Is it my poor memory that makes me remember Finnan retiring from International duty while he still had a Liverpool career?Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
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Is it my poor memory that makes me remember Finnan retiring from International duty while he still had a Liverpool career?Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Nope, your memory is correct. He did retire and then came back when Trap was appointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
What about Lee Carsley and Dean Kiely.... should they have apologised first before returning to play after retiringQuote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
did Roy Keane apologise for deserting his country before he came back?
Look Stephen Ireland either comes back fully committed or he doesnt come back at all, no in betweens - no apologies necessary, as long as he does his talking on the pitch.
No, but Roy Keane received an official apology from the FAI for the treatment he received in Saipan. He was sent home, he did not walk out on his country. Big difference. I'm amazed people still do not realize this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
come on..u cant be serious!?
keane walked out durin the world cup and he had the chance to return!!
young stephen ireland has done nothin wrong..hes 21 with 3 kids for god sake..
roy went back home to wallk his dog!!!!
we need ireland back in the team and any1 who wud even think of givin him a bad reception shud stay at home...
Mick McCarthy sent Roy Keane home. End of story. Maybe you were only fourteen or fifteen at the time but that's what happened. Just the facts.
I hate to bring this back up again but let's look at the only "facts" we have - those accounts given by the people in the room. If you have ever listened to Keane's side of the story it goes as follows (as he said publicly during his 2003 appearance on the Dunphy chat show on TV3).Quote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
"Nobody sent me home, I left". The version in his biography is consistent with this.
During the infamous confrontation in the hotel ballroom in Saipan all the published accounts (Keane, McCarthy & Quinn) agree that Keane told McCarthy to "shove your world cup up your jacksey" and walked out of the room. Mick McCarthy claimed in the subsequent press conference that he had sent Keane home but its not clear that he ever actually said this to Keane (who had already sequestered himself in his hotel room). Roy claims he left Saipan of his own accord but Mick claims he sent him home - which account do you believe? Despite having plenty of opportunities, Keane chose not to play for Ireland for another two years so he wasn't exactly desperate to come back.
On another point of fact the FAI never apologised to Keane (and neither has he for that matter). They accepted the findings of the Genesis report regarding poor logistics and planning but at no stage have they ever said that Keane was correct (nor should they).
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastTerracer
There you go. End of story. Let's stay on topic.
Sorry Colbert Report but selective quotes out of context are the only way you can ever claim to win that argument. That debate hasn't been resolved in 6 years and its unlikely it ever will be. We can all quote our own version of the facts but we'll never agree.
Ok back to the topic - if Stephen Ireland is selected in a squad and turns up then that should be the end of the discussion. If he wants to play let him. If he doesn't want to play then let's leave it at that until he changes his mind.
[I]"Ireland's father Michael, himself a former Irish U-21 player with 16 caps, believes his talented son is ready to play for Ireland again as the country bids to land a spot at the 2010 World Cup.
Speaking in today's Irish Daily Star Sunday, the 39-year-old revealed: 'The country needs him, he's a good player and he'll go back in his own time. He's just focusing on his family right now and Man City. He's keeping his head down, but he'll be back hopefully next year.'
He added: 'I would never put pressure on him but I'd love to see him at the next World Cup.'
Asked if he is considering a return himself, the Cobh-born 22-year-old added: 'Yeah, yeah, but I'm trying to keep the head down at the moment.'
The attributed quotes above are not compelling evidence to suggest he'll be back in the short term unfortunately.
There'll be no major gain in him returning in the Autumn if we've blown it by then.
There's a temptation to turn our attention to the head to heads with Italy and Bulgaria without concentrating on the Georgia at home game.
This game is massive, as a win against Georgia could be an insurance against an adverse home result against Bulgaria.
Personally, I think Ireland can be accomodated within the starting eleven - where he'd be best deployed is certainly up for debate. Trapp could retain the defensive centre and possibly tinker with the attacking formation to include Ireland.
I think Ireland - in comparison to everyone else currently at our disposal - has the composure to take a chance when it comes his way.
This can't be said of Duff, McGeady or Keane in this campaign.
Good points, well raised wolfie! I definitely think he has the presence of a whipper-snapper without a care and is composed enough to take the chances, that others have lacked, such as in the game against montenegro, in a game like that as with slovakia away he took his chance and it wasn't an easy one. I htink he would have done the same against montenegro. Anyway the Georgia game is massive and whatever about insurance point it puts serious pressure on bulgaria coming to ireland and it also gives us serious relief and as keith wood used to say "shackles are off" and we can just play football. At the moment I think this game could be the most important one we will have played come the end of the qualifying(assuming we are looking at 2nd). The defining point if you will.
I think he can stay away for this qualification campaign.
It still seems like he isn't that bothered, that he could take it or leave it, I'd probably take him back purely because he is great form this season but he isn't the answer to our problems, I doubt Trap would play him in the middle, his best position would be behind the main striker but that isn't going to happen unless Keane gets injured so that only leaves the right wing which isn't his best position but he may do a slightly better job that McGeady. So overall he may improve the team slightly but would taking Ireland back now cause a rift in the squad? Trap needs to consider if the pro's of taking him back outweight the cons
From the Indo:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Nevertheless, the tentative message emitted from the Manchester City star through the medium of a phone call with a journalist who was in the company of his father provides some chink of light in this protracted issue.
"Yeah, yeah, but I'm just trying to keep my head down at the moment," the 22-year-old is reported to have said when asked if it was true that he was planning to return in the early part of 2009.
I still don't understand why his father would give a journalist his sons phone number (or hand him the phone) to ring while he was standing beside him but the quote from Stephen is pretty much exactly the same as his father so they've obviously been speaking about a return in the new year.
well i get you but if doesn't come back in early 2009 AND we have blown it, then surely the main thing to be gained by an autumn return would be some face-saving on his part, i.e. that he wasn't trying to hop on the world cup bandwagon, knowing we weren't going to qualify anyway? it'd almost be the more noble thing to do. but the noblest thing for all would be a massive helping of pride to swallow and a plan to re-shape our midfield to accomodate him if does indeed return in early '09.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
We need him for the very next game - feck the optics of face saving. No matter when he'd return he'd have to expect some degree of stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by ken foree
We've a stronger squad with Ireland included - lets just get him back to the fold and move on.
We need every player with an eye for a goal we can get at the moment.
yes yes and yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
why should that make a bit of difference??? If he wants to come back now and he gives his all for us then greatQuote:
Originally Posted by holidaysong
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Originally Posted by holidaysong
And they didn't kill off 2 grannies to do it.
Exactly & Ciaran should know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Sorry to quote myself but I thought in the context of the above comment, I thought this article in today's Guardian is interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...onathan-wilson
“a side playing 4-4-2, with the wingers pushed high and one of the centre-forwards dropping deep, is effectively playing a 4-2-3-1. When Manchester United beat Barcelona in the 1991 Cup-Winners' Cup final, for instance, they had Bryan Robson and Paul Ince holding, with Lee Sharpe and Mike Phelan wide, and Brian McClair dropping off Mark Hughes. Everybody still referred to it as 4-4-2, but it was in effect a 4-2-3-1.”
This is what I was saying about Trap’s system. He has realised we were like a turnstile in the middle of the pitch so his preference was for 2 defensive midfielders in front of our back 4, 2 out-and-out wide men (Duff & McGeady if fit), with Keane playing off Kevin Doyle.
The question then is where would you accommodate Andy Reid or Stephen Ireland if they were picked or available and we stuck with this system. I personally think that either could play the classic “10” or Totti role, i.e., behind a main striker, or either could play the wide right role with freedom to come inside.
Personally I think Trap is going the right way about covering up our weaknesses and maximising our strengths, though I'd continue to query the personnel choices made at times, especially in the choice of midfielders since Steven Reid's injury.
"Jack Charlton, the former Ireland manager, suggested recently that Ireland should “say sorry and come back or bugger off”. Ireland is nonplussed. “When he says, ‘You can bugger off’, that is what I have done, so what does he mean?” he said.
“He said, ‘Come back and play or don’t’ but I haven’t come back, so what’s he on about? So much has gone on behind closed doors that I feel it’s almost too difficult for me to go back"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5372363.ece
''So much has gone on behind closed doors that I feel it’s almost too difficult for me to go back, but I’ve come out a stronger and better person so it’s not something that worries me now.”
sounds to me like hes made his mind up, and that hes coming back.
To be honest i wouldve read that the exact opposite and that he isnt coming back. But in light of his dad's comments you may be right.Quote:
Originally Posted by richieos
If it doesnt come back, hes gonna be asked the question in every interview he does for years to come.
sounds like to me he is telling serious porkies again. The fella is a serial liar.
He needs to come back and we need him. What is the deal with all this drama? Its irritating. Its so needless. Also every time some 90 year old ex manager or pundit in Ireland or England wakes up from whatever ditch they were in and says something negative it makes things worse. He shouldnt even respond. Just come back and let your game do the talking, Steve. The man is only 22 years old, right? People make mistakes. Just come back and stop letting it fester, in my opinion, and it will be the best answer for all concerned. Jeez.
Has been absolutely sensational in the 1st half against Hull. 4-0 up with ireland with 3 assists
Then let him do 2 simple things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
- state publicly he is now making himself available for selection. None of this 'dont know if the lads/fans will welcome me back or I am not sure of the time is right' crap. Just say 'I am available for selection for the next game against Georgia in February'. Then it is down to Trapp.
- state publicly ' What I did in Sept. 2007 was wrong, I apologise to my team mates and to the fans'. End of. None of this 'I was young/I was going through a difficult time' crap. Never mind trying to offer excuses for the inexcuseable.
If he wants to come back and play for Ireland, and is man enough to admit unconditionally he was wrong, then so be it. Lets all get on with it.
My belief is that he doesn't really want to play for us and he still does not believe what he did was wrong.
This discussion is only being carried on because Ireland is playing well for his club. If this was John O'Shea or Paul McShane for example, most people would be taking the attitude 'Fu*k him'.
No player is bigger than a team. End of.
All this great form doesnt really make any difference. We cant pick someone who will just walk out in the run up to a big match, or if the team is playing badly. And he WILL do that if he is brought back. Time to forget him and move on.
He played well today. Big win for them. Would be nice to see him and Keane playing together while both were hot like today. Wonder if it will happen?
Was at the Man City game, he absolutely ran the show. Perfect through balls. He'd do a great job if he played like that for Ireland. No doubting his ability but Ireland shouldn't go begging for him to come back, I still think he should apologise, that won't happen though.
A goal and 3 assists...jesus.
yeah probably not, seeing as he already apologised...Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
Well sure the poll is pointless so:rolleyes:.Quote:
Originally Posted by musicinmouth
I mean an apology to the fans, afaik he never did. He disrespected his country and doesn't seem too bothered about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Ireland
Was nearly a goal and 5 assists incredibly. Robinho and SWP both missed one on one chances with the keeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I saw his games recently and have to say he’s becoming the real deal: his passing, vision, touch, speed, stamina and football intelligence are absolute top class.
His football brain is outstanding. At one stage yesterday he played a pass back to right full. The right full wasn't under pressure but played the first time pass back to Ireland who was under pressure. Ireland wouldn't have expected to receive the ball back so quickly but he had already picked out his next pass and played the first time pass forward to the right winger. All in a couple of seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
"I am also sorry for causing Manchester City any embarrassment and apologise to the supporters of both Manchester City and Ireland for misleading them and the media.
"I love playing for my country and am grateful for the understanding Mr Staunton and the FAI have shown to me since I told them the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musicinmouth
Very touching but not very believeable, and as much as it would be great to have SI playing for us, I honestly believe he is likely to walk out again (if he ever does come back) and cause another Saipan type divide and do serious damage to our chances at a later date.