Liverpool

Liverpool are team made up of confidence players, Gerrard, Reina and Torres apart they dont have natural leaders on the pitch. Last season with a bit more quality and experience in the team confidence was high and the players played with a degree of freedom. This season that confidence has totally gone and when you take out the likes of those three you dont have much leadership or conviction in the team and you have a squad of merely average players. Insua, Lucas, Kuyt, Benayoun, Ngog, El Zahar, this could be a Bolton or a Spurs squad.

I do wonder about letting Hyypia go - his pace wasnt great but he could have done a job every now and then, even in central midfield perhaps. Anyone care to tell me who is top of the Bundesliga at the moment? And who has conceeded the fewest goals - I'll give you a clue a Finnish defender has played 17 times for them. He had a good mentality and was a leader.

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Originally Posted by old git

yes interviewer was doing his best to put words in his mouth.. but he did after 2-3 attempts by interviewer asking was he unhappy about refs performance say yes ... but in fairness interviewer was really giving him a hard time and really asked him some other awkward questions about team & players that he was never going to answer on live t.v. ..

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All very true.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

I do wonder about letting Hyypia go -

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Well wonder no more, he wanted to go, end of story

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Originally Posted by Angus

Gerrard and Torres are not fit and are both playing badly

Both are sicknotes and it is not natural for both to be out so often for so long. Torres has a serious problem and Gerrard approaching the end

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Torres has always been a bit of a sicknote - that's arguably he ended up there rather than other "bigger" clubs. Devasting when fit, but not fit often enough.

Personally I think Benitez has taken the team as far as he can. The politics at boardroom level certainly haven't helped but I think with the turnover of players that he has overseen during his time, he has signed far too many average players. Even with the big 2 out of the team, the rest of the side should be more than capable of sustaining a high level.
Against Reading, he fielded a side full of international players against a side battling relegation in the division below....and they were outplayed.
That says it all to me now. The players don't want to fight for the club or the manager and the tactics when the big 2 are out are often negative. Time for wholescale change IMO.

Just looking at the Liverpool squad and who I would keep if I took over and it's a pretty small list tbf

Riena, Johnson, Agger, Aquilani (if a decent offer came in I'd be tempted though), Benayoun, Maxi, Kuyt, Insua, Mascherano (same as Aquilani though), Torres and Gerrard (though bids of 50m and 25m would get them from me too)

It's a pretty shocking squad in fairness

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Originally Posted by jebus

Just looking at the Liverpool squad and who I would keep if I took over and it's a pretty small list tbf

Riena, Johnson, Agger, Aquilani (if a decent offer came in I'd be tempted though), Benayoun, Maxi, Kuyt, Insua, Mascherano (same as Aquilani though), Torres and Gerrard (though bids of 50m and 25m would get them from me too)

It's a pretty shocking squad in fairness

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it wasn't that long ago that folk on here (well Liverpool fans) were saying they had a stronger squad than United!!! :D

I'd sell Gerrard. Past his best and if Inter/Man City came in with silly money for him he'd be straight out the door.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

not seen Reder on here for a while. It would be interesting to hear his take.

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He is keeping fine afaik. As a former regular match going red i'd be interested to hear what he has to say. Always good to hear fellow match goers opinions.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Torres has always been a bit of a sicknote - that's arguably he ended up there rather than other "bigger" clubs. Devasting when fit, but not fit often enough.

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Its hard for him not to be injured when you see the kicking he takes week in week out, some savage treatment at times.
I think, if offered cheaply, Fergie or Wenger would bite the hand off you for Torres.

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Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Against Reading, he fielded a side full of international players against a side battling relegation in the division below....and they were outplayed.

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All bar the keeper but as they say its not the dog in the fight but the fight in the dog.

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Originally Posted by razor

Its hard for him not to be injured when you see the kicking he takes week in week out, some savage treatment at times.

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Any good player takes more, but we're hardly talking 70's or 80's, and anyway my perception would be it's niggly muscle strains rather than injuries you'd "recieve".

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Originally Posted by razor

I think, if offered cheaply, Fergie or Wenger would bite the hand off you for Torres.

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Probably even if relatively expensive, point is they wouldn't pay the money that Liverpool did, and you wouldn't expect them to build all hopes around one player.

On the general squad, at this stage that's totally Rafa's doing - he can't be hiding behind it. Personally, I hope the match going Liverpool fans stay behind him (as it appears they are) and that he sees out his recent contract.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Any good player takes more,

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Theres very few better than Torres.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Probably even if relatively expensive, point is they wouldn't pay the money that Liverpool did,

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Fergie spent £30M on Berbatov, Torres cost £20M.

I agree that there are very few better than Torres but he doesn't take that much of a 'kicking' in fairness. Players are overly protected now, especially the top ones. He might be fouled a lot, as are Messi and Ronaldo to an even greater extent I would think. It's hardly the reason he is out so often. As suggested above he'd never have survived the 70's if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

He might be fouled a lot, as are Messi and Ronaldo to an even greater extent I would think. It's hardly the reason he is out so often

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Would agree about Messi but the other fella is on the floor as soon as he's breathed upon.

I think Torres hasn't had the chance to fully recover from the injuries he has sustained and these can lead to possible weaknesses in other areas.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

As suggested above he'd never have survived the 70's if that's the case.

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To be fair to the lad, he wasn't born til 1984

Its going to be a tough couple of years for Liverpool. They simply cannot afford, financially,to sack Benitez. Every penny that comes into the club, goes off servicing the debt the yanks have heaped onto the club. The only 2 ways money comes into the club is, 1- Selling players and 2- Winning trophies. If Liverpool sell their top players, they won't win anything. They wouldn't even get into the top 4. They won't win anything either with their current squad. Catch 22. Their only hope is for a take-over of the club, which doesn't even look like a runner at the moment.

Badly needed win last night just need to keep it going now. Thought Nick the Greek did well last night and against Stoke. Got his head to everything and gets stuck in. Tore the jersey off Crouch all the same!

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Originally Posted by Rafa B

Badly needed win last night just need to keep it going now. Thought Nick the Greek did well last night and against Stoke. Got his head to everything and gets stuck in. Tore the jersey off Crouch all the same!

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Yeah this is the key part. I thought Spurs missed Huddlestone and Lennon hugely. Huddlestone in particular as he is the brains of their midfield and Jenas wouldn't lace his boots. Even Assou-Ekotto was a fairly big loss as I'd rate him much higher than Bale. I'm not ignoring Liverpool's obvious absentees by the way but with the match at Anfield I think Spurs really needed to be at full strength. The disallowed goal looked very questionable and obviously the penalty was blatent, that said Liverpool were the more dangerous team overall and deserved their win, Kuyt could have had 4 or 5 in fairness. Completely agree about Kyriakos as well, they were tough games to come into and he has been more than solid, thought he was immense against Stoke.

Wolves away, then Bolton and Everton at home - Liverpool will have to pick up at least 7 points from those games to give them a margin for error with the Arsenal and City away games in the middle of Feb.

I thought they got a good result last night, but the performance wasn't great and the brittle nature of the defence could have been exposed by a better team. Spurs were a bit one-dimensional upfront. Maxi Rodriguez could turn out to be a decent player for Liverpool, he might give them that cutting edge they lack with Torres and Gerrard spending so much time in the treatment room, but they need to get him involved and up to speed soon.

Liverpool have watched the spurs home games with Stoke, Hull & Wolves, 10 men behind the ball, Spurs (especially without Lennon) lack the pace to get in behind and the creativity of Modric can be stiffled with numbers.
That said Liverpool had the better chances but Spurs had a cast iron penalty, Crouch could have sued for assault and I'm still confused about why Defoe's goal was ruled out, offside...foul....away team at a skyball big 4 club....
Liverpool need to be a lot better to haul in City imo, I'll be surprised if they get 4th.

What's Torres worth when fit?

80 million? If Ibrahimovich is worth that, Torres is definitely worth it.

Would any Liverpool fan not be tempted to accept that money if offered for Torres? Good bit of business I would say.

Then use the money to build a balanced team. Buy two or three good strikers, buy a couple of midfielders and a couple of centre backs.

You'd build a good team for 80 million.

City have spent a lot more than that and aren't title contenders.

The only thing that sets Liverpool apart form the terry try hards like Spurs & Villa etc.. is Torres & Gerrard, they're the 2 who can win games single handed, for Arsenal see Fabergas & Arshavin, Chelsea Lampard, Drogba, Utd Rooney and... well Rooney really.
Spurs, Villa even City really have good players even really good players but no one of that calibre, once you start to sell those type of players you're in trouble imo.
Utd's gamble with Ronaldo looks like backfiring, 80m might buy 5 or 6 Valencia's but it won't but Ronaldo's 20+ goals a season back.