LoI in Europe 2018

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UEFA are reportedly set to introduce a new 32-team competition from 2021 to run alongside the Champions League and Europa League.

According to the plans outlined in German publication Bild, the Champions League will remain in its current structure, while the Europa League will condense.

The group stages of Europe's second-tier competition currently includes 48 teams, but will apparently be reduced to 32 teams.

Sides from smaller nations will allegedly instead compete in the new tournament, which is reportedly set to be shown largely on online platforms.

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They mooted this idea a few years ago. Seems to be back on the agenda again.

If UEFA reduce the Europa League to 32, it should also exclude Champions League 3rd placed teams parachuting in at the knockout stage.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Dudelange get AC Milan, Real Betis and Olympiakos.

Hell of an incentive for Irish clubs. Though you would imagine the worst group performance record is under threat

The two Red Bulls will meet too.

Bohs' draw is Tuesday I think

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Crazy stuff. How big is the stadium they play in ?

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Originally Posted by legendz

They mooted this idea a few years ago. Seems to be back on the agenda again.

If UEFA reduce the Europa League to 32, it should also exclude Champions League 3rd placed teams parachuting in at the knockout stage.

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Hard to view this as a positive. It's just another way to keep little clubs ghettoised in their corner. The Champions League keeps them away from the big boys, and now they'll also be kept away from the mid-ranking and wannabe big clubs in the Europa League with this new format. Probably be thrown a few extra quid for it to keep participants happy, whilst the real riches continue to go towards the larger clubs.

Hard to feel positive about the broad direction European club football continues to move in. It continues to be about pandering to the big clubs and using relatively smaller sums of money to buy the quiet acquiescence of the small frogs whilst the water is gently boiled around them.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Crazy stuff. How big is the stadium they play in ?

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LoI size.

They played Cluj in the national stadium, presumably for licencing reasons

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Hard to view this as a positive. It's just another way to keep little clubs ghettoised in their corner. The Champions League keeps them away from the big boys, and now they'll also be kept away from the mid-ranking and wannabe big clubs in the Europa League with this new format. Probably be thrown a few extra quid for it to keep participants happy, whilst the real riches continue to go towards the larger clubs.

Hard to feel positive about the broad direction European club football continues to move in. It continues to be about pandering to the big clubs and using relatively smaller sums of money to buy the quiet acquiescence of the small frogs whilst the water is gently boiled around them.

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Unfortunately, it will only get worse. UEFA has to give in to the big clubs or they will break away. The money the big leagues generate is incredible and they do not need UEFA anymore.

Personally, I think it is only a matter of time till we see such a break away, especially with the amount of foreign owners and foreign fans. They dont need local support at all and dont care what happens on the pitch, just once they exhaust all ways to make money. I hate american sports with their Franchises, blackmailing cities, plastic support and lack of competition, but this is what top level Football is becoming.

Just like in real life, The rich get richer......

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Unfortunately, it will only get worse. UEFA has to give in to the big clubs or they will break away. The money the big leagues generate is incredible and they do not need UEFA anymore.

Personally, I think it is only a matter of time till we see such a break away, especially with the amount of foreign owners and foreign fans. They dont need local support at all and dont care what happens on the pitch, just once they exhaust all ways to make money. I hate american sports with their Franchises, blackmailing cities, plastic support and lack of competition, but this is what top level Football is becoming.

Just like in real life, The rich get richer......

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There is surely only so far they can push it as well before it becomes a switch off for supporters? Remember the second group stage in the Champions League? The noises suggest the top 4 leagues seem happy enough with having 4 direct spots each in the CL group stage.

Reducing the EL to 32 will be appeasing that next group in the pecking order. I would like to see the EL expanded to 64, without CL 3rd placed teams parachuting in. It's not really a surprise however when presented with that idea of 64 that UEFA are instead looking at splitting that into two separate competitions.

There has been a history of three European competitions. There might be an inevitable place for it.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Hard to view this as a positive. It's just another way to keep little clubs ghettoised in their corner. The Champions League keeps them away from the big boys, and now they'll also be kept away from the mid-ranking and wannabe big clubs in the Europa League with this new format. Probably be thrown a few extra quid for it to keep participants happy, whilst the real riches continue to go towards the larger clubs.

Hard to feel positive about the broad direction European club football continues to move in. It continues to be about pandering to the big clubs and using relatively smaller sums of money to buy the quiet acquiescence of the small frogs whilst the water is gently boiled around them.

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It has been going that way for some time. the Champions league structure was introduced to prevent a European super league but seems to be mutating towards that anyway. the number of places 'reserved' for the big 5 Leagues leave pretty meagre pickings for the rest. unfortunately this latest proposal appears to be marginalizing smaller nations even more. The current hope of an attractive draw (and big pay day) will almost be completed eradicated and the hovering up of resources by bigger leagues will ensure minimal 'gate crashers'.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

It has been going that way for some time. the Champions league structure was introduced to prevent a European super league but seems to be mutating towards that anyway. the number of places 'reserved' for the big 5 Leagues leave pretty meagre pickings for the rest. unfortunately this latest proposal appears to be marginalizing smaller nations even more. The current hope of an attractive draw (and big pay day) will almost be completed eradicated and the hovering up of resources by bigger leagues will ensure minimal 'gate crashers'.

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Big pay days do seem to be gone. Celtic and PSV Eindhoven were possibly the only big name teams in the Champions League Champions Route Qualifiers.

The Europa League playoffs main path did offer a few big names. Many so-called top teams had already been given direct access to the Europa League group stage as well.

UEFA have created groups for the Youth League draw. Potential opponents for Bohs:
Chelsea (ENG)
Anderlecht (BEL)
FC Admira (AUT)
Midtjylland (DEN)
Elfsborg (SWE)
Molde (NOR)
KR (ISL)

Midtjylland it is. Winners to play winners of Basel and Hamilton in the next round.

Bohs under 18's come from behind to beat Pats 2-1 in Ends Mc Guill cup final.Excellent performance, some real prospects.

Under 19's

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Bohs under 18's come from behind to beat Pats 2-1 in Ends Mc Guill cup final.Excellent performance, some real prospects.

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I thought the Rovers lads were saying that Shamrock Rovers were the top team in every underage group. Were they in this competition or did they get knocked out?

*rolls eyes*

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

I thought the Rovers lads were saying that Shamrock Rovers were the top team in every underage group. Were they in this competition or did they get knocked out?

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They said they were top of their leagues, which they are. Now cut this nonsense out. The vast majority of people on here are heartily sick of it.

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Originally Posted by Dalymountrower

Under 19's

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Great win for Bohs U 19s, following up last years league win. Great work by Craig Sexton and all involved. Often by necessity, given our financial woes Bohs have unearthed some real players in recent years through developing young players and recruiting good young players. Austerity is not all bad, but we call it necessity not a 'project' ;)

Hopefully they will do well and get a bit of support.
It strikes me that it must be a difficult job keeping the 19's motivated as the season comes to an end.
The better under 19's will have already transitioned into the first team squad so the bulk of the team are playing out time.
Argument for an under 21 league I suppose but is it just kicking the can down the road.

are any Bohs first-teamers likely to feature in the UEFA matches?

The rules permit three players born in 1999 and otherwise 2000 and younger. The Bohs website lists Magerusan and Hamilton who were born in 99 - nobody in 2000 (without scrolling through to the youth team pages)

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Hopefully they will do well and get a bit of support.
It strikes me that it must be a difficult job keeping the 19's motivated as the season comes to an end.
The better under 19's will have already transitioned into the first team squad so the bulk of the team are playing out time.
Argument for an under 21 league I suppose but is it just kicking the can down the road.

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Every level you add on is a huge cost to the strained LOI budgets. You add on coaching staff, transport costs, insurance, possible additional pitch rentals. I say this as a supporter of one of the clubs able to bear this cost.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Hopefully they will do well and get a bit of support.
It strikes me that it must be a difficult job keeping the 19's motivated as the season comes to an end.
The better under 19's will have already transitioned into the first team squad so the bulk of the team are playing out time.
Argument for an under 21 league I suppose but is it just kicking the can down the road.

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I think the generally held view is that anyone over 19 should be able to 'hack it' in the full set up or are never going to. The primary argument for under age is physical development etc but this should have evened out by 19/20. Probably a fair enough cut off age in most cases.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

I think the generally held view is that anyone over 19 should be able to 'hack it' in the full set up or are never going to. The primary argument for under age is physical development etc but this should have evened out by 19/20. Probably a fair enough cut off age in most cases.

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I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part , most people who aren't good enough at 19 wil never be good enough.
The problem though is there are plenty of examples of players who weren't good enough at 19 but came good in their early 20's and the cut off at 19 means we definitely lose some of this unfulfilled potential from the guys who just pack it in and get on with life.
That's why I reckon an under 21 /23 reserve league in which players from the first team who need game time can play as well as a reserve squad would make more sense than an under 13 league. redundant conversation though as the under 13's is a fact and there's no money for under 21s/ 23's.
Good luck to the Bohs 19's though I might even do you a favour and pop along to Dalyer for the match, when I'm there Bohs always win :)

Or the reason may that if a player isn't good enough at 19 for the England Leagues he's never going to be.
The whole idea of the under ages leagues is to get better developed children going over to England & Scotland because the present system isn't working any more.
I doubt its to improve the lot of the LOI clubs.

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

Or the reason may that if a player isn't good enough at 19 for the England Leagues he's never going to be.
The whole idea of the under ages leagues is to get better developed children going over to England & Scotland because the present system isn't working any more.
I doubt its to improve the lot of the LOI clubs.

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Coleman is all I'm going to say to that

Sammon. Dicker. Boyle. Horgan. Could go on...

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Originally Posted by disgruntled

Or the reason may that if a player isn't good enough at 19 for the England Leagues he's never going to be.
The whole idea of the under ages leagues is to get better developed children going over to England & Scotland because the present system isn't working any more.
I doubt its to improve the lot of the LOI clubs.

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Well - the penny is at least dropping in some other quarters that we can't rely on British clubs to develop our youth any more. Not since they started overlooking us to hoover up talent from around the world instead.

Football has changed, and we have to change with it.

More legibly:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45483586

Interesting bit: 'The European Leagues, the organisation that represents 32 leagues across Europe including the Premier League, Scottish Premiership and EFL, said it would fight the plans'.
My main question would be: is this now be a turn-off for potential investors thinking of putting cash into Irish clubs, with the potential for competing in the Europa League (or even the Champions League)? Would Dundalk's backers have been so keen if they thought the club would be further away from rubbing shoulders with Europe's more glamorous clubs?

In order to push this through UEFA will guarantee a few hundred grand more money for qualifying and probably a few hundred more for getting through a few rounds of the 3rd comp.

This will get the votes of 95% of the teams who would never see themselves as getting to a group stage.
Depending on the prize pool for getting to the group stages of this 3rd comp (even assuming there is one) it might offer mid level clubs an average payout bigger than the once in 10 years qualifying for the Europa group stages.
When UEFA spell out the money the clubs will make the decision.
Investors or boards might like a third tier if the average over several years looks better.
I guess we will see

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part , most people who aren't good enough at 19 wil never be good enough.
The problem though is there are plenty of examples of players who weren't good enough at 19 but came good in their early 20's and the cut off at 19 means we definitely lose some of this unfulfilled potential from the guys who just pack it in and get on with life.
That's why I reckon an under 21 /23 reserve league in which players from the first team who need game time can play as well as a reserve squad would make more sense than an under 13 league. redundant conversation though as the under 13's is a fact and there's no money for under 21s/ 23's.
Good luck to the Bohs 19's though I might even do you a favour and pop along to Dalyer for the match, when I'm there Bohs always win :)

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Sean Maguire too ?

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

In order to push this through UEFA will guarantee a few hundred grand more money for qualifying and probably a few hundred more for getting through a few rounds of the 3rd comp.

This will get the votes of 95% of the teams who would never see themselves as getting to a group stage.
Depending on the prize pool for getting to the group stages of this 3rd comp (even assuming there is one) it might offer mid level clubs an average payout bigger than the once in 10 years qualifying for the Europa group stages.
When UEFA spell out the money the clubs will make the decision.
Investors or boards might like a third tier if the average over several years looks better.
I guess we will see

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This is most likely what will happen.

UEFA will chuck some more money at the 3rd tier nations, most of whom will clap like seals at the prospect of more crumbs from Europe's footballing banquet. The big money will continue to be retained higher up the foodchain, so the gap between bigger and smaller nations/clubs will widen even further.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Sean Maguire too ?

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Most people , he would be an example of what I went on to say.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Most people , he would be an example of what I went on to say.

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To be fair, you can apply the 'most people' qualification to almost any age statement

most people who aren't good enough at 15/19/21/23 will never be good enough

Europa League 18/19;
17 - Directly qualified.
6 - NCQ3 (4) and NCQ4 (2), (Champions League League Route)
4 - CHQ4, (Champions League Champions Route)
8 - LCQ4, (Europa League Champions Route)
13 - Q4, (Europa League Cup Winners and League Route)

48 to 32 is a massive reduction. Some media reports have suggested leagues outside the top 25 will be excluded from the Europa League. It'll take more than that for the reduction required.

Can't be for 18/19 teams already competing for places.
19/20 maybe.

We could end up with a situation similar to rugby. The top competition is a perpetually closed shop. The secondary competition is almost a closed shop save for token qualification through the third tier competition, which is the only place a team can directly qualify from a smaller league.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

We could end up with a situation similar to rugby. The top competition is a perpetually closed shop. The secondary competition is almost a closed shop save for token qualification through the third tier competition, which is the only place a team can directly qualify from a smaller league.

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The Champions Cup isn't a closed shop. They have seen the need for a second tier and even a third as well.

I didn't agree with the power grab of the top 4 leagues for 16 automatic berths in the Champions League. A benefit of the restructure however was Cork for example being guaranteed a Europa League safety net.

If the next inevitable restructure is done in any small way properly, it should put an end to 3rd placed Champions League teams dropping into the Europa League knockout stage.

A proper 3rd tier European club competition should be exclusively for the best clubs outside of the top 25 leagues.

If UEFA are essentially talking about a Europa League II or whatever they'll call it, how are they likely to funnel league champions into these competitions?

If Celtic are in the top 25 leagues and are shocked by Dundalk. Will UEFA treat Celtic different for being from a higher league than Dundalk.

If league champions from outside the top 25 have to start off a round earlier, the best teams of that lot not making the Champions League or Europa League might question why are they being excluded from a competition in place of teams below them in their respective national leagues. Over to UEFA to sort out that conundrum.

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Originally Posted by legendz

The Champions Cup isn't a closed shop. They have seen the need for a second tier and even a third as well.

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I thought qualification was restricted to the English Premiership, French Top 14 and Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian participants in the Pro 16?

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

I thought qualification was restricted to the English Premiership, French Top 14 and Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian participants in the Pro 16?

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It built up around these leagues. Who's being excluded? Georgia, Romania, Germany and Russia could be proactive in forming their own Eastern Pro League and knock on the European door.

The likes of Scotland and the Netherlands are starting to feel excluded from the Champions League with the many more hurdles they have to jump over to get there.

You've a broader sense of closed shop which is fair enough. I'd see a Super League restricted to certain clubs as a closed shop.

Decent result for Bohs today in the Youth League; lost 2-1 in Denmark. Nothing to fear in the return leg in three weeks you'd imagine. Midtylland were 2-0 up after 75, but Bohs got one back shortly after Midtylland's second. Don't know did many head out?

Molde - who beat UCD on penalties last year - lost 10-1 to Chelsea.

In the Europa League, AEK Larnaka gave Bayer Leverkusen a heck of a game in Germany; took an early lead and were 2-1 down with two minutes to go, but eventually lost 4-2. But they - along with Cork's conquerors Rosenborg and, indirectly, Dudelange - are all on no points after two games.

FC Krasnodar, didn't pats knock them out a few years back? They beat Sevilla 2-1 tonight.

Wasn't that Krylya Sovetov? Currently 2nd from bottom in the Russian top flight. Krasnodar 2nd top.