary school, (CBS in Limerick) which was hardcore GAA, no longer has a hurling or gaelic football team, but has a successful soccer team, winning the FAI Schools Cup twice in recent years

Police launch scathing attack on 'middle-aged rugby fans who drink all day and think they can behave any way they like': http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...iddle-10891543
Interesting quotes from a police chief in Cardiff, mentions that football fans can cause trouble, but will listen to the police, whereas rugby fans act like they want

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Soccer still battling for recognition in schools across the country: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...ntry-1.2535229
Just as a counter point to this, my old secondary school, (CBS in Limerick) which was hardcore GAA, no longer has a hurling or gaelic football team, but has a successful soccer team, winning the FAI Schools Cup twice in recent years

---

What would define "battling to be recognised" in that article?
Would the GAA be defined as battling for recognition in CBS Limerick or are they just not visible enough to be recognised?
Is soccer really batting to be recognised in a number of schools or are they just not visible enough?
Would it be a similar or worse scenario for rugby?
I think it's an issue for all 3 major sports, that different schools have different ethoi. And the article is just rehashing old stories of discrimination from history, to give some background cred to the claims of present day persecution.
EG. doing a quick scan over GAA teams in male secondary schools in the Dublin 1 to Dublin 6 areas, I found a large % of the schools have no GAA presence at all.