Lisbon Treaty

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Moreso than, for example, you. Apart from corruption, there's the trust that you actually have a clue what you're doing, which I'd imagine you wouldn't convince many of, or you'd have joined the cash cow yourself.

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You really haven't a clue if you think our politicians are experts in any given field. I see the internal workings of government on a daily basis and believe me, they don't know a thing. Every word you hear coming out of a politicians mouth in an official capacity is written by a civil servant, more so a team of civil servants.

How can you say they aren't career politicians? They get lucrative salaries, great perks, set up for life. All they have to do is not rock the boat for the rich and powerful and they're quids in. Same goes for most Union bureaucrats.

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

You really haven't a clue if you think our politicians are experts in any given field. I see the internal workings of government on a daily basis and believe me, they don't know a thing. Every word you hear coming out of a politicians mouth in an official capacity is written by a civil servant, more so a team of civil servants.

How can you say they aren't career politicians? They get lucrative salaries, great perks, set up for life. All they have to do is not rock the boat for the rich and powerful and they're quids in. Same goes for most Union bureaucrats.

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The rest of us would be in fantasy land if we could claim the pensions that these politicians get after a few years of being nodding donkeys in leinster house

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

The rest of us would be in fantasy land if we could claim the pensions that these politicians get after a few years of being nodding donkeys in leinster house

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Why not get yourself elected?

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Why not get yourself elected?

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maybe you could help me as you seem to be very in tune with the trough munchers.I will make it worth your while and will work very hard on my trough munching tecknique

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

maybe you could help me as you seem to be very in tune with the trough munchers.I will make it worth your while and will work very hard on my trough munching tecknique

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Did you read any other part of Animal Farm, or did you just see through munchers on a pamphlet and thought it had a nice ring to it?

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Did you read any other part of Animal Farm, or did you just see through munchers on a pamphlet and thought it had a nice ring to it?

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For a minute I thought he was looking for your help cornering the Lesbian vote! ;)

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

For a minute I thought he was looking for your help cornering the Lesbian vote! ;)

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depends what version of Animal Farm he had, I suppose :D

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Did you read any other part of Animal Farm, or did you just see through munchers on a pamphlet and thought it had a nice ring to it?

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no came up with that myself[didnt spot the lesbian angle thanks bohspartisan]
never read animal farm is that the one where its said that some are more equal than others
that would suit gavinzac

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

You've never backed a winning politician in your life, and you like it that way. You see them, as someone ludicrously called them earlier, as "the political class".

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Do I?? :o

I won't even bother replying to the rest of your arrogant, condescending nonsense. You've been warned enough times on this thread re: your attitude, I'll let the director examine it instead.

Your side lost the argument, end of story.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

no came up with that myself[didnt spot the lesbian angle thanks bohspartisan]
never read animal farm is that the one where its said that some are more equal than others
that would suit gavinzac

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Some are more equal than others? Wasn't that the point of the No campaign? No to equal voting powers for each EU citizen?

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I'm not exactly weeping into my coffee that Lisbon was rejected, but I'm somewhat more comfortable about having voted Yes and not deserving the backslaps of these clowns.

http://www.ukip.org/ukip/index.php?o...=670&Itemid=57

http://www.bnp.org.uk/2008/06/irelan...lisbon-treaty/

http://www.frontnational.com/

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Yes LR there are some that wanted a No vote that you would not feel particularly at ease with. But the people that are moaning about the democratic decision that Ireland made point to the support the No vote received from the far left and the far right. What they appear totally incapable of appreciating is that most people within these extreme political views also rejected the Treaty in big numbers. The difficulty the Yes side have in accepting democracy is very disappointing. The likes of Gay Mitchel and Pat Rabbitte have made absolute fools of themselves over the last few days.

As I said before, Cowen should go to Brussels and accept no lectures from the likes of French who rejected the European Constitution and got their way in the form of the Lisbon Treaty. After all did the Yes side not tell us that the Lisbon Treaty was Plan B after the French and the Dutch rejected Plan A. Was there any talk of a two tier Europe when France and Holland fell foul of Brussels? Not a bit of it.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Do I?? :o

I won't even bother replying to the rest of your arrogant, condescending nonsense.

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Of course you won't. You never reply to anything really, do you? I'd go back through the thread to pull up every question I've asked you that you avoided but my rice is nearly done. Maybe later.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Some are more equal than others? Wasn't that the point of the No campaign? No to equal voting powers for each EU citizen?

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my point was that you believe that some irish citizens not as fortunate as yourself do not deserve any protection from a sovereign irish goverment that they finance with their taxes
you have benifited from a free education from the irish state.How would you feel if further down the line the eu decided that this was too expensive and students had to pay as they already do in england
The people have spoken and you lost.Are you alex ferguson and expect to keep playing until you win

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

my point was that you believe that some irish citizens not as fortunate as yourself do not deserve any protection from a sovereign irish goverment that they finance with their taxes

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Protection from what? Not as fortunate as myself? I'm unemployed. What does that matter to my opinions? And what has it got to do with the Lisbon Treaty, or presumably your anti-EU views in general?

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you have benifited from a free education from the irish state.How would you feel if further down the line the eu decided that this was too expensive and students had to pay as they already do in england

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Why/How would the EU force irish students to pay irish universities for education? At the moment, they're forcing the irish government to increase our numbers of masters graduates in the most direct way - by paying for it. Also, again, what has it to do with the Lisbon Treaty?

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The people have spoken and you lost.Are you alex ferguson and expect to keep playing until you win

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We've all lost, whether we're all aware of it or not is another story.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Not as fortunate as myself? I'm unemployed. What does that matter to my opinions? And what has it got to do with the Lisbon Treaty, or presumably your anti-EU views in general?
Why/How would the EU force irish students to pay irish universities for education? At the moment, they're forcing the irish government to increase our numbers of masters graduates in the most direct way - by paying for it. Also, again, what has it to do with the Lisbon Treaty?
We've all lost, whether we're all aware of it or not is another story.

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dont worry the sky is not going to collapse tomorrow
an organisation that cannot cope with a minor setback must be very insecure.The eu can and will continue hopefully not ignoring the democratic wishes of the irish people.I voted no because I would not buy a pig in a poke.It is hard to believe that politicians expect us to vote for something that they admit to not reading and therefore not understanding.It really smacks of Ireland of the fifties/sixties/seventys when the parish priest told people what to do and think.substitute the political and business establishment for the priests with the we know best attitude.The correctness of the vote has been proven by the attitude of the losers.Many of them want to ignore the vote and carry on.If we are not careful they will stage a coup dtat and ram this treaty down our throats

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

We've all lost, whether we're all aware of it or not is another story.

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:rolleyes: Do you never give up? We've not "all lost". Also this idea that somehow the EU was responsible for our economic success is nonsense. The amount of people/entities who claim that particular accolade gets longer with every election/referendum/tribunal/partnership deal/warplane in shannon. For the first twenty odd years of our EU membership we were a basket case economically. Our success was due to a variety of factors, not least an educated workforce and the usual international economic factors that we are not immune to. What the EEC/EC/EU did though was destroy Irish agriculture by paying farmers not to produce goods while the very same goods were flow in from Spain, Israel, Kenya, Brazil, Cyprus to the benefit of the people negotiating trade deals. (And of course the detriment of the environment).

Being Anti-EU is a perfectly valid position and need not be a nationalist one. As I said I'm in favour of some kind of federal europe but the EU is overbearingly centralist. A truely Federal Europe with equal rights for every citizen would have been pushed even further away by Post-Lisbon Europe. We will only have that desirable version of Europe by taking the means of production and distribution out of the hands of a tiny few Billionaires and Millionaires and democratising the economy.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

I voted no because I would not buy a pig in a poke.It is hard to believe that politicians expect us to vote for something that they admit to not reading and therefore not understanding.It really smacks of Ireland of the fifties/sixties/seventys when the parish priest told people what to do and think.substitute the political and business establishment for the priests with the we know best attitude.

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So you didn't actually vote on the issues in the treaty, you voted with your attitude to "the establishment"?

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Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

this idea that somehow the EU was responsible for our economic success is nonsense. The amount of people/entities who claim that particular accolade gets longer with every election/referendum/tribunal/partnership deal/warplane in shannon.

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I don't know. I have no idea how to respond to this rubbish, that a child could see is simply either petulance or ****-stirring. The EU dragged us out of third world subsistence. I'm going off to do something fun, or at very least something less mind-numbingly pointless.

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

I don't know. I have no idea how to respond to this rubbish, that a child could see is simply either petulance or ****-stirring. The EU dragged us out of third world subsistence. I'm going off to do something fun, or at very least something less mind-numbingly pointless.

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please leave the ball behind so that we can still play

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

I don't know. I have no idea how to respond to this rubbish, that a child could see is simply either petulance or ****-stirring. The EU dragged us out of third world subsistence. I'm going off to do something fun, or at very least something less mind-numbingly pointless.

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Really that is a childishly simplistic reading of the situation with absolutely no regard for economics. As I said there were many factors to The Celtic Tiger. While there was EU aid to Ireland particularly in the area of infrastructure the main factors included Taxation policy, Industrial policy as well as our position geographically and the fact we speak English. Irish workers have played a significant part in the process offering high skills in certain areas and quietly acquiescing to work longer hours than workers in many European countries. There are whole books on the causes of the Celtic Tiger yet you call me childish for suggesting that there were many factors at play and insist it was all the EU's doing! :rolleyes: