Scotland V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 14th November 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

We're second in the group.

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Actually, we're fourth.

Granted, it means little at this stage, but the first tie-break is head-to-head. Germany, Scotland and ourselves are all on seven points and have all played each other once. Germany have four points, Scotland three and us one.

Next round is us against Poland, Scotland against Gibraltar and Germany against Georgia. That brings us to half-way. Can't see Scotland or Germany slipping up. So we really are on the back foot in qualifying terms.

Of course, we've only played one home game, and all optimism will return come March. For 90 minutes at least!

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Actually, we're fourth.

Granted, it means little at this stage, but the first tie-break is head-to-head. Germany, Scotland and ourselves are all on seven points and have all played each other once. Germany have four points, Scotland three and us one.

Next round is us against Poland, Scotland against Gibraltar and Germany against Georgia. That brings us to half-way. Can't see Scotland or Germany slipping up. So we really are on the back foot in qualifying terms.

Of course, we've only played one home game, and all optimism will return come March. For 90 minutes at least!

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We have to be more clever with what we have, fit our more technical players into a system that allows them to maximise what we have. Gibson is taking a lot of flack & yes he was poor the other night but there have been players who have also not set the world alight for a couple of years now. I'm not sure I ever remember Glen Whelan going around regularly making crunching tackles and breaking up play, it doesn't happen, but to be fair to the man its usually cause we are being outnumbered in that area. It seems like for 4 years or more now more often than not our midfield has been chasing shadows trying to survive. Not just against top teams but against ones that are exactly of the standard that we are at. That to me is the biggest disappointment. We haven't maximised what we have we have just adopted the view we are not very good we can't do anything different.

players like Robbie Brady need to play more from here on. Yes I ackknowledge his injury record has not been great but if he can stay fit he needs to start playing more. I'm not saying he is a messiah I'm saying technically he is better than James McClean. To me work rate should be a given. McClean offers bags of it I accept that, but I believe a Robbie Brady offering the same work rate brings much more quality on the ball. Similarly with a fit Gibson I don't believe there is anything Whelan does that Gibson when fit is not capable of, however, I do think Gibson is better on the ball with a range of passing that is important that we maximise. This is where O'Neills motivation skills come in, get the work rate out of our slightly better players.

Stephen Ward is not up to it. I think he is a liability at left back he offers not much defensively & nothing in an attacking sense. Wilson for me should ply left back.

Again I'm the 1st to admit our talent pool is limited, but let's try get a bit more creative with things rather than just reverting to type.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Actually, we're fourth.

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I'd prefer to think of us as joint second.

I think there was a Scot offside (at the far post) from the free kick which led to the corner which Scotland scored from. Did anyone else pick up on this? On much minor matters games are decided. Should we demand a replay?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I thought we were beyond primitive. Yes we tried to get it down at times but when we did we could never get between their lines, only sideways. There were lots of high balls, chips and other non-measured, purely speculative passes that put the receiver under pressure and gave the defender every chance.

Anyway, despite that I thought it was a gripping physical context.

I liked this BBC description.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30067753

Interesting how he thinks that at key times in this campaign Scotland got lucky.

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But he does add the key observation, one which usually gets ignored
"The point is that this Scotland team is now good enough to capitalise on such things (breaks), whereas before it was not".

re our style of play I was replying to a post which said we hoofed it more than Trap. In Trap's time we hoofed most every time, now we don't, except for kickouts, There's a change with O'Neill , we kept trying to play it out of defence on the floor, which we didn't under Trap. Why we are still giving impressions of a stumbling apprenticeship in elegant football and not making the 6th pass stick, instead choosing to send a 50/50 ball, is another issue. Also you could see a huge difference in the contributions between Mulgrew and Gibson in that game and both in similar roles.
Based on the reduced panel of players O'Neill could select from, the way the game did turn out, showed that he did make some poor choices on how we should play, which did not work in the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

It's taken the Scots two years to get to this point. Strachan didn't just come in and have them playing like this overnight. We've had four competitive matches and there has been an improvement in the style of football, regardless of what people, but it was clear that Scotland were a much better-drilled side than us and that's something that doesn't happen over the odd five-day training camp.

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Good point. As much as Friday night's performance pi**** me off, we do need to give MON some time to work with the players he has. He has a limited amount of good ones to be fair, but I will judge him on whether he accepts mediocrity in his players. Cases in point - Stephen Ward and Richard Keogh. They were the principal hoof ball merchants on Friday night. I would replace Keogh with Shane Duffy in a minute and I can honestly say that there are players I have played with in amateur football that could have done the job Ward did at Parkhead. He offers zero in the way of creativity or composure to the team.

Strachan made a difference very quickly though and the turnaround started early. A year and about a dozen games into MON's tenure we are still struggling for direction. He has been unlucky with player unavailability at key times but still I can't shake the impression that his instincts are cautious and this will be decisive against us.

Of all the things wrong with Friday's performance I'd rank Keogh about 27th in the list of importance. He was absolutely fine on the night. Forde's pass was a hospital pass and he had one sliced long ball at the end. I even thought Ward was OK. Limited going forward, sound enough at the back. I wasn't that disappointed in any of the individual performances, it was as a unit that we failed to gel and impress.

Look, we were missing players and we have 4 key home games coming up. It's still all to play for despite my negative view of Friday night.

Owlsfan -

Robbie Keane thought he should be on the pitch? Not really surprising?! A player thinking he merits a starting place.

Starting Robbie Keane the other night wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. The Robbie Keane of 4 or 5 years ago then yes he would & should have started. This version? His legs have gone & he's in the twilight of his career. Long will be the future of this team - it might not be as successful as the Keane era but it's time he was given a fair crack of the whip.

I have just started watching the game again and we have lumped in twice within 90 seconds!! One after SIX seconds.

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Originally Posted by bishbash

players like Robbie Brady need to play more from here on. Yes I ackknowledge his injury record has not been great but if he can stay fit he needs to start playing more. I'm not saying he is a messiah I'm saying technically he is better than James McClean. ........Stephen Ward is not up to it.

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Said it on here a couple of months ago that James McLean will be our next "proper" left back, for years to come (combative, can hold the ball and is not afraid to make a challenge). And I still believe it to be the case. Like the way you think about Robbie Brady. He has technical ability moreso than several in the team. He is the type of player we need in the final third. And you're right - Ward is not up to it, not even close.

Brady needs to be given the chance to impress on Tuesday.

Just back from Glasgow. I've flicked through the past five pages or so, I know the game's been done to death but just my two cents, off the top of my head:

- We clearly had no intent or plan to win that game. Everything about our set-up and intent was about stopping Scotland, and grabbing a draw or a lucky goal. If we wanted to play more, MON would have addressed out midfield being far too deep and our defensive forward been Jon Walters. Play JW between the lines and you're sending the statement that it's all about long balls; flick-ons and holding up hoofs. Midfield were too far from Walters to take advantage of the few balls that stuck and him and Long had not telepathy whatsoever for flicks. Ultimately if we wanted to play a bit more we needed a forward between the lines who could get on the ball and use it. In that regard, the player we missed most of all was Wes Hoolahan.

- I thought Shane Long was poor. He got no service (ala Robbie for the last 5-6 years) but he rarely (almost never) stretched their defenders (probably one of his main strengths). The game didn't suit him, he hardly saw the ball, the set-up didn't suit him but still - still he was underpar. Gibson too. These are opportunities, I want players to stand up.

- Ultimately though it's a blot on O'Neill's copybook. I'm not on the verge of turning against the management yet, but we have to see some willingness to actually play positively with the aim of winning a game. Creating chances. Troubling the opposition. With that defeat, being a team that stops is not an option (and it was never any fun anyway).

- A positive - O'Neill is less set-in-ways than Trap, as Friday's selection shows. He playing horses-for-courses even if he gets it wrong. He may have some favourites, but it's reassuring to know there's some flexibility there.

Took you less than 48 hours to swim back from Scotland Swan. Not bad. Did you have any scotch eggs?

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Took you less than 48 hours to swim back from Scotland Swan. Not bad. Did you have any scotch eggs?

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Do you get a special feeling from these left field contributions?

Its not really out of left field that he would have a scotch egg, Declan.

I agree with SvD in almost all of the above, but O'Neill needs to prove he has another way of winning the big games and pretty damned soon. Trap lost me completely when we played well in Sweden and then tried to bash the door down at home to Austria. (Note: Austria going great guns in their group btw.).

Long? I was infuriated by one dumb free he gave away deep in Scottish territory. He does this a lot. Sometimes he never cops on that its ok just to back off. He's not a kid any more. But still, I don't think Long and Walters played badly as Individusls, but they were not a unit and they were not even remotely connected to the rest of the team. People are quick to criticise Keane for being ineffective but I think being a forward for Ireland away is a tough ask. They key is to have a bona fide "three quarterist" occupying that space between the lines. Both Long and Keane get much more of the ball and more chances when they have played ahead of Hoolahan, for example.

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I do think it's kind of funny that in a week when some Scots were spouting bile at Scottish born lads playing for Ireland, the set piece that led to the goal was devised by a guy from Bradford and finished by a guy born in Malaysia with the most Irish name on the pitch!

One of my fears is say Brady does play & he doesn't impress immediately he'll be bombed back out and & it will be back to the tried & tested. We need new ideas but moreover they need to be given a chance to work & cut some slack not just go straight back too 442.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Its not really out of left field that he would have a scotch egg, Declan.

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I meant generally, Bing.

Yes. Without saying anything about the tactical ineptitude there for all to see in friendies as well as competitive games, it is extremely disappointing to see MON put down the quality of what he is working with in much the same vein as his predecessor. Now don't get me wrong, he did show better strategic management at crucial times in the Georgia & Germany game than Trapattoni did at the same stage of games against Sweden & Austria but he should be doing it right from the start.

I haven't seen a convincing argument as to why Keane should be in the team. Walters & Long each had more chances on goal than Keane would have mustered on the evidence of his previous appearances and showed signs of good link-up play; better than Keane showed when he has been paired with anyone recently.

Again, Keogh did okay - personally think O'Shea was better - but he had several nervy moments which will be consigned to the dust heap because they went unpunished.

Does anyone honestly think there isn't going to be a problem if Keane is benched again for the Poland game in March? His body language and vibes are not good; granted he'll be back in the team again for the next game anyway so it's not like there will be a problem. One step forward, too steps back and all that. Rome wasn't built in a day. With the right formation and our strongest players back, Long will impress further; though he still managed the same aforementioned link-up play that Keane is inadequate at, and on another day would have got an opposition defender sent off after showing anticipation and breaking through on goal at pace.

Panicking, dropping Long now, reinstating Keane, persisting with square pegs in round holes (Walters) is not the solution.

Personally disappointed that Keane isn't still in the squad for the U.S.A. game. If he wants to win back his place he is due a good performance and playing a top level team like U.S.A. would have been a great opportunity.

Assuming McGoldrick will be given the chance that Stokes & Murphy haven't been given and will walk straight into the team for a start on Tuesday, will O'Neill try a McGoldrick/Murphy combination that has been working so well at club level?

Edit: On a final note. The Scots were just smarter than Ireland on pretty much every level. They had players haranguing the referee at every opportunity, they had players (Naismith) constantly diving, our players didn't harangue the referee enough into being more proactive with punishing their players, you had Keane having to tell Keogh to tell Coleman to be more aggressive. This is the best sideline management they can f'ing come up with?

I didn't notice Naismith diving much in real time but I'm going to watch the game again tomorrow.

It's hard not to think your criticisms are personal. I'm not sure if it'd have mattered if keane, Long, Walters or Romario were playing upfront. The service was dreadful.

As for McGoldrick walking into the team: I have only seen snippets but Daryl Murohy himself says he is a creator of chances for other forwards. Our home games (and away in my opinion) cry out for a player like this and Hoolahan isn't playing. Maybe Brady could do this role but McGoldrick would be more of a round peg in this particular round hole so I personally wouldn't be too indignant if he starts. Stokes might have a claim but too maybe, but I'm not convinced by Stokes' hunger or attitude.

Is there any Irish player who is a teenager coming up the pipeline who is likely going to be really good?
Someone they could build a team around?
I'd like to see Ireland play in a wc again before im 90. Poor Stutts runs marathons just to take his mind off this.

Aye, but you don't know all his 'secret' training routine. Definitely athleticism with a twist...