James McCarthy M free agent b.1990

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Rightly or Wrongly, Il Trap has policies. Once the squad is in qualifier mode, the squad changes as little as possible. I'm perfectly comfortable with that. Novembers friendly is a different matter.
Here's the scenario. Trap has a week to work with the players before the biggest two games of this campaign. Without knowing the exact intricacies of a big match build up, I imagine, trying to assimilate new players into a squad, its formation, its tactics etc, is the last thing Trap wants to do. The more I think about it, the more I respect Trapattoni. He has a scenario where the squad will turn up tomorrow and every one of them(save Coleman) will know the inner workings of the squad, system, whatever. How frustrating would it be for Dunne, Duff, Keane etc, if every international meet up, began with the coaches teaching the same basics to every new member called up, especially in a competitive week.

And before anyone mentions Coleman as a precedent for a McCarthy/Walters call-up, I think Tets summised it prettly succinctly.

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Not really valid - A lot of the squads that he's named has had new players in it whether its for competitive games or not.

The squad at the moment is an ageing squad and by the time the Euro's come around a fair few of them will be well into their 30's.

McCarthy is / will be an international quality player for many years to come injuries permitted. I dont see any harm in him being blodded at any early age.

After all our midfield is no great shakes and the more options we have there the better in my opinion.

He wont get experience sitting on his ass in Wigan.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Not really valid - A lot of the squads that he's named has had new players in it whether its for competitive games or not.

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Give me a couple of examples.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Not really valid - A lot of the squads that he's named has had new players in it whether its for competitive games or not.

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The vast majority of new caps and first appearances under Trapattoni have been in friendly games

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The vast majority of new caps and first appearances under Trapattoni have been in friendly games

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Kevin Foley
Eddie Nolan
Seamus Coleman

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Kevin Foley
Eddie Nolan
Seamus Coleman

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Lazy, lazy, lazy.

Kevin Foley was in Traps first squad for a portugal training camp
Eddie Nolan got his first taste of action under Trappattoni against Nottingham Forest
The Seamus Coleman one, I'll give you, but surely you see the distinction between calling up Coleman for the injured Kelly and calling up McCarthy when there are 4, 5 if you include Fahey, central midfielders already in the squad who don't merit losing their place.

[QUOTE=joe_denilson;1407620]Lazy, lazy, lazy.

Kevin Foley was in Traps first squad for a portugal training camp
Eddie Nolan got his first taste of action under Trappattoni against Nottingham Forest
The Seamus Coleman one, I'll give you, but surely you see the distinction between calling up Coleman for the injured Kelly and calling up McCarthy when there are 4, 5 if you include Fahey, central midfielders already in the squad who don't merit losing their place.[/QUO

The training camps and the Forest game hardly class as competitive matches.

You seem to be missing the point why I think McCarthy should be called up.

As I've already stated - he's a class act - he's going to be a top international.

What's so bad about bringing him in now - in every walk of life experience is key.

Ah, I forgot, he wouldn't fit into the system and the likes of Kehoe, Andrews, Treacy and Fahey are world class midfielders.

I think he is ready for the squad, no question. He has all the attributes of shaping into the complete midfielder but I have no issues with Trap not calling him up. He missed the pre WC friendlies. Probably 2 games too far for such a young lad. Looks like he missed his place in the queue for a few months. Even at a cost of missing out on James for a few games, I agree with the principle that nothing short of hospitalisation should keep a young player away from a squad meet.
I suspect even a genuinely injured players like Duff will find that the player who turns up fit & regular, is ahead of him.

If we lose against Russia , I´ll be back to delete this post.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

The training camps and the Forest game hardly class as competitive matches.

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Which was my point in the first place?

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

You seem to be missing the point why I think McCarthy should be called up.

As I've already stated - he's a class act - he's going to be a top international.

What's so bad about bringing him in now - in every walk of life experience is key.

Ah, I forgot, he wouldn't fit into the system and the likes of Kehoe, Andrews, Treacy and Fahey are world class midfielders.

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I see your point, but its moot. Look, I'm not trying to get into an argument with you. I'd like to see McCarthy called up too. I agree he's a class act. He's not one for the future, he's one for now.

My point is this. He missed the last meaningful training camp. Trapattoni, in qualifier mode as I've already said, doesn't want to waste time teaching McCarthy the system. He's already on record saying that he'll be involved in November. He's already on record saying that Fahey and Green impressed and it'd be unfair to drop either. I'm not asking you to agree with Giovanni, I'm asking you to understand him. Capiche?

On a sidenote, Sheridan and Treacy both playing the best football of their career, both dropped from the squad but I don't see a song and dance about their omission. Why's that? Oh I forgot, they don't feature on the Sky Super Soccer Saturday league show like J Walters who impressively equaled Michael Reddys premier league record.

In fairness to Trap, in the 2-3 years in charge, he has brought through a lot of new players. One thing he appears to believe in, is loyalty. This worked well for McCarthy with certain players who werent doing well at their clubs but put in a good shift any time they played in the green. Perhaps Trap is working on a similar mentality.

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

He's already on record saying that he'll be involved in November.

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I wasn't aware of this. Good to know, and fair enough really.

Yeah, I agree he did miss the training camp but in fairness to him he did come over to Dublin and got the opinion of the FAI doctor.

And yes, I agree with you about Sheridan and Treacy - especially Treacy.

Look I'll be honest with you I'm not a huge Trappatoni fan. I think he's rode his luck a lot since he took over.

Our style of football is not easy to watch under him. You can argue we are getting results and yeah we have improved in some araes - we are harder to beat. But we got ouy of jail in Armenia. We should have been out of sight against Andorra but we let them into the game with that goal - ok they were never going to beat us but we were not great to watch.

Our midfield is a worry, our distribution needs a lot of work, our passing is suspect.

I really hope we get results against Russia and Slovakia but I'm not convinced.

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Originally Posted by Sullivinho

I wasn't aware of this. Good to know, and fair enough really.

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Just to tidy up, in case anyone thought I was making it up.

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Originally Posted by Giovanni Trapattoni

'We looked at McCarthy against Brazil and continue to keep an eye on him,' the manager said. 'We called him into the squad for the games against Paraguay and Algeria but he phoned and said he was tired and wanted a rest.
'Another opportunity will come for him, possibly against Norway in November. I want to see him in a friendly. Norway are a strong team and a game like that will build his mentality. So we will try things against Norway and maybe try McCarthy.'

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http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n55193646/

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Our style of football is not easy to watch under him. You can argue we are getting results and yeah we have improved in some araes - we are harder to beat. But we got ouy of jail in Armenia. We should have been out of sight against Andorra but we let them into the game with that goal - ok they were never going to beat us but we were not great to watch.

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You can hardly blame the manager for his star defender having a brain fart defending a long ball against the run of play.

Our midfield play is demoralising but I think as long as our current options are so injury-prone we'll have to deal with the lack of imagination in there. The next week a a half will show us how much we've progressed.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Look I'll be honest with you I'm not a huge Trappatoni fan. I think he's rode his luck a lot since he took over.

we got ouy of jail in Armenia. We should have been out of sight against Andorra but we let them into the game with that goal - ok they were never going to beat us but we were not great to watch.

Our midfield is a worry, our distribution needs a lot of work, our passing is suspect.

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Were we ever in jail in Armenia? We missed 3 or 4 clear cut chances, none of which Trap missed, and all we conceded was a few scary moments where they put us under no more pressure than you'd ever expect to be under in any international. You've been reading The Indo too much. For every perceived stroke of luck we've received I'm confident I can offer an equal amount of misfortune.

We were out of sight against Andorra until a half-error was punished by a strike of absolute top quality, even if it was only by Andorra. Even Spain would probably not have taken advantage. We responed within 10 minutes with a goal of good quality and were denied a stonewall penno when Doyle was absolutely steamrollored. KK and LL both missed clear chances. Only a "glass half empty" guy would say we didn't beat Andorra well.

I've been watching Ireland since the late 70s. Bar a few seasons our passing has always been suspect.

All I'll grant you is that it's not entertaining. I'm an Arsenal fan and watched them play very enterprising and entertaining football this afternoon. They lost to a team that played more effective football. Quite easily in the end.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

You seem to be missing the point why I think McCarthy should be called up.

As I've already stated - he's a class act - he's going to be a top international.

What's so bad about bringing him in now - in every walk of life experience is key..

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agree 100% with this.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Were we ever in jail in Armenia? We missed 3 or 4 clear cut chances, none of which Trap missed, and all we conceded was a few scary moments where they put us under no more pressure than you'd ever expect to be under in any international. You've been reading The Indo too much. For every perceived stroke of luck we've received I'm confident I can offer an equal amount of misfortune.

We were out of sight against Andorra until a half-error was punished by a strike of absolute top quality, even if it was only by Andorra. Even Spain would probably not have taken advantage. We responed within 10 minutes with a goal of good quality and were denied a stonewall penno when Doyle was absolutely steamrollored. KK and LL both missed clear chances. Only a "glass half empty" guy would say we didn't beat Andorra well.

I've been watching Ireland since the late 70s. Bar a few seasons our passing has always been suspect.

All I'll grant you is that it's not entertaining. I'm an Arsenal fan and watched them play very enterprising and entertaining football this afternoon. They lost to a team that played more effective football. Quite easily in the end.

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Dont think the Armenia game was as comfortable as you make out.

Stats for both games - 6 goal attempts against Andorra - they had 4

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro2012/mat...ics/index.html

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro2012/mat...ics/index.html

Yip, we got the expexted six points and I'm happy with that

And if we qualify with stats like that I'll be even happier

As regards your glass half empty and the Andorra result I wouldnt say we beat them well - we did the job but it was hard to watch. I was there with my son and his mate - we travelled up from Waterford - I took a half day from work - all in all the day out cost in the region of €400 between tickets, petrol, food, programmes etc. Thats a lot of money to fork out these days and for that type of money you'd expect to be entertained.

Yes results matter but so do performances and the Aviva was far from full - they can get all the results they want by whatever means but playing in front of half empty stadia wont be nice either.

I wouldn't care if we played in front of one man and his dog if we qualify for major tournaments. As much as I sympathise with how much you forked out, results win over entertainment any day.

I don't care about the stats against Armenia. Keane missed two sitters to put us out of sight and all Armenia did was try a few shots that you'd expect any home team to try. Are Chelsea fans moaning that Arsenal had two thirds of today's possession and most of the efforts on goal? Even that's not a fair comparison.

I appreciated the Andorra performance for what it was. It could have been more but wasn't. It wasn't even remotely hard to watch and it was a comfortable win. 3 times we needed a goal, 3 times we got one without much fuss. If you want to see pedicatable easy wins buy a season ticket at Chelsea or Ibrox, otherwise get a reality check and support the BIG because they need it. We're not Spain or Germany. We're playing Russia next. A world superpower with 30 or 40 people for every one that we have and no other code of football to compete with. Some of us even fancy our chances. Bizarre.

The economics of today's Ireland is hardly Trapattoni's fault. He didn't buy land in Ballsbridge for EUR 400 million, nor did he think it wise to lend against it.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I don't care about the stats against Armenia. Keane missed two sitters to put us out of sight and all Armenia did was try a few shots that you'd expect any home team to try. Are Chelsea fans moaning that Arsenal had two thirds of today's possession and most of the efforts on goal? Even that's not a fair comparison.

I appreciated the Andorra performance for what it was. It could have been more but wasn't. It wasn't even remotely hard to watch and it was a comfortable win. 3 times we needed a goal, 3 times we got one without much fuss. If you want to see pedicatable easy wins buy a season ticket at Chelsea or Ibrox, otherwise get a reality check and support the BIG because they need it. We're not Spain or Germany. We're playing Russia next. A world superpower with 30 or 40 people for every one that we have and no other code of football to compete with. Some of us even fancy our chances. Bizarre.

The economics of today's Ireland is hardly Trapattoni's fault. He didn't buy land in Ballsbridge for EUR 400 million, nor did he think it wise to lend against it.

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Yeah, I take where you're coming from and as I have stated as well that if we qualify with those stats and performances like we're playing I'll be just as happy as everyone else.

But you take the play-offs against France. In the first game in Croke Park we played the "system" and it backfired on us bigtime.

In the second leg we went out and played football and went at the French and almost pulled it off.

Now you'll argue that the French were on the decline but they were still a quality team.

There seems to be a presumption that we don't have the players - I dont agree and to me that's a cop out - we have one or two problem areas i.e. left back and centre mid. But in general we have a very good squad and could be stronger if some of the players being left out were called up or when some of the promising younger players come thro'.

I just dont like the style of play and I'm entitled to that opinion.

We have two huge games coming up in the next week and I just hope we get results. I just want to see a bit of adventure and creativity - is that too much?

As regards your other comments - I support Waterford Utd. and Leeds and have for 40 years so that says enough about having to watch dour football. Also I'd rather eat glass than go to Ibrox.

I dont get your Trapattoni and the economy comments as they dont relate to what I said. Even during the boom it would have cost that much to travel up to a game. I'm lucky enough to be still in a job so the cost dosent affect me that much.

Oh, and I dont read newspapers especially the Indo.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

I just dont like the style of play and I'm entitled to that opinion.

We have two huge games coming up in the next week and I just hope we get results. I just want to see a bit of adventure and creativity - is that too much?

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We're not going to change our style of play on the eve of two important qualifiers. Trapattoni's favoured style of play and approach to competitive games is not going to change either, regardless of the quality of player available to him.

While I'd also like McCarthy to be looked at, his inclusion or non-inclusion in the squad is not going to change Trapattoni's tactical philosophy. And while we're on the subject of McCarthy, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the lad is considering his international options. Scotland aren't exactly quiet in their ongoing interest in recruiting McCarthy so perhaps he himself has made himself unavailable for selection as he mulls over his options.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

We're not going to change our style of play on the eve of two important qualifiers. Trapattoni's favoured style of play and approach to competitive games is not going to change either, regardless of the quality of player available to him.

While I'd also like McCarthy to be looked at, his inclusion or non-inclusion in the squad is not going to change Trapattoni's tactical philosophy. And while we're on the subject of McCarthy, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the lad is considering his international options. Scotland aren't exactly quiet in their ongoing interest in recruiting McCarthy so perhaps he himself has made himself unavailable for selection as he mulls over his options.

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In the same way we didn't change it in the 2nd leg against the French.
We'll have to wait and see.

Funny, as regards McCarthy, was thinking the same myself.

McCarthy will get his chance next month (Norway game). He has just got to make sure he arrives in one piece and doesn't miss the squad through injury. Once in then the Trap will keep him around. If I was manager then McCarthy would be selected but what do I know? He's looking the part and unlike Whelan/Andrews/Gibson he is considered first choice at a PL club.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

In the second leg we went out and played football and went at the French and almost pulled it off.

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We were a goal down and needed to score 2. The game needed to be chased.
So yeah, we chased the game against a team who were in a different mindset from the first game after getting their away goal. That's how we play if we go a goal down, the Paris game was no different.

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I dont get your Trapattoni and the economy comments as they dont relate to what I said. Even during the boom it would have cost that much to travel up to a game. I'm lucky enough to be still in a job so the cost dosent affect me that much.

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I took a half day from work - all in all the day out cost in the region of €400 between tickets, petrol, food, programmes etc. Thats a lot of money to fork out these days and for that type of money you'd expect to be entertained.

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Considering how we have been playing the game under Trap and you don't like the style we play and style is important to you, would you not be better advised to stay at home?

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

In the same way we didn't change it in the 2nd leg against the French.

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There wasn't a change in approach for the game against the French. Quite the contrary. Trapattoni has shown himself to be quite flexible and prepared to be more positive when we are chasing the game. He's been very consistent in his approach of let's not get beat.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

There seems to be a presumption that we don't have the players - I dont agree and to me that's a cop out - we have one or two problem areas i.e. left back and centre mid. But in general we have a very good squad and could be stronger if some of the players being left out were called up or when some of the promising younger players come thro'.

I just dont like the style of play and I'm entitled to that opinion.

I dont get your Trapattoni and the economy comments as they dont relate to what I said. Even during the boom it would have cost that much to travel up to a game. I'm lucky enough to be still in a job so the cost dosent affect me that much.

Oh, and I dont read newspapers especially the Indo.

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The economy remarks were in context of the empty seats at the Aviva.

I think we all wish we were more entertaining, other things being equal, but after the 8 years we've had it's all about results for me.

I agree with you on the "we don't have the players" cop out, always have. What exactly do we not have the players for anyway? CM and LB are weak areas, but it's precisely because of the waek CM that Trap sets this team out to be cautious. If not, CM would be more exposed, like it was in Cyprus for example.

Geysir

Why should I, regardless of what my opinions I still support the team and I'm not one of the boo boys you hear at the ground when things aren't going right.

I've stated all along that as long as we're getting the results that's what matters. All I'm saying is that we could be more adventurous.

On a forum like this you can comment on matters that concern you and have a debate with others who may not share your view. But thats the whole point of these boards.

I've shared my views and thats what they are.


I'm sure there's plenty who do and who dont.

For you to state that I should stay away is pure childishness.

As regards the French games part of the reason we were chasing the 2nd leg was because of the tactics in the 1st match. If we employed the same approach in the 1st leg as we did in the 2nd who knows it could have been a very different story.

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Geysir

For you to state that I should stay away is pure childishness.

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Not quite, if you are going to go to a game, give a detailed account of all the time it took & the money you paid to get there and expect to be entertained in the way you want to be entertained, then I'd say stay at home.

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As regards the French games part of the reason we were chasing the 2nd leg was because of the tactics in the 1st match. If we employed the same approach in the 1st leg as we did in the 2nd who knows it could have been a very different story

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Sure it could have been different - we could have been 2 down in the first game or 2-1 down.

Perhaps Trap is simply sticking to his principles and doesn't feel it's fair to allow McCarthy to waltz into the squad for competitive games at the expense of one of the other players when he couldn't be bothered showing up for the summer training camp.

[QUOTE]Not quite, if you are going to go to a game, give a detailed account of all the time it took & the money you paid to get there and expect to be entertained in the way you want to be entertained, then I'd say stay at home.[QUOTE]

I'd hate to see your year end accounts if you thought that was detailed.

Look I follow the team no matter what. And, yes i do expect a certain level of entertainment when I go to a football match - what's wrong with that?

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Sure it could have been different - we could have been 2 down in the first game or 2-1 down.

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My god. You're so negative!!

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Originally Posted by greendeiseboy

Look I follow the team no matter what. And, yes i do expect a certain level of entertainment when I go to a football match - what's wrong with that?

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This

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I took a half day from work - all in all the day out cost in the region of €400 between tickets, petrol, food, programmes etc. Thats a lot of money to fork out these days and for that type of money you'd expect to be entertained.

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Anybody who had been watching the team knows pretty much what to expect.

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My god. You're so negative!!

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I'm not the one moaning

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Originally Posted by geysir

This


Anybody who had been watching the team knows pretty much what to expect.


I'm not the one moaning

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Hardly detailed.

Who's moaning, I'm stating an opinion but just because it differs from yours it's moaning - fair enough.

I think for now the news story on the Keith Treacy thread, if true, supercedes anything we've being discussing here.

Don't know if anyone was watching the webcast after the game on RTE, but Liam Brady did not know that McCarthy was still eligible for Scotland. He thought the cap v Brazil locked him in to playing for us. He also said 'someone should tell Trappatoni'. So, this is where €2m a year is getting us. I find it hard to excuse. There was also a mistake with O'Hara if I'm right, that Brady thought he was eligible at one stage and then he wasn't. Pretty hard to believe management don't pay attention to these things.

Brady namechecked McCarthy in the post match discussion as well, the tv was turned down in the pub so I didn't catch what he said

He said it was far more likely that a McCarthy-type player would be more likely to break into the squad than Andy Reid. He also said Reid won't play for Ireland under Trapattoni.

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Originally Posted by DeNiro

Don't know if anyone was watching the webcast after the game on RTE, but Liam Brady did not know that McCarthy was still eligible for Scotland. He thought the cap v Brazil locked him in to playing for us. He also said 'someone should tell Trappatoni'. So, this is where €2m a year is getting us. I find it hard to excuse. There was also a mistake with O'Hara if I'm right, that Brady thought he was eligible at one stage and then he wasn't. Pretty hard to believe management don't pay attention to these things.

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Some joke that is.

Maybe someone should write a letter to Trap and co and tell them that if they are going to be arsed to find out this stuff for themselves then they should regularly read foot.ie.

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Originally Posted by elroy

Maybe someone should write a letter to Trap and co and tell them that if they are going to be arsed to find out this stuff for themselves then they should regularly read foot.ie.

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Brady actually said someone should tell Trap about it... Bloody hell.

I don't for a minute expect McCarthy to defect but that level of awareness (and lack thereof) ain't impressive at all.

It's an absolute disgrace that people who are involved in our setup haven't even read the rulebook. I was reading the interview in YBIG with Barry Maguire where he said that Don Givens gave him misleading information regarding eligibility rules. If us lot can learn the rules why not the people who get paid to run our teams!

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Originally Posted by boovidge

It's an absolute disgrace that people who are involved in our setup haven't even read the rulebook. I was reading the interview in YBIG with Barry Maguire where he said that Don Givens gave him misleading information regarding eligibility rules. If us lot can learn the rules why not the people who get paid to run our teams!

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Made the exact same point in the post game thread. It's sickening really. If any of us on this forum got 30 minutes with the management team, we'd probably point out at least 5 or 6 players they didn't even know were eligible. Brady's ingnorance of McCarthy was the most damning error i've seen a member/former member of the FAI. Sickening, the only word for it.

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Originally Posted by rebelmusic

Made the exact same point in the post game thread. It's sickening really. If any of us on this forum got 30 minutes with the management team, we'd probably point out at least 5 or 6 players they didn't even know were eligible. Brady's ingnorance of McCarthy was the most damning error i've seen a member/former member of the FAI. Sickening, the only word for it.

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Unbelievable - additionally why are the FAI not ensuring Trap is aware of the risks of his selection policy.

Not that it is any excuse for Brady or Trap.