Potentially eligible players thread

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

That is nonsense. The vast majority of people who emigrate have/had jobs over here when they leave. A significant amount of Irish people who emigrate go to America and Australia without any guarantees of work. A lot remain there when their visa's expire.

If people don't want to remain in Ireland for whatever reason, that's their prerogative, but let's not pretend they are forced into it.

Edit: OK modern context.

As for Noble, he doesn't deserve to be in the starting 11 on merit so how is he going to be the difference in us qualifying and not qualifying? It's an oxymoron. If he does get regular playing time straight away, does this effect squad harmony? It's the same thing with Given.

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Squad harmony? These blokes are in squads week in, week out where players are dropped, injured or have peed the manager off and lose their place. They are professionals who don't have to cry on a tricolour to find motivation. You seem to have a very idealistic view of these players. Ultimately, they live in a world of survival of the fittest and that includes international football. Earlier, you mentioned if players like Noble play for Ireland, it will affect the motivations of younger players. The reality is, if they play well enough, they will play for Ireland. If not, they won't. This is the reality of professional sport.

You honestly think a 27 year old who has previously expressed zero interest in playing for Ireland declaring literally days before a qualifying campaign won't cause a little resentment? You honestly think Hendrick, Meyler, Reid, Gibson and Hoolahan wouldn't be a little ****ed off if Noble was playing at their expense? You honestly think younger players would be happy to have their path to playing for their country being restricted because of near 30 year olds declaring because they give up on playing for England?

The player isn't good enough to improve Ireland - bottom line. People said Paul Green would be the answer to our problems after he concussed the ball into the net against Algeria!

A few things worth considering. He has been eligible for over three qualifying campaigns without declaring. He was said to want a place in the first team as a condition of declaring for this country. What kind of attitude will he have if he doesn't play?

Is it so much to ask for for us to have a little self-respect and pride in the jersey?

That's all I have to say. There are no quotes from the player and just two weeks ago he said he wanted to play for England. We have been down this road before so I'm not going to get any more passionate over an average, average player.

He doesn't improve the quality of the squad, just adds another body. And if true, he'll stand in the way of the development of a future star for us, thinking Jeff Hendrick. Seeing this as another step towards the all too familar stage of a manager blaming his own inadequacies on not having the players to hand .....

At the end of the day if Noble does in fact make himself available O'Neill will pick him.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He was said to want a place in the first team as a condition of declaring for this country. What kind of attitude will he have if he doesn't play?

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Have you a quote from him to back up that ridiculous assertion?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

He doesn't improve the quality of the squad, just adds another body...

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If he declares for us - he is, apart from McCarthy, our best midfielder. People who think Gibson is better are ridiculous - maybe just maybe Gibson is more talented than Noble but Noble is a regular in a Permiership - something that can't be said for Gibson.

And while I have certain misgivings about him declaring - at the end of the day if the Diego Costas of this world are doing it - who are we to turn down Noble. He's as Irish as Townsend, Houghton or any of them. If you don't cast your net as wide as you can you run the risk of falling behind - especially as the FAI couldn't give a toss about youth development.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Have you a quote from him to back up that ridiculous assertion?

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He didn't say it, but back when Trapattoni was talking to the agents of players like Noble and O'Hara, he made a comment about how agents were telling him their player would only declare if they were guaranteed to play. He didn't specify who it was but people seem to have concluded it was Noble.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

If he declares for us - he is, apart from McCarthy, our best midfielder. People who think Gibson is better are ridiculous - maybe just maybe Gibson is more talented than Noble but Noble is a regular in a Permiership - something that can't be said for Gibson.

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Because he's missed an entire year with injury and months before that. Anytime he's been fit, he's been first choice for his club.

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Originally Posted by brine3

This is what happens when you base the economic model of a country on mass emigration.

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That's a bit of a daft assertion, it's as much to do with cultural & social factors as economic rationale.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

And while I have certain misgivings about him declaring - at the end of the day if the Diego Costas of this world are doing it - who are we to turn down Noble. He's as Irish as Townsend, Houghton or any of them. If you don't cast your net as wide as you can you run the risk of falling behind - especially as the FAI couldn't give a toss about youth development.

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Except you have to have the talent to develop in the first place...you could invest billions in domestic soccer at a youth level, but there's no guarantee it's going to develop lots of quality international players!
Our pool is spread quite thinly, given soccer is not our national sport so it's always going to be a problem IMO.

Otherwise a good post, though don't share those misgivings. If anyone improves the Irish team and they're eligible (>1% DNA will do for me) and the other players accept them, who cares...

Saying Noble is better than the rest is very subjective, and nothing I'd agree with. We're not comparing Diego Costa with Conor Sammon here, no disrespect to Diego Costa intended. The assumption is Noble will apply himself to the best of his abilities but he's been sitting on the fence for countless years so why entertain Noble's whim and devalue our team this way?

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

I'm a bit torn. The idea of a 27-year-old player - who has repeatedly turned down the chance to represent us before - suddenly coming on board, now that he knows he'll never get an England call-up, doesn't sit well with me. I'm excited to see how the likes of Hendrick, Gibson, Meyler and Reid can do in this campaign, and someone like Noble coming in and possibly jumping the queue seems a bit distasteful.

Jack Charlton's squad, however, did have a few English-born players with tenous lineage, who declared late in their careers. Our success under Charlton inspired a whole generation of young Irish-born players - including Duff, Robbie Keane, Dunne, O'Shea and Andy Reid - to play football, win tournaments at underage level and become full internationals. If we qualify for tournaments, it generates interest, which is good for the game. To qualify, we need to play the best available players (while also laying adequate foundations to ensure that the next crop of young Irish talent is managed properly). I dont like exploiting the granny rule to this extent, but it may be a necessary evil.

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I'm not all that gone on this, to be honest. However, we'd be in denial if we thought that there weren't numerous England-born Irish players down through the years (who we've happily supported in idealistic manner) that would have chosen to play for England if they'd ever been offered the opportunity. Noble's case has just been a bit more discernible as he, until now obviously, has perceived his chance of an England call-up to be a bit more realistic than that of some other England-born players who might have declared for us at a younger age.

Out of interest, does anyone know who the oldest player to declare for us/switch has been to date?

If Noble does indeed decide to switch, he'll need to prove his commitment and worth to the team.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Harry Kane's ruled himself out: http://www.tottenhamjournal.co.uk/to...cter_1_3749558

We really are beginning to look like beggars.

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Well, Martin does have IFA roots. :p

Kane doesn't quite rule a switch out as the article's deceptive paraphrasing suggests. He just states that there has been no decision to switch allegiance, or even that there is no decision, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of there being some decision in the future.

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Originally Posted by Tottenham Journal

Kane is also eligible to play for Ireland through his grandparents, but he says there is no chance he will switch allegiances – and that he is happy to wait for Hodgson’s call.

“There’s no decision there,” he said. “Obviously I’m playing for England’s Under-21s at the minute and I want to break into that senior squad.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Noble getting a good bit of stick across all forums now. Part of me thinks the Mail 'source' could have been part-constructed by Noble himself to measure how Irish fans would react to him. If he's paying attention, he'll probably think it's more hassle than it's worth.

Just out of interest, how would people react if it were an uncapped Spanish or German player, lets say Illarremendi, Arteta or Lasogga, who just discovered a long-lost Irish granny? I'd imagine we'd be slightly more welcoming!

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Noble hasn't just discovered his eligibility though. He's known about it for years and has had plenty of opportunity to declare, so the analogy doesn't quite fit.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

You honestly think a 27 year old who has previously expressed zero interest in playing for Ireland declaring literally days before a qualifying campaign won't cause a little resentment? You honestly think Hendrick, Meyler, Reid, Gibson and Hoolahan wouldn't be a little ****ed off if Noble was playing at their expense? You honestly think younger players would be happy to have their path to playing for their country being restricted because of near 30 year olds declaring because they give up on playing for England?

The player isn't good enough to improve Ireland - bottom line.

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Well, the aforementioned list of players will have nothing to worry about then if Nobel's not good enough to add anything... What you say is somewhat contradictory, no?

He'll surely add competition and depth at the very least. It will, or should, motivate others to try harder; not offer them an excuse for self-pity if they miss out at his expense. He'll win me over if he fights for his position in the team along with the other eligible players vying for places in midfield and appears to be deserving of it.

I must point out though, I don't flatly disagree with everything you're saying on the matter. :)

I'm not flat-out against his prospective declaration (if he proves his worth), but I'd be reticent to celebrate it just yet. It's a bit like the Pennant case, and, if I recall correctly, that story sparked a few unfavourable comments from established squad players at the time in relation to johnny-come-lately types.

Noble fails my gut test. Badly.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Out of interest, does anyone know who the oldest player to declare for us/switch has been to date?

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Not sure, but Jon Macken must be up there? A month short of his 27th birthday when he played for us.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Noble fails my gut test. Badly.

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Has anyone ever failed the gut test and proved you wrong?

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Not sure, but Jon Macken must be up there? A month short of his 27th birthday when he played for us.

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Terry Mancini was in his 30s I think.

Bernie Slaven was 29 when he made his debut.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Noble fails my gut test. Badly.

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Tbf you could say much the same about a certain RMK, S.Ireland & probably at least a few others, on occasion.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Has anyone ever failed the gut test and proved you wrong?

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my gut composition has changed over the years!

I'm a lot more fussy than I was at the time of Charlton and Hand. I was pleased as punch when Townsend declared but he'd probably fail now, but prove me wrong. Back then, of course, the FA was asleep at the wheel so there were fewer players then who were very clearly England holdouts who switched late. Townsend wasn't a holdout, nor was Aldridge, they were just overlooked. That's a bit different.

It's been argued above that our players are grown men and professionals so shouldn't be too miffed if a latecomer comes in and nicks their place. Maybe so, but O'Neill's insistence that we haven't the players really annoys me. We have plenty of good players. I'd prefer to put my faith in Hendrick, Gibson, McCarthy, Meyler, Quinn, Reid and Hoolahan. If Noble was to replace Whelan then maybe I'd be more inclined to see this as a progressive move :)

As SF says maybe this'll be a necessary evil.

Thinking about it from a purely footballing perspective I'd be happy to have him in the squad. He is a very accomplished midfielder, he marks well, he wins the ball and he is good at keeping possession, I would say he is the sort of high-tempo central midfielder akin to the likes of Andrews and Kavanagh (possibly a step up from both) that we are missing in our squad at the moment. In an emergency he could also play out wide, especially on the right, so again he brings a degree of versatility to the squad. If we play a 4-5-1 he could be in central midfield, on the right or at a push just behind the striker (at a push but Hoolahan would be better there), if we stuck with 4-4-2 he could be one of the central ones and if we did 4-3-3 he could be a centrally defensive player, McCarthy's shield so to speak. 21 goals and 30 odd assists in almost 200 premier league games suggests he would carry an attacking threat. I think he would compliment James McCarthy very well, and Gibson's situation at Everton is looking a bit bleaker than a year or so ago (his injuries and the additions of Barry and Besic might have caused him to slip down the pecking order). Aside from the other week he's very good at set pieces (esp penalties) and, if in the starting 11 would probably be the default taker (especially if Robbie isnt playing)

All of that is from a footballing persepective, I have mixed feelings about him playing for us in terms of desire. It does feel a little bit like we are his back up plan now he thinks the England ship has sailed, a lot of the signs in terms of timing point to this, but we don't really know either way. There can be a whole host of reasons for this sort of thing, Kevin Gallen wanted to play for us but was more or less prevented from doing so by his club (QPR), didn't McCarthy himself say his grandad's dying wish was for him to play for Ireland and that was a big factor in him playing for us? It could be he made a decision at under 21 level with a degree of duress or under undue influence and the situation has just drifted from that decision - who knows how much contact the FAI had with him in the last few years, it could be that he feels like he has a genuine split sense of nationality - did Houghton and Townsend say they both felt very Scottish/Irish, maybe there is a situation like that? If Noble does declare for us and if says his motivation for doing it is honorable (for want of a better word) then I wouldnt have a major problem with it.

if noble comes on board and plays a key role in a successful qualifying campaign, most of these concerns will fade away.

personally i don't mind if one or two squad members have questionable motives as long as the team on the pitch does the job.

It's a curious management technique both Trap and O'Neill have adopted - motivate your players by publicly talking them down on a regular basis. I don't know what coaches of other sides of our level do to get their players to play above their level, but I'm guessing it doesn't involve that. If I was being cynical, I'd say there was a bit of management going on of their own reputations.

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Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

Have you a quote from him to back up that ridiculous assertion?





If he declares for us - he is, apart from McCarthy, our best midfielder. People who think Gibson is better are ridiculous - maybe just maybe Gibson is more talented than Noble but Noble is a regular in a Permiership - something that can't be said for Gibson.

And while I have certain misgivings about him declaring - at the end of the day if the Diego Costas of this world are doing it - who are we to turn down Noble. He's as Irish as Townsend, Houghton or any of them. If you don't cast your net as wide as you can you run the risk of falling behind - especially as the FAI couldn't give a toss about youth development.

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Honestly? Do you watch West Ham? They are probably one of the worst footballing sides in the Premier League. He went down to the Championship with them a few years ago. There is no way he should be shifting McCarthy, Hoolahan, Reid, Hendrick, Gibson, Meyler or even Whelan.

It's as well to give Eunan O'Kane a reward for his form at Bournemouth, a good footballing side. If Noble is much better - I sincerely, sincerely doubt it - any benefits are negated by his reticence to actually play for Ireland and any attitude problems stemming from a lack of playing time.

I haven't even mentioned Stephen Quinn. Start the season on fire for Hull and get the shaft while someone literally declares less than a week before the campaign starts and jumps ahead of him in the pecking order. It's shameful.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Honestly? Do you watch West Ham? They are probably one of the worst footballing sides in the Premier League. He went down to the Championship with them a few years ago. There is no way he should be shifting McCarthy, Hoolahan, Reid, Hendrick, Gibson, Meyler or even Whelan.

It's as well to give Eunan O'Kane a reward for his form at Bournemouth, a good footballing side. If Noble is much better - I sincerely, sincerely doubt it - any benefits are negated by his reticence to actually play for Ireland and any attitude problems stemming from a lack of playing time.

I haven't even mentioned Stephen Quinn. Start the season on fire for Hull and get the shaft while someone literally declares less than a week before the campaign starts and jumps ahead of him in the pecking order. It's shameful.

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Think you're underestimating Noble a bit. He's a very solid player at a poor team. And even if he does declare, it will take a few months, probably into 2015, before he is cleared to play.