The say anything, what's on your mind thread

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Just out of curiosity, what did he do or not do as Minister for Transport that you have an issue with?

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I can go on about this at length, but will stick to 2 concrete events (I'm not going to mention transport debacles or pandering to oil industry or anything to do with an idiotic attempt to revitalise metro north - I will thank Labour for averting this disaster which sadly now seems to be back on the big money menu).

1. April 2011 - Offer made to have Ireland advertised (tourism) on tennis players, cost to Ireland - free. 14 players (mainly foreign) to wear the logo as a shoulder or chest patch, the only return would be some publicity and acknowledgement. Minister, face to face, says that tennis is a miniority sport for people with money and not interesting in Ireland. Was informed that it was to promote brand Ireland abroad at Grand Slams, WTA, ITF events, that it was a cross-marketing effort which was already done previously and successfully. Was to decide by month end and do a photo op with players who were training in Ireland (in any event).
2. June 2011 - Return to offer, told we had the push on with Wimbledon and already had interviews lined up with International media channels. Kept hanging as they were "waiting on designs", Tourism Ireland were in shock with this as they'd already given the patches. Wimbledon qualifiers about to start, Players passes offered to Minister and entourage and push on to get the patches put on. After the first round of qualies, Minister and lackey tell, face to face, that nobody will take an interest in tennis in Ireland. Again - told it's NOT just for the Irish market, but for tourism! Was to agree on patches, end of first week of Wimbledon where 2 of players got a huge media buzz (Diatchenko and Niland), Minister says "it's not interesting really."

There are more, and nobody in Tourism Ireland would do anything under his watch without his blessing. It was his sheer lack of understanding of, well, everything, that was shocking and his inability to listen. I wouldn't mind but he'd actually asked for such "media wins", then was puppeted around the place.

But...he has Frank Flannery advising him now, so, roll on King Leo I!

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Gay people themselves might say otherwise: http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/...ia#.qf4pp6AwKK



David Norris claims the country is "rampant" with homophobia.

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Ireland is populated (as with many other countries) with gombeens. Walking in Clara (Offaly) and having a dunce shouting - "Go back to Dublin ye jackeens" was like something out of a begorrah movie from the 1950's.

How many of us standing in LOI grounds have heard far worse yelled at players, officials, opposing fans, all because people can be dumb.

I don't believe Ireland is homophobic, but it suits the meeja for people to believe we are.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Ireland is populated (as with many other countries) with gombeens. Walking in Clara (Offaly) and having a dunce shouting - "Go back to Dublin ye jackeens" was like something out of a begorrah movie from the 1950's.

How many of us standing in LOI grounds have heard far worse yelled at players, officials, opposing fans, all because people can be dumb.

I don't believe Ireland is homophobic, but it suits the meeja for people to believe we are.

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Pretty much nail on the head. On the same token a foreign person will look for racism, a gay person will look for homophobia. Not to tar all with one brush however though. I have a large group of gay friends and extended members of LGBT groups who would all argue against Ireland being a largely homophobic state.

While there's a massive campaign for marriage equality, it's not reflective of the country as a whole, and I'd wager a large stake that the referendum will pass by an absolute landslide.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Personally, I don't think there's the same stigmas attached to coming out as gay as there used to be. The idea of being ostracised by family and friends and fearing negative consequences outside of home and in work/public is a thing of the past.

The most widely viewed opinion of the whole thing as far as I can see is one of 'this shouldn't be headline news in the 21st century'. It shows both how far we've come in the past couple of years, as well as the fact people just don't care about a persons sexuality anymore as much to say this person has brown hair or black hair.

Of course, this isn't completely right across the board. It's no different now to something like racism, where only a very small minority would get offended by this sort of thing.

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I'd say it shows how far Ireland has come, but people thinking coming out is a non-issue shows how little they still understand.

It's not a non-issue, but it shouldn't be main headline news.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

It's not a non-issue, but it shouldn't be main headline news.

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Well it is an issue so it is headline news. And the reason it's headline news is because it is a big event in a country where people still don't feel fully comfortable coming out in public, or holding their partner's hand, etc. I'm sure there will be a time when it's so passé that nobody even comments, but we're not there.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Pretty much nail on the head. On the same token a foreign person will look for racism, a gay person will look for homophobia. Not to tar all with one brush however though. I have a large group of gay friends and extended members of LGBT groups who would all argue against Ireland being a largely homophobic state.

While there's a massive campaign for marriage equality, it's not reflective of the country as a whole, and I'd wager a large stake that the referendum will pass by an absolute landslide.

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Homophobia can be real and experienced without gay people having to go in search of it. I dunno if there's an implication there that reports of homophobia might be concocted or deluded or what? Nobody's saying Ireland is a homophobic state, but it's not exactly a sexually-liberal homotopia either.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Homophobia can be real and experienced without gay people having to go in search of it. I dunno if there's an implication there that reports of homophobia might be concocted or deluded or what? Nobody's saying Ireland is a homophobic state, but it's not exactly a sexually-liberal homotopia either.

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Danny - above you quoted David Norris as accusing Ireland of being "rampant" with homophobia. Rory O'Neill seems to believe it is. Elements of the meeja will try to teach us that it is. Interest groups will claim that it is. So people with vested interests are saying it....but does it make it so?

I agree with you 100%, it can be experienced, that is a fact. It can come from family members being worried, religious relatives thinking it's an abomination etc etc. But unless a line is crossed and people are bullied or abused for their lifestyle, then it boils down to understanding from both sides. A former professor of mine said that the lgbt debate runs along the lines of the abortion issue. 2 sides develop to suit the society, both claim complete right to feel how they feel and both claim to be completely correct. We've just come through the fanatical debate that was/is abortion/right to life, now we're into the next meeja campaign, all the while the ruling regime set us up for the next land.

Charlie - the holding hands issue is something that is generally accepted, and that sounds terrible, though it more boils down to the reaction of those holding hands and those idiots who want to make an issue of it. And it generally comes more into the area of 2 men holding hands or kissing in public.

Rory O'Neill went out of his way to explicitly say that Ireland is not a homophobic country. Which is sort of the problem - he's gay and he's shone a light on everyday homphobia, so people then interpret that as him attacking everyone.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Rory O'Neill went out of his way to explicitly say that Ireland is not a homophobic country. Which is sort of the problem - he's gay and he's shone a light on everyday homphobia, so people then interpret that as him attacking everyone.

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I've listened to Rory on a number of occasions (including a reaction to the FG crawlers) say that Ireland is homophobic, but then temper it.

And one very, very interesting note in the fightback by Enda - Simon Coveney has been left out to dry, along with Leo, for daring to rule out a coalition with FF. ANd our meeja love it!

And I've heard him say several times it's not. It's a difficult thing to nail down because when people think homophobia they think lynching and sodomy laws, not the sort of mild, intuitive homophobia that pervades. If people make seemingly contradictory statements, it's because they're being mindful of how people interpret what they say. Plus people get SO BLOODY OFFENDED when you suggest they're not as liberal and open-minded as they like to think.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

And I've heard him say several times it's not. It's a difficult thing to nail down because when people think homophobia they think lynching and sodomy laws, not the sort of mild, intuitive homophobia that pervades. If people make seemingly contradictory statements, it's because they're being mindful of how people interpret what they say. Plus people get SO BLOODY OFFENDED when you suggest they're not as liberal and open-minded as they like to think.

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:-) I know exactly where you're coming from. I remember the joke from Brendan O'Carroll (who cannot be accused of being homophobic) "I'd like to be brave but I'm not brave enough. The thought of a big hairy fella standing behind me saying "I luv ya"." Cue uproarious laughter. I think it's a very difficult issue to address. If you question the same sex agenda, you're a homophobe, if you are for it, you're a liberal, commie, sodomite promoter. What has amused me greatly is the absolute lack of perspective in the current debacle which has allowed the IMF sneak in and pat us on the backs, to allow the first shot be fired in the FG leadership battle, to allow the government away with more financial mischief and completely let an incompetent fool away with running down the health service further.

I'd say the phrase "same sex agenda" is in itself homophobic.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'd say the phrase "same sex agenda" is in itself homophobic.

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I would regard the naming of phrases as homophobic as homophobic as it means there is something to be pointed out that runs contrary to the agreed policy on sexual relations between humans.

It boils down to understanding and acceptance that people are different. If we were all the same it would be terrible, like living in Cork.

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

I would regard the naming of phrases as homophobic as homophobic as it means there is something to be pointed out that runs contrary to the agreed policy on sexual relations between humans.

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I think it would be grossly unfair to accuse those who are perceptive of or victim to homophobia (the moral judgment and negative distinction of others based on their sexuality) of homophobia itself for calling people out on it. Ultimately, identity politics may not be the most effective method of bringing about a fairer and more equal society for all, but we don't live in an ideal world. If gay people wish to collectively support one another because they feel socially marginalised due to experienced homophobia, it's not exactly their fault; it's an entirely natural and reasonable response. It's unlikely they have the luxury of being able to rise above identity politics given the poltically-fragmented society in which we already live.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I think it would be grossly unfair to accuse those who are perceptive of or victim to homophobia (the moral judgment and negative distinction of others based on their sexuality) of homophobia itself for calling people out on it. Ultimately, identity politics may not be the most effective method of bringing about a fairer and more equal society for all, but we don't live in an ideal world. If gay people wish to collectively support one another because they feel socially marginalised due to experienced homophobia, it's not exactly their fault; it's an entirely natural and reasonable response. It's unlikely they have the luxury of being able to rise above identity politics given the poltically-fragmented society in which we already live.

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Danny, my post was a response, tongue in cheek, to Charlie's on homophobia. Sorry :-)

I agree on the "you're a homophobe" response from people who have had a slagging/abuse for a long time etc, or a fear. It's the same as black people saying "you're racist" under the same conditions. I always have an issue with both (reactions) as they are too often used to erase debate and discussion, thus limit understanding. It's a catch all response - here if you're not in support of Putin you're against Russia. George Bush - if you're not with us you're agin us. Fear is the key to retarding conversation, which is a killer.

My only take on the Leo "step out", is the ploy from his advisor (Flannery) to put him in a position to take the Taoiseach-ship, because if anyone questions him (from now on) the brush is covered with the tar of a) racist, b) homophobe. This was brought out by Leo himself and his media handlers (due to his parentage and sexual persuasion). Plus much was made of his "fine head of hair". Really, we get the muppets we deserve ruling us!

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Originally Posted by Spudulika

Danny, my post was a response, tongue in cheek, to Charlie's on homophobia. Sorry :-)

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Ah, fear not. :)

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'd say the phrase "same sex agenda" is in itself homophobic.

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Waterford Whispers News re-posted this on Facebook today; an hard-hitting investigation exposing the murky underworld of them gays: http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/201...-gay-marriage/

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Originally Posted by WWN

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If I’m honest it was at this point I started to worry: except for being Irish, living in Ireland, paying taxes, working, enjoying friendships, films, music, laughter, long walks on the beach, that episode of Friends where Joey and Chandler win Rachel and Monica’s apartment after beating them in that quiz, what on God’s green Earth had I got in common with these creatures? The answer terrifyingly was: nothing.

I had caught a glimpse into their strange twisted world and I did not like it. I persisted, venturing into a ‘pub’ where they drank libidinous liquids but I refused to dip my toe in that well. I had heard rumours this strange drink made you lose your inhibitions and I have long suppressed the fact that I, like, everyone can identity when a member of the opposite sexual orientation is classified as ‘attractive’. I was forced to drink it in the end using a strange blend of charm and burgeoning friendship.

They had nearly caught me out. I had almost danced to a song by Madonna. I left enraged that the gay agenda has clearly upped its game since the days of being loudly discriminated against by a powerful and ignorant few.

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Product placement is everything.

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/...06&oe=555BC906

Nigel - this is brilliant! I just saw it on WWN, came on to comment and.....what's amazing, as well as the advert, are the 2 pieces of other news on the page, sunk in to eithe rget people to read or to avoid reading. IS and Libya! Great editor I suppose!

I was just trying to remember, but it's maybe google, but if the newspaper people were using one of the editor programmes that is also net/adword linked, this is what happens! Gas chamber - advertiser is Gas company, hey presto, on the same page.

But those "lady boy holidays" ads that keep popping up on my work computer are pure conicidence, honest!