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Was Henry really that critical of Ronnie in 2006? It's a long time ago but my recollection is that I thought he was trying to say was that there are some very hyped up stars on that pitch but the real star for him was the relatively unheralded Henrik Larsson. I thought all he was saying was that Larsson deserves the tag of greatness despite having played at a lesser level of football. It wasn't a put down for Ronaldinho or Eto'o, rather a bigging up of Larsson. No?
I thought Henry had a few Christian Dailly moments in the post match interviews.
I do like a bit of Gallic passion :)
That was some game.
TOWK was praising Dailly's outburst recently :)
Last season a very disappointed Vincent Kompany - a class act in my opinion - was interviewed after they lost at home to Bayern. He said quite strongly that no way were Bayern the best team they had played recently and that made losing really tough. Was he being disrespectful to Bayern? Or just saying it straight?
The business end? Baloney. Henry has done plenty in serious games. Cantona's European/international stats and honours aren't even remotely comparable with Henry's. Cantona did very little in Europe for United; France weren't much of a force at all in international, or even European, football whilst he played for them. You knock Cantona's lack of European and international influence, which is fair enough, but if you're going to do that and talk about judging player impact, at least be fair and credit Henry for his impact on those very same stages where Cantona failed to excel. Cantona never even played at a World Cup. He played in one Euros during which France failed to win a game and he scored not a solitary goal, yet you're placing Henry's international record on the same pedestal? As you say, France became a force in international football directly after Cantona retired. Whose emergence did that coincide with? Henry helped, to a very significant degree, France reach the heights that Cantona couldn't. 1998 onward was France's most successful spell in the country's footballing history and Henry was vital to that. One of Arsenal's most successful periods in their club history also just so happened to coincide with Henry's rise.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Some more Henry facts: France's top-scorer in the 1998 World Cup; the country's top scorer again in Euro 2000, including a crucial goal in the semi-final against Portugal; voted "man of the match" in two games en route to the final and again in the final itself of Euro 2000; his contribution to France's 2003 Confederations Cup triumph was pivotal (in the absence of Zidane and Vieira) with three "man of the match" performances out of five games and scoring the golden goal to win the final; he was the Confederations Cup top scorer overall with four goals and also won the Golden Ball, being recognised as the tournament's outstanding player; he scored two goals in four games at Euro 2004; he was impressive again at the 2006 World Cup, scoring three goals in total, including one to knock out Brazil in the quarter-finals. You have an incredible knack for disparaging some seriously impressive records.
Having a shining moment in a final on the CV makes a world class player?Quote:
As for Henry, his performances gradually got less influential as club and country progressed further in Intl. and European competition. Unlike Eto'o, Inzaghi and Sheva, he has never had a shining moment in a European or Intl. final.
What are they exactly?Quote:
The likes of Francesco Totti haven't accumulated the same accolades for politically motivated reasons.
After the WC in 2010 my mate, a big Leinster rugby fan, told me Messi couldn't be considered a great player because he didn't deliver at a World Cup. I said neither has Brian O'Driscoll.
Henry did have a shocker in Paris in 2006, but he was clearly one of the best players of that decade, certainly in English football. But while he was an Arsenal legend he'll never be held in the same esteem as Zidane or Ronaldinho who were the defining figures of the late 90s - 2006 years. Then Messi and Ronaldo took over.
Comparing Henry negatively to Shevchenko or Inzaghi is somewhat harsh though. All three were super players in different ways, the common factor being goals. I think Henry was hampered by being at a team that was only sporadically competitive at the European top table. He'd have more claim to God like status had he been at a team that challenged for and won the CL. I think he was good enough to have been in most of the CL winning teams during his heyday.
He was talking out of his arse because Bayern gave them an awful tanking that night and City were lucky to lose 1-3. Research shows me that up until that game City had only played Newcastle, Cardiff, Hull, Stoke, Man Utd (hammered them 4-1), Villa and Wigan. Which of those teams could he possibly have rated higher than Bayern? Unless he meant in recent years but I think the only other team to give them such a scalding was Dortmund the season before... and that somehow finished 1-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't know. Maybe it was the Barcelona defeat? I'm confused Ted.
here's the post match interview in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYOXk7EAya8Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
says he didn't see Ronaldinho, mentions that Larsson changed the game
It's half and half, putting down Ronaldinho and praising Larsson.
That would make more sense and I could see why he would be frustrated seeing as he was responsible for the major turning point in the game. Poor Demichelis, as usual, was the fall guy though. Kompany seems to be one of those guys that can make mistake after mistake and be exempt from any lingering criticism. If you've got a reputation for getting up early, you can stay in bed all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I like him as well though :)
Whats does it all mean for Robbie Keane? Is the inference that since Henry failed to score a hattrick in every major final he played in that makes Robbie Keane MLS record worthless and so he should be put out to pastured? Or put in front of a firing squad and his fortune divided between Wes Hoolahan and Shane Long...
either way it was hardly a disgrace. My interpretation then, and still probably is, that he was put on the spot, obviously disappointed and in heat of the moment, and used to put down of Ronaldinho to highlight the real star, Larsson. He just didn't say it in a measured way.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I'm surprised his "I'm not a woman" jibe didn't attract more criticism!
id choose Shane Long.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJR
Isn't it time Robbie was put out to pasture and replaced with a bright young buck like Kyle Naughton or Richard Stearman?
Yeah, or even Harry Keane at Spurs!
The only direct comparison to Cantona I drew with Henry is that neither are in the same mould as Sheva, Eto'o and Inzaghi et al., which I think is fair enough (not many are). What matches did those goals come in in 1998? It's a law of diminishing returns. Great performances gradually declining as each tournament/European competition reaches the business end; which is what I said all along. Fair enough he's had a few great moments but not at the same consistency as the players I was comparing him too. It's/was even more noticable at club level. I distinctly remember Henry being poor enough in that Brazil game too aside from his goal.
If I said Henry was crap then I would agree wholeheartedly with you but I merely said his performances at the business end were not as influential as Shevchenko at Dynamo Kiev and Milan, who was surrounded by poor players with Ukraine and led them to several Intl. competitions, Eto'o at Barca and even to the present, and Inzaghi at Milan and with Italy.
TOWK.... even you must realise you're spouting selective nonsense.
Why even bring the completely irrelevant Cantona into it then? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
What have the players you mentioned done at the "business end" of international competitions? Besides Inzaghi, very little to absolutely nothing. You're being exceptionally (and bizarrely) selective. Why does Shevchenko get credit for his international performances outside of the "business end" but Henry not? Can you outline the great moments of the three players you contrast from Henry?Quote:
What matches did those goals come in in 1998? It's a law of diminishing returns. Great performances gradually declining as each tournament/European competition reaches the business end; which is what I said all along. Fair enough he's had a few great moments but not at the same consistency as the players I was comparing him too. It's/was even more noticable at club level. I distinctly remember Henry being poor enough in that Brazil game too aside from his goal.
Can you also explain what you meant when you said Totti had/has been ignored by the prize-givers for political reasons? I'm just interested in hearing your theory. Who in the global and European footballing establishment would be politically-motivated against Totti, a player with a traditional European powerhouse? I'm not so sure he has been ignored anyway; hasn't he been the recipient of plenty of individual recognition and awards?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Totti#Individual
Shevchenko mised a sitter in the last minute of ET against Liverpool in the CL Final in Istanbul in 2005, though it was an utterly extraordinary save by Dudek in fairness.
He then went on to bottle his penalty. I'd say that's the business end of a major competition :)
I'd say both Shevchenko and Henry were great strikers of their generation. So too was Inzaghi, yet all three were very different types of player and great for different reasons. I don't think it's necessary to say that one doesn't fit in the others' company. Of course only Henry cheated against Ireland.
Cantona is an odd one. It's quite feasible that without Cantona the United dominance would never even have started. A modern day Man United great, definitely. A contemporary great in the overall European scheme of things? Highly debatable and highly subjective.
I think it's equally selective to bring up games Henry was poor yet happened to score a goal in, a competition like the Confederations Cup and laud goals tallied against teams like Togo too but that's just me. You would swear I called the player crap! Inzaghi and Eto'o's final/SF/QF contributions are superior in my opinion; Shevchenko too - again surrounded by inferior players during his Dynamo Kiev days and Ukraine career.
"Yet he has never received quite the same recognition abroad. In 2006-07, when he scored 26 goals to win the European Golden Shoe, Totti finished 10th in the Ballon d’Or voting.
If even the correspondents of Gazzetta, a Milan-based newspaper, could see the truth, then why not observers from abroad? Perhaps it is because of Roma’s lack of success in Europe. Totti, and Roma, have never gone past the last eight of the Champions League. On the two occasions they reached that stage, in 2007 and 2008, they lost to Manchester United by a combined score of 11-3."
Henry was surrounded by better players and played in a better team but was his contribution in finals/SF/QF's better than Totti? Totti - who racked up as many domestic goals as Henry despite playing in half-a-dozen different positions. Totti who was a giant during competitions like Euro 2000 and WC 2006.
So now Totti's enters the equation. Is anyone here doubting Totti's quality? Unfortunately I didn't have a vote in the Ballon D'Or. I don't think Danny or DeLorean or anyone else did either.
Inzaghi did eff all but poach goals, so so what if Henery didn't play well yet scored?
Jeepers, you get really neurotic about things and start arguments when none is needed.