Well it won't be Dundee Utd! The list for 2013 has them provisionally at 29, which is 4 places ahead of us. I'm sure that's not where they will end up but still shows the decline in Scottish footballQuote:
Originally Posted by KianD
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Well it won't be Dundee Utd! The list for 2013 has them provisionally at 29, which is 4 places ahead of us. I'm sure that's not where they will end up but still shows the decline in Scottish footballQuote:
Originally Posted by KianD
SPL generally have a club or two in group stages and pick up the points to compensate a team losing out early. It's the way they've built their coefficient. Some players 42 week contracts mightn't be enough if their clubs happen to pull off a group stage berth.
Yeah, if SPL clubs continue their current vein of form in Europe, the league's ranking could well slip down to 25th or lower in Europe by 2013: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/...crank2013.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by KianD
St. Pat's are actually ranked ahead of Hibs at present: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/...trank2012.html
Elsewhere, TV3 have confirmed they'll be broadcasting the Copenhagen-Rovers game live.
Not the Irish TV3, of course. I mean the Danish TV3.
The SPL's current position (16th in Europe) is more or less reliant on Rangers' having made their way to the UEFA Cup final in 2007-08. It was a rather exceptional performance, in the strictest meaning of the term, compared to performances of Scottish clubs since. Scottish clubs, including Rangers and Celtic, have done relatively very little for the SPL's co-efficient since that. If you were to take an average of Scottish clubs' performances in Europe for the last three years (1.875, 2.666 and 3.600) and included that value (2.714) as a predicted total for this year's tally (0.250 so far with three out of four teams still left in competition), as well as replacing the 2007-08 tally (10.250) with that average for the sake of gauging where current form would leave the SPL, it would leave it with a total co-efficient of 13.568 for five seasons. If we were to place that in last season's table covering five complete seasons of performances in European competition for every league in Europe, the SPL would be ranked in 29th position. If we were to slot it into this season's as-of-yet-incomplete table it would slot in at 28th with two Serbian teams (the Serbian league has a current co-efficient of 13.500 and is ranked 29th) still to play further fixtures. The League of Ireland is ranked 33rd with three out of four teams still to play further games. Admittedly, I've manipulated the figures a bit, but it provides an interesting perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
That bohs goal reminds me of many similar mistakes made under fenlons teams in Europe(only talking about europe in this paragraph..:)) in years gone by. Makes me wonder if its how he sets out his stall and what he instills in his players for the games....perhaps they are somewhat uptight and uneasy and unsure, therefore these simple mistakes are being made through panic and fear. One wonders also, given that they seemed to be the better team at home should they have done more away....again something that fenlon always seems to do, gives too much respect to the opposition away from home. I can understand this to an extent when you cant afford to go over and see them play before or dont get enough games on DVD or whatever, but surely over a half an astute manager can figure this stuff out.
Pats surely would feel confident with an away game first, if they got a score draw or even a score loss, getting them back to Dublin and doing what was required, assuming not a 3-1 or 4-1 loss...
The league has achieved the minimum I hoped for. 2 or 3 clubs in round 3 of one or both competitions and at least 1 club in the play-offs. Anything else from here will be a bonus. I'm hopeful one of Pat's or Sligo will make the play-offs. If both can, it'll be fantastic.
Great game at Richmond Park. Hard luck Bohs.
So where's it likely to be The RDS?Quote:
Pity we can't play the next round in Richmond
Can Sligo play the next game at the Showgorunds?
Great result for Pat's and good to see a decent performance from Bohs too. Hopefully the positivity will continue in the next round.Quote:
Originally Posted by punkrocket
Pat's are using Tallaght going by Pete Mahon's interview on the radio this morning.
Delighted for Pats, hard luck to Bohs, pity they didn't get the win they deserved by all accounts given they won't be in Europe for a while, would've been a nice way to sign out. Still at least they got something for the co-efficient.
As for the rest of the clubs, Pats and Sligo are more than capable of getting positive results at home, Pats have shown this time and again in Europe, whereas Sligo by the sounds of it are suited to playing in Europe with the type of game they've developed. I wouldn't be as pessimistic as others, I think they both have a great chance more so now they are away first.
Rovers are up against it, Copenhagen are as serious a Non-star team as they could have got. They'll need to work hard over there first. Here's hoping!
Where will Pats play L'vov? Will be looking to bring the young fella to his first match.
Edit just saw PI's post - Tallaght, nice one.
Out of interest what is the failing in Richmond that is preventing it from hosting 3rd round games and on? Is there that much of a difference between it and the Showgrounds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
SDCC have offered St Pats the use of their stadium so that's being negotiated at moment
I think there is an uncertainty there from both sides to be fair. I don't think anyone is really versed on Ukranian football bar what they see from the bigger teams in the CL/latter stages Europa league. IT could be another Scotland or it might not be. Either way a 5-0 win against Glentoran is still very comfortable, pre-season or not.
Are Rovers allow to sub-lease, how exactly does this work? I mean if they charge a one-off fee do the council say we want some of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever
Council get all of it. As they do from Setanta Cup final and underage games.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Rovers themselves pay a fortune for rent there
Really? Thats sh1te, but i suppose they envisaged that, the council i mean on providing the lease, smart bit of business for once from a council.
I gather though any maintenance work etc(i dont mean grass cutting or lining the pitch) is carried out and paid for by the Council?
Yeah. I think the stadium website says something like "owned for and operated by SDCC"
They have a fair bit of stuff there (they even turfed Rovers out a couple of years ago to get ready for the Real madrid friendly)
Interview with Mahon here: http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/art...game-tallaght/Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Tallaght, Thomond Park and Lansdowne were aired as possible ideas for an acceptable venue. According to Mahon, the RDS wasn't suitable, although he wasn't sure why exactly. I think they're going with Tallaght. Probably for the best.
Capacity is certainly one factor, although why the Showgrounds could be granted an exception but Richmond Park not, I'm not sure. And surely the RDS would have the requisite capacity as well. There are other factors such as medical and media facilities to be taken into account also, if memory serves me right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
I think the RDS was out due to the Horseshow
Wasn't floodlights a major problem? Weren't strong enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Karpaty 18:30 St Patrick's (7.30 pm Irish time)
Referee: Martin Strömbergsson (SWE) – Stadium: Ukrayina Stadion, Lviv (UKR)
Vorskla 19:00 Sligo (8pm Irish time)
Referee: Gediminas Mažeika (LTU) – Stadium: Vorskla, Poltava (UKR)
Irish clubs are having a good bit of luck having the first leg away.
Tallaght is a better fit. They'd fill the ground but not the RDS. Good night for Ireland, sad for Bohs, but it goes to show how much easier it is for Irish teams to progress thanks to the collapse of the Iron Curtain. Normally a win against a Maltese/Finnish/Cypriot/Icelandic side would mean a tie against some mammoth side and an exit. At least now clubs can win a couple of rounds.
With all their impressive runs in Europe, you'd think they would have sorted out a few lights at this stage with appropriate wattage ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think there is exits/seating/terraces/facilities(media/medical etc) all these sorta things to consider too, there is a website Dodge or someone put up before that listed the different rounds and required infrastructure.
The thing with sligo from what i remember reading, was that to get an exemption they had to increase seating, pitch size had to be increased, but i think the more important thing was actually getting the exemption from UEFA and the amount of time it took to get it. Maybe there just isn't time for St Pats(and make any appropriate changes/planning)?
Those times are wrong. its 7.30pm locla time, which is 5.30pm Irish timeQuote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Glentoran had quite a few players out due to work commitments. Ciarán Martyn didn't travel for that reason, for example. Possibly some were even still on holiday. That's fairly common for competing Irish League sides. Fair enough, that's the reality of the Irish League game and they'll say they're in their "pre-season" - as if European competition doesn't count - but it's distinctly amateurish. This (somewhat amusing) interview with Lisburn Distillery manager Jimmy Brown in 2009 provides an insight into what one could only describe as a rather shambolic and disorganised approach for the club's game against Zestafoni of Georgia that year: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/nort...nd/8129118.stmQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Even the merits of participation itself were questioned. Failure was inevitable with such an ill-prepared, pessimistic and defeatist approach.Quote:
Lisburn Distillery will be without a string of key players as when they face Georgian side FC Zestafoni in the Europa League on Thursday.
Striker Glenn Ferguson, just signed from Linfield, and goalkeeper Philip Matthews are on holidays.
Peter McCann, Mark Patton and Neal Gawley are also away.
"It does not help but we are going to give it our best shot. We do not want to let the Irish League down," said new Distillery manager Jimmy Brown.
"It is difficult for a part-time team against full-timers, and we are just back to training.
If you listen to the Mahon interview I posted above, it'll demonstrate the contrasting attitude and mentality with which League of Ireland clubs approach these ties. They're not merely exotic side-shows or exercises in keeping scorelines down. They're taken very seriously and Mahon mentions a few players in the St. Pat's squad having to cancel provisionally-planned holidays. Merely taking part is not tolerated as acceptable. Individual players not taking part at all is simply out of the question.
Yeah, I believe that's another criteria UEFA take into account. I'm sure it's in the competition rules and regulations. I'll have a look in a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Many Pats fans heading over?
Might see yee in Kiev.
You know, I know several lads involved at GAA clubs that don't book their holidays around the master fixtures list, so that they don't clash, some do and if they do they are re-imbursed by the club generally, or the flights are changed and they get paid for those new flights. I gather the clubs would do something similar, but surely these lads are aware of this when booking which again shows a slight amateur approach to things or maybe an approach ah well if we get there ill be happy to have to change things. Still its a far better approach than IL sides.
Mahon sounded pessimistic in all his other interviews that i heard/read.
It definitely brings focus and attention to the league when they progress, and i think they realise that too.
Well the lads have one weekend in the summer off in the league. next weekend. They booked the holidays kowing they'd be cancelled if we won through 2 rounds in europe. Absolutely no problem with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Here are the Regulations of the Europa League 2011/12: http://kassiesa.net/uefafiles/2011-12-uefa-el-rules.pdf
The section relating to stadiums and facilities is in article 13 of part VIII on page 18.
There are other sections on stadium clocks, giant screens and retractable roofs.Quote:
VIII Stadiums and Match Organisation
Article 13
Stadium categories
13.01 Unless stipulated otherwise in these regulations, matches in the competition must be played in a stadium which meets the structural criteria of the following categories as defined in the UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations (2010 edition):
a) category 2 for the first and second qualifying rounds;
b) category 3 for the third qualifying round and play-offs;
c) category 4 from the group stage to the semi-finals;
The final must be played in a stadium which meets the structural criteria as defined in the staging agreement.
Exceptions to a structural criterion
13.02 The UEFA administration may grant an exception to a specific structural criterion for the stadium category in question in cases of particular hardship and upon reasoned request, for instance owing to the current national legislation or if the fulfilment of all the required criteria would force a club to play its home matches on the territory of another association. An exception can be granted for one or more matches in the competition or for the whole duration of the competition. Such decisions are final.
Stadium certificate and safety requirements
13.03 Each association on whose territory matches in the competition will be played is responsible for:
a) inspecting every stadium concerned and issuing stadium certificates, which have to be forwarded to the UEFA administration, confirming that the stadiums meet the structural criteria of the required stadium category;
b) confirming to the UEFA administration that the stadiums, including their facilities (emergency lighting system, first aid facilities, type of protection against intrusion by spectators into the playing area, etc.), have been thoroughly inspected by the competent public authorities and meet all the safety requirements laid down by the applicable national law.
13.04 The UEFA administration accepts or rejects the stadiums on the basis of the above certificate and confirmation. Such decisions are final.
...
Pitch conditions
13.06 The home club must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the pitch is in the best possible condition for play. If the climatic conditions so require, facilities such as pitch heating must be provided, to ensure that the field of play can be made available in a suitable condition on any match date. If the home club does not implement the appropriate measures and, as a consequence, the match cannot take place, the home club bears all the costs of the visiting team (travel, board and lodging expenses).
13.07 If deemed necessary by the referee or a UEFA match officer, the home club may be requested to reduce the height of the grass for the match and training sessions.
...
Floodlights
13.12 Qualifying matches may be played in daylight or under floodlights. From the group stage onwards, matches must be played under floodlights. The light average must correspond to minimum horizontal and vertical illuminance levels of 1,400 lux towards for the main camera(s) and 1,000 lux towards areas of secondary interest.
13.13 Clubs must ensure that floodlighting installations are maintained and provide UEFA with a valid lighting certificate issued within the previous 12 months. UEFA may conduct an independent assessment of lighting levels in stadiums and will notify the clubs in good time of the results of such assessments and of any corrections to be made.
The UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations outline the distinctions in stadium category more specifically: http://www.fai.ie/PDF/UEFAStadiumInf...ations2010.PDF
The main differences are set out here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_st...een_categories
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...umcriteria.png
I also see clubs have to pay UEFA a fee of €200 in order to compete. It's such a measly amount, the idea of the likes of Barcelona or Real Madrid sending UEFA off a cheque in the post for €200 amuses me.
"13.12 Qualifying matches may be played in daylight or under floodlights. From the group stage onwards, matches must be played under floodlights. The light average must correspond to minimum horizontal and vertical illuminance levels of 1,400 lux towards for the main camera(s) and 1,000 lux towards areas of secondary interest.
13.13 Clubs must ensure that floodlighting installations are maintained and provide UEFA with a valid lighting certificate issued within the previous 12 months. UEFA may conduct an independent assessment of lighting levels in stadiums and will notify the clubs in good time of the results of such assessments and of any corrections to be made.
"
Interesting, in the height of summer in Ireland, or for example sligo, up until at least early September if a game started at 7 or 7.15 there is more than enough light. BUt im aware that UEFA have to be across the board here...
Not a chance, by early September the Sun is setting before 8:30Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
It might be setting but its still very bright by 9/9.15 in the West of Ireland. Anyway that might be a pretty pointless discussion. :)
What suspensions will Pat's have for Karpaty Lvov?
Bayley and Kavanagh I think.
I'm gonna have a butcher's at these on Sunday:
Vorskla v Metallurg Donetsk 3pm GMT Sunday... http://livetv.ru/en/eventinfo/80086_vorskla_metalurh_d/
Shaktar Donetsk v Karpaty Lvov - 5pm GMT ...http://livetv.ru/en/eventinfo/80087_...ar_dn_karpaty/
For Shams, Copenhagen v Odense: http://livetv.ru/en/eventinfo/80656_kobenhavn_odense/ (Tomorrow 18.00 GMT)
Yep, Bradley and Kavanagh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
The Ukrainians are not in Pre-Season. Their league has already kicked off:Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Vorskla Play 2 Won 1 Drew 0 Lost 1 Position 7th
Karpathy Play 2 Won 0 Drew1 Lost 1 Position 14th out of 16.
Bradley, that's the one. I always confuse my former Rovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lilywhites
Both booked late on last night. Bradley's was for time wasting. Kavanagh got booked in the last minute, not sure what for. Could be costly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I was on about Glentoran....actually i suppose they aren't even in pre-season!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fester