Under-19 Squad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

The only possible defence of Celtic I could offer here is that they probably didn't destroy Afolabi - he was never as good as he was made out to be, he just had a big physical advantage at underage level that didn't exist at senior level. Southampton saw that and released him.

Other than that though, yes they've been a disaster for Irish players. Even someone like Barry Coffey - he was highly rated leaving Ireland, a few years at Celtic left him in a place where he didn't exactly tear up any trees at Cliftonville. Maybe that was always his level but we'll never know how good he might have been had he gone to a club with a better youth setup.

Their handling of Connell has been particularly dreadful - left him sitting there for 18 months and then sent him to the Scottish fourth division. Incredible mismanagement of the player's development.

I know next to nothing about Lawal but he mustn't have felt he was anywhere near to getting a shot at Watford if he has left just as they've been promoted. Only hope for him now if that he might be already ready for the first team (unlikely, I know). If he needs further development of his game through coaching and suitable reserve football he won't get that at Celtic.

---

Southampton had offered him a new contract and he rejected it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

The only possible defence of Celtic I could offer here is that they probably didn't destroy Afolabi - he was never as good as he was made out to be, he just had a big physical advantage at underage level that didn't exist at senior level. Southampton saw that and released him.

Other than that though, yes they've been a disaster for Irish players. Even someone like Barry Coffey - he was highly rated leaving Ireland, a few years at Celtic left him in a place where he didn't exactly tear up any trees at Cliftonville. Maybe that was always his level but we'll never know how good he might have been had he gone to a club with a better youth setup.

Their handling of Connell has been particularly dreadful - left him sitting there for 18 months and then sent him to the Scottish fourth division. Incredible mismanagement of the player's development.

I know next to nothing about Lawal but he mustn't have felt he was anywhere near to getting a shot at Watford if he has left just as they've been promoted. Only hope for him now if that he might be already ready for the first team (unlikely, I know). If he needs further development of his game through coaching and suitable reserve football he won't get that at Celtic.

---

I definitely disagree on Afolabi, not sure how far he would have go but I do know from the rumors that he went from not being far off making the match day squad to barley coping at Dundee…


The one bit of hope I have here in regards to Lawal is Celtic appear to have gone after him whereas the others were free agents/ at a mess of a club. My expectations are low, and not because of Lawal but because I don’t trust Celtic to get the best out of him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CSAD

I’d question who on earth is advising these kids, how many potential Irish careers do Celtic need to destroy before these players get in their heads to avoid Celtic like the plague?

They destroyed Afolabi, seemed a decent prospect before he went there, they are in the process of destroy Lee O’Connor and who knows what they will do to Luca Connell next.

My only hope is maybe they see his potential and will sign him as a first team player.

---

What a load of rubbish and I'm not even a Celtic fan. Nobody at Celtic or any other club is out to destroy our players.

O'Connor and Afolabi have been underwhelming at best on their loan moves - they are miles off the Celtic first team based on their level over the last season or 2. Connell still has a shed load to prove considering he is playing at Scottish League 2/ league 3 level.

The players themselves chose to move to Celtic based on the fact they probably offered them the best contract at the time.

I saw last season when16 yo Evan Ferguson was playing for Brighton u23s, Ben Woodburn was playing for Liverpool U23s in the same game. I laughed to myself and imagined if Woodburn was Irish the outrage and anger on here about how Woodburn's career had been mismanaged because of....insert bullsh!t excuse here..

Load of promising youngsters around but time is a true leveler for talent!

That's why 17/18 year olds that aren't on our radar now will probably be in the Ireland team in 10 years time when other high profile players will be playing away in league 1/2 etc (No disgrace in that by the way)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kennedmc

What a load of rubbish and I'm not even a Celtic fan. Nobody at Celtic or any other club is out to destroy our players.

O'Connor and Afolabi have been underwhelming at best on their loan moves - they are miles off the Celtic first team based on their level over the last season or 2. Connell still has a shed load to prove considering he is playing at Scottish League 2/ league 3 level.

The players themselves chose to move to Celtic based on the fact they probably offered them the best contract at the time.

I saw last season when16 yo Evan Ferguson was playing for Brighton u23s, Ben Woodburn was playing for Liverpool U23s in the same game. I laughed to myself and imagined if Woodburn was Irish the outrage and anger on here about how Woodburn's career had been mismanaged because of....insert bullsh!t excuse here..

Load of promising youngsters around but time is a true leveler for talent!

That's why 17/18 year olds that aren't on our radar now will probably be in the Ireland team in 10 years time when other high profile players will be playing away in league 1/2 etc (No disgrace in that by the way)

---

Why would any club be damaging potentially valuable players ? The reality is most of them are probably not good enough as are I suppose up on 95% of players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Why would any club be damaging potentially valuable players ? The reality is most of them are probably not good enough as are I suppose up on 95% of players.

---

Exactly. I see people ask why do so many of OUR players don't make it when they are promising youngsters? But its not just Irish players - it is all players as you point out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kennedmc

What a load of rubbish and I'm not even a Celtic fan. Nobody at Celtic or any other club is out to destroy our players.

O'Connor and Afolabi have been underwhelming at best on their loan moves - they are miles off the Celtic first team based on their level over the last season or 2. Connell still has a shed load to prove considering he is playing at Scottish League 2/ league 3 level.

The players themselves chose to move to Celtic based on the fact they probably offered them the best contract at the time.

I saw last season when16 yo Evan Ferguson was playing for Brighton u23s, Ben Woodburn was playing for Liverpool U23s in the same game. I laughed to myself and imagined if Woodburn was Irish the outrage and anger on here about how Woodburn's career had been mismanaged because of....insert bullsh!t excuse here..

Load of promising youngsters around but time is a true leveler for talent!

That's why 17/18 year olds that aren't on our radar now will probably be in the Ireland team in 10 years time when other high profile players will be playing away in league 1/2 etc (No disgrace in that by the way)

---

They aren’t out to destroy, they are just terrible at bringing through young players unless you come with good experience already.

And that’s all on Celtic, their job was to improve them as players and in the end they have had the opposite effect. Luca came as a championship player and 2 years later he’s playing 2nd/3rd division in Scotland…no better example of Celtic and nurturing their youth.

Yeh and that was a big mistake on their part and I worry Bosun has fallen into the same trap, I don’t know what he’s thinking, he must have been given a promise of first team opportunities.

No If he was Irish we would say exactly what he said about Masterson, that he stayed too long playing PL2 football and it’s held him back as a result and that he should be on loan years ago.

Celtic have a history of mismanaging youth and basically as long as you are Tierney or someone of that level it is rare you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kennedmc

Exactly. I see people ask why do so many of OUR players don't make it when they are promising youngsters? But its not just Irish players - it is all players as you point out.

---

Celtic have a history of this, there is a difference. There’s a reason we kick up a fuss when Celtic sign an Irish player but not another club.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CSAD

They aren’t out to destroy, they are just terrible at bringing through young players unless you come with good experience already.

And that’s all on Celtic, their job was to improve them as players and in the end they have had the opposite effect. Luca came as a championship player and 2 years later he’s playing 2nd/3rd division in Scotland…no better example of Celtic and nurturing their youth.

Yeh and that was a big mistake on their part and I worry Bosun has fallen into the same trap, I don’t know what he’s thinking, he must have been given a promise of first team opportunities.

No If he was Irish we would say exactly what he said about Masterson, that he stayed too long playing PL2 football and it’s held him back as a result and that he should be on loan years ago.

Celtic have a history of mismanaging youth and basically as long as you are Tierney or someone of that level it is rare you

---

Wasn’t Luca playing for Bolton at the time who had no Money and No Players and were probably not playing some of the players they had because they would have to pay them more for reaching a certain number of appearances ~ sometimes there is more to a story than meets they eye.

Maybe Celtic cannot compete to sign the better younger players just as they cannot compete to sign the better first team players. Don’t Celtic have some Scottish Players that they have brought through. Maybe they were just better players.

Sounds like Watford offered a year plus a year option contract to Lawal. Celtic are giving him three years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seanfhear

Wasn’t Luca playing for Bolton at the time who had no Money and No Players and were probably not playing some of the players they had because they would have to pay them more for reaching a certain number of appearances ~ sometimes there is more to a story than meets they eye.

Maybe Celtic cannot compete to sign the better younger players just as they cannot compete to sign the better first team players. Don’t Celtic have some Scottish Players that they have brought through. Maybe they were just better players.

---

The only one they brought through was Tierney pretty much all the rest came through somewhere else and were bought by Celtic, or maybe Celtic are actually the problem here, it’s quite incredible how a supposedly big club bring such little through, Irish players would actually be better off going to Hibernian or Aberdeen to develop before going to Celtic as god knows Celtic would bother bringing them through. You’ve obviously got afew that might come through but it appears those few are exceptions rather than the rule.

Ryan Christie - 54 matches at Inverness before signing for Celtic

Armstrong - 126 matches at Dundee before joining Celtic

Griffiths - 170+ matches at various clubs before joining Celtic

Greg Taylor - 111 games for Kilmarnock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CSAD

The only one they brought through was Tierney pretty much all the rest came through somewhere else and were bought by Celtic, or maybe Celtic are actually the problem here, it’s quite incredible how a supposedly big club bring such little through, Irish players would actually be better off going to Hibernian or Aberdeen to develop before going to Celtic as god knows Celtic would bother bringing them through. You’ve obviously got afew that might come through but it appears those few are exceptions rather than the rule.

Ryan Christie - 54 matches at Inverness before signing for Celtic

Armstrong - 126 matches at Dundee before joining Celtic

Griffiths - 170+ matches at various clubs before joining Celtic

Greg Taylor - 111 games for Kilmarnock

---

Having said all this too be fair if you look at the likes of mcgregor and Tierney what they both have in common is they didn’t come through during the 2010-2014 season’s or the 2019-2021 season’s that Lennon was in charge so possibly that has played a role in so little youngsters from the underage set up getting a look in, maybe that will change under the new manager so let’s hope so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Southampton had offered him a new contract and he rejected it.

---

Not according to the man himself:

https://www.the42.ie/jonathan-afolab...98504-Jun2019/

Quote:

---

Towards the end of the most recent English football season, however, the 19-year-old was told he was surplus to requirements at Southampton.
“It was a bit of a shock, because I thought I was doing well. They saw other aspects and probably favoured someone else. I’m not in control of that.
“All I can do is keep doing what I’m doing and end up at the right club.

“[Mentality is] a very big part of it. When I was told [about being released], you could be down for the next few days, you wouldn’t feel yourself, but I chose to stay in for the rest of the day. I finished off the day as normal, on the same time as the rest of the boys. We cleaned up and did our boots. It did hurt, but it’s just another stepping stone. I’m still young and I have time to make amends in a way.
“If I did wrong there, I can fix it somewhere else. It’s only the start.”

---

Celtic bring through a lot of young players but it is a massive club and you have to be exceptional to make the breakthrough.

I think some players have gone there in the expectation that its only Scotland so they should be able to get into the 1st team easily. Celtic dont sign players for 40 or 50 Million but they sign lots of guys who are good pros with plenty of international caps for 5-10 Million. Its not easy for young players to get regular football ahead of guys like that unless they are really proving themselves every day at training or when they get a cameo appearance here and there. Afolabi needed to go on loan to the Scottish Championship and score 20 goals if he wanted to be Celtic 1st team material, he can hardly get a game there. Lee O'Conor I think physically is not ready yet, he seemed to have a decent 2nd half of last season with Tranmere and is growing into mens football so I wouldnt rule him out yet because he seems to be a good young pro. Connell can look flashy at times but hes a bit one paced from what Ive seen so again, its hard to get in ahead of guys who have 20 or 30 caps for their country.

Now, in the last couple of years Lennon has run the club horrifically so the underage players might have a better shot with the new manager. But when they get a chance they have to take it. I remember Oko Flex coming on in a game last year and looking so far out of place. Im still amazed he got a move to West Ham.

I've been as guilty as anyone of blaming clubs for underage players not getting a proper chance. I did it will Millwall and Ipswich last year for Parrott, I complained about Brightons handling of Connolly at times, and plenty of others. But for the most part I was wrong. Players have a massive amount of personal responsibility. They are given endless opportunities to impress managers in training every day. Yes, sometimes luck with injuries plays a factor, but sometimes injuries are a result of the player not looking after himself properly. Connolly and Obafemi come to mind especially for that.

If Lawal goes to Celtic with the right attitude and work ethic he will get in the 1st team if he also has the talent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exgrad

Not according to the man himself:

https://www.the42.ie/jonathan-afolab...98504-Jun2019/

---

Thanks for digging that out, I was sure he was released alright but was starting to doubt myself there!

Lennon obviously didn't help things but there's more to the Celtic problem than just just him, so him going won't solve all that much.

First issue - how are young players supposed to develop in the youth setup when they rarely get the chance to play against players of a similar or better standard at that level? Apart from a few games against their city rivals the standard of youth teams in Scotland isn't good enough to help players develop. Celtic quit the Scottish youth setup for this reason but switched to hardly playing anyone at all, which was useless. Now they're putting the B team in the lowland league which, again given the standard, will be fairly useless. Shamrock Rovers II were getting better games last year than Celtic B will get in the Lowland League.

Secondly, how are players with no senior experience supposed to break through into the senior team when there is no secondary competition for them to be blooded in? Most players that break through in England follow the same path - they get a chance in a league cup game, if they go well there they might get an FA Cup game and if they impress again they'll get a chance in the league. This is possible because English clubs are usually happy to rotate for cup games. For Celtic every cup game is as important as a league game, maybe even more important, so major squad rotation is out, any changes will be experienced players coming in for other experienced players, with next to no hope of the younger lads getting a shot.

A new manager coming in is unlikely to result in a change in either of those issues. Once in a blue moon they'll get a Tierney, who was so good that he'd have broken through at any club. But even then they overplayed him when injured, which has resulted in further persistent injuries for him since leaving the club. Overall Celtic is just a dead end for youth players, not just Irish ones.

strange, a few reports around the time said he was offered a new deal
https://www.footballinsider247.com/e...-new-contract/

Quote:

---

Southampton striker Jonathan Afolabi has rejected a new deal at the club and is set to leave on a free transfer, Football Insider understands.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eirambler

Thanks for digging that out, I was sure he was released alright but was starting to doubt myself there!

Lennon obviously didn't help things but there's more to the Celtic problem than just just him, so him going won't solve all that much.

First issue - how are young players supposed to develop in the youth setup when they rarely get the chance to play against players of a similar or better standard at that level? Apart from a few games against their city rivals the standard of youth teams in Scotland isn't good enough to help players develop. Celtic quit the Scottish youth setup for this reason but switched to hardly playing anyone at all, which was useless. Now they're putting the B team in the lowland league which, again given the standard, will be fairly useless. Shamrock Rovers II were getting better games last year than Celtic B will get in the Lowland League.

Secondly, how are players with no senior experience supposed to break through into the senior team when there is no secondary competition for them to be blooded in? Most players that break through in England follow the same path - they get a chance in a league cup game, if they go well there they might get an FA Cup game and if they impress again they'll get a chance in the league. This is possible because English clubs are usually happy to rotate for cup games. For Celtic every cup game is as important as a league game, maybe even more important, so major squad rotation is out, any changes will be experienced players coming in for other experienced players, with next to no hope of the younger lads getting a shot.

A new manager coming in is unlikely to result in a change in either of those issues. Once in a blue moon they'll get a Tierney, who was so good that he'd have broken through at any club. But even then they overplayed him when injured, which has resulted in further persistent injuries for him since leaving the club. Overall Celtic is just a dead end for youth players, not just Irish ones.

---

There is more problems at Celtic, they as a club think they are bigger than they actually are and think they are too good for young up and coming players.

Lennon was the final nail as he refused to give any youth a chance in his last season as it was all about winning the SPL for a 10th time in a row and that was worth canning youth, so glad that Celtic didn’t win anything after that performance.

You probably won’t find a Scottish international that was brought through by Lennon at Celtic, any that got experience had a full season at another club under their belt.

I genuinely would rather if Lawal signed for Hibernian or someone like that.

When you have issues with the develop league like Celtic have then you need a manager who promotes youth and that can help fast track the youth in the squad, Neil Lennon was beyond hopeless at this which meant Celtic had no chance of bringing anyone through.

One source on Twitter has said Chelsea have tried to swoop in for Lawal at the last minute but have supposedly failed. That was the chance to save his potential career >:(

Also another source says Norwich and a unnamed Serie A side wanted him aswell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CSAD

One source on Twitter has said Chelsea have tried to swoop in for Lawal at the last minute but have supposedly failed. That was the chance to save his potential career >:(

Also another source says Norwich and a unnamed Serie A side wanted him aswell.

---

That is a shame. No fan of chelsea and their policy is pretty extreme but they had 32 (!) players out on loan last season across the globe. Celtic seem to stick to lower league Scottish teams.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick...e-been-faring/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zero

That is a shame. No fan of chelsea and their policy is pretty extreme but they had 32 (!) players out on loan last season across the globe. Celtic seem to stick to lower league Scottish teams.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick...e-been-faring/

---

Chelsea though atleast have changed their ways and are much more willing to give youth a chance, if Lawal isn’t in the first team plans yet at Chelsea atleast we’ll know it’s for his own best interests. At Celtic they will never give him a proper look in, he might aswell sign for Bohemians than sign for Celtic, at Boh’s he’ll be in or around the first team and will likely get a run out in the premier division whereas at Celtic he would be playing for the colt team most likely who play in the 5th division of Scottish football.

I wouldn't read anything more into the Chelsea and Serie A connections than an agent trying to raise his profile as he joins Celtic. He'll have seen how other Irish players sank without trace there.