Robbie Keane

On the basis of part of TOWK's argument the only player we used in Euro 2012 who should still be playing for Ireland is Keith Andrews. I also think that to think that a guy who has only ever shown the ultimate commitment to playing in green would say he'd walk away, I.e., turn his back on playing international football, as soon as he's not picked is plain daft and bordering on belligerent at this stage. It's also belligerent to ignore just how comprehensively we were overrun in Poland to argue that Keane never looked like scoring. Would a 25 year old Keane have played any better?

Keane is only a year older than Ibrahimovic so I still don't think age is a critical factor just yet. The only thing past its sell by date is TWOK's line of argument.

Everything else is accepted by everyone I think. Keane should continue to be a major part of our immediate future but not a certain starter, and we should be more flexible in formation and tactics.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

On the basis of part of TOWK's argument the only player we used in Euro 2012 who should still be playing for Ireland is Keith Andrews. I also think that to think that a guy who has only ever shown the ultimate commitment to playing in green would say he'd walk away, I.e., turn his back on playing international football, as soon as he's not picked is plain daft and bordering on belligerent at this stage. It's also belligerent to ignore just how comprehensively we were overrun in Poland to argue that Keane never looked like scoring. Would a 25 year old Keane have played any better?

Keane is only a year older than Ibrahimovic so I still don't think age is a critical factor just yet. The only thing past its sell by date is TWOK's line of argument.

Everything else is accepted by everyone I think. Keane should continue to be a major part of our immediate future but not a certain starter, and we should be more flexible in formation and tactics.

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What you said in the first paragraph wasn't that outlandish. Of who was playing in Poland, who should genuinely be a part of O'Neill's thinking going forward? Given, Ward, St Ledger (sorry Doc), Whelan, Andrews, Duff and Doyle should arguably not be considered. That leaves Keane, McGeady, Dunne and O'Shea. Of the other players that got playing time; Cox, Walters, Green and Long, at least 2 of them arguably aren't up to this level.

I'm not basing my opinion of Keane on Euro 2012. I am basing it on the last several qualification campaigns as well...

Ibrahimovic is a better player, playing for one of the top 6 teams in the world, a CL regular and has led Sweden to multiple tournament qualifications. Some players can go in their mid to late 30's (Giggs, Zanetti, Totti), some can't. Neither here nor there. Opinion just based on what I see.

And I understand I touched a nerve with my interpretation of Robbie Keane's comments. Apparently others have been guilty of the same interpretation.
http://talksport.com/sports-news/foo...ional-football
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-26895402.html
http://www.joe.ie/football/euro-2012...by-trapattoni/

Last paragraph. What I said. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as what geysir said, I would find the stats that correspond with Robbie Keane's club career over the last half-dozen years more relevant than World Cup 2002. It's called context. The proof is in the pudding. His goals make him a valuable member of the squad like Dunne and O'Shea, not some deity that can't be criticised. Various other factors point to the possible benefits of other younger options, rotation and flexibility in other matches.

Of the Irish players you mention above, most are in positions where players are emerging that have overtaken them.

Those other links about his "walking away" add nothing. There was a lot of fuss about what he said at the time, and mischief in the way it was reported. I think it's pretty obvious what he means but sadly he's not a poet laureate. If you want context, look at how loyal and committed he has always been. He's not the type of guy who would walk away in a huff if not picked. He was saying he'd walk away from the scene, as if just accepting it has come to an end.

And of course Ibrahimovic is a better player, nobody disputes that. I was just giving just one example of a player in the same age bracket as Keane to show that writing a guy off just down to age is silly. I'm not sure that's what you're saying though, but you did hint at it on earlier posts.

Your last two sentences above are pretty much accepted by everyone. I tried to summarise where your argument actually makes sense in two earlier posts above and you should have the good grace to stop digging yourself into a hole. I quite frankly couldn't care less if O'Neill picks Keane or not. I'm not even sure I'd pick him if it was my choice. The only things that bother me are the stupid nitpicking about his record and the pointless comparisons to Klose and Shevchenko. Neither of them is eligible for Ireland.

For what it's worth, I personally don't think Keane's age is that critical. He still looks lively to me and still has a fox in the box instinct, an instinct others in our squad don't have. I think we might just eek out the upcoming campaign out of him. It's not really relevant whether he is worse than he was, it's whether he's good enough now and next year. That's just opinion that I don't think stats shed any light on.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Those other links about his "walking away" add nothing. There was a lot of fuss about what he said at the time, and mischief in the way it was reported. I think it's pretty obvious what he means but sadly he's not a poet laureate. If you want context, look at how loyal and committed he has always been. He's not the type of guy who would walk away in a huff if not picked. He was saying he'd walk away from the scene, as if just accepting it has come to an end.

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I think the following quote from the above Independent article makes that clear:

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Originally Posted by Robbie Keane

But the thought of never putting on a green jersey again was quite difficult for me to come around to. Even now, I'm dreading that day. I'll keeping playing on while I'm fit and healthy and as long as the manager picks me.

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The only message I can take from that is that Robbie will always be dedicated to playing for us. Of course, he doesn't select the team; his selection is ultimately dependent on the manager wanting him, as he points out. When the manager no longer requires his services, he'll quietly accept that his day has come.

It would be malicious to try and suggest what Robbie is saying is that he'll storm out in a huff and refuse to play for us ever again if the manager drops him for a game. Neither his words nor his actions over the years would indicate he's potential walk-out material. They would entirely suggest the opposite, in fact. I suspect the headlines from the pieces above were part of the anti-Trap media wave; attempts to make out that even our committed captain would have been prepared to walk out on/fall out with Trap.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

As far as what geysir said, I would find the stats that correspond with Robbie Keane's club career over the last half-dozen years more relevant than World Cup 2002. It's called context. The proof is in the pudding. His goals make him a valuable member of the squad like Dunne and O'Shea, not some deity that can't be criticised. Various other factors point to the possible benefits of other younger options, rotation and flexibility in other matches.

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Let's do a quick recall, you made a statement that 85 to 90% of Robbie's international goals were against 4th 5th and 6th seeds.
Then you proceed to deliberately ignore the year 1999, Play Offs and the World Cup Finals, meanwhile bizarrely regarding as an explanation, that Robbie's club record being more relevant to his international goal scoring stats than the goals he scored at the World Cup Finals.
The only nerve that you irritate is the subterfuge alert nerves.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Let's do a quick recall, you made a statement that 85 to 90% of Robbie's international goals were against 4th 5th and 6th seeds.
Then you proceed to deliberately ignore the year 1999, Play Offs and the World Cup Finals, meanwhile bizarrely regarding as an explanation, that Robbie's club record being more relevant to his international goal scoring stats than the goals he scored at the World Cup Finals.
The only nerve that you irritate is the subterfuge alert nerves.

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No subterfuge at all, geysir. The trick is to pay attention.

These are some of the first comments I left on Shane Long's thread, before the discussion was moved here.

"Keane used to be a goalscoring threat against big nations. His goal against Sweden was his first goal from open play against a decent team since the Playoff in Paris."

And

"http://greenscene.me/2011/06/robbie-...ational-goals/

There is a list of his International goals.

Since the World Cup in 2002, the only teams of note that he has scored (from open play) against are Italy in Bari, France in Paris and Sweden in Dublin."

And my point about Klose, Shevchenko and Ibrahimovic is not a direct comparison to Keane or simply that they have scored lots of goals but overall performances and how/much their goals and performances against a certain standard of team contributed to qualification to tournaments and only Klose can say he ever played with an amazing pool of players. Germany didn't always have players like Ozil, Gotze, Reus and Schurrle all over the pitch.

Diminishing Keane's scoring record only works if anyone else had any scoring record at all. Long's doesn't stand up if it's examined in the same context as Keane's and, regardless, there's a past year of missed sitters.

No one needs to look at anything in much detail, Keane still puts all the competition in the shade in terms of goal threat. That might say more about our striking options than Keane but hey ho. I love Keane but I'd love it even more if someone put him under a bit of pressure, because we surely need attacking options.

I think a big issue here is that many of us haven't accepted that players can play longer than ever before at a high standard. We've seen some outfield players play until 40 in the Premier League, and that trend is only going to continue as players take their diet and fitness more seriously.

MLS is derided by many but where teams can oftentimes lack technique, there is no such drop off when it comes to the sports science and the fitness side of the game -- in fact I would argue North America is more advanced in some ways than the UK in that regard.

Obviously there's no way to access Robbie's fitness information but it wouldn't surprise me if his endurance and strength have increased since moving to LA -- I certainly doubt they will have dropped off at all.

I'm not saying age is irrelevant, but it seems to me many have been looking to drop Robbie based on his age more than any other factor I can see, and that attitude needs to change.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Diminishing Keane's scoring record only works if anyone else had any scoring record at all. Long's doesn't stand up if it's examined in the same context as Keane's and, regardless, there's a past year of missed sitters.

No one needs to look at anything in much detail, Keane still puts all the competition in the shade in terms of goal threat. That might say more about our striking options than Keane but hey ho. I love Keane but I'd love it even more if someone put him under a bit of pressure, because we surely need attacking options.

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And another tonight

Bbc says he ballooned a header over the bar, and a few "might have scoreds" too.

We should acknowledge that about 90% of Shane's certified misses are against better teams, only about 10% of his misses are against lower seeded teams.

According to the Paul O'Shea school of algorithms, Long is bound to score sooner or later, which will provide conclusive proof that he's the prolific goalscorer we all knew he was and highlights the folly of continuing with past-it Keane.

Robbie is doing the pro-coaching courses. According to leaked evidence, he was running the show at coaching school, taking over the floor in the classroom with everybody else held in rapt attention and also on the sidelines in the practice games, telling the instructor what was happening and what to do.
That could spell trouble for the tactically inept Mon and Roy, as a typically cocky, know-it-all Robbie will just brush them aside when it comes down to elucidating the finer points of our game plan.
I expect Robbie will sort it all out so that he remains the centrepiece, the star man, the striker supreme.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Bbc says he ballooned a header over the bar, and a few "might have scoreds" too.

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Those stats climb ever higher.

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Originally Posted by geysir

We should acknowledge that about 90% of Shane's certified misses are against better teams, only about 10% of his misses are against lower seeded teams.

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You gotta commend him for such consistency.

Incidentally Robbie and Shane are tied for goals in December and January for their clubs.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Robbie is doing the pro-coaching courses. According to leaked evidence, he was running the show at coaching school, taking over the floor in the classroom with everybody else held in rapt attention and also on the sidelines in the practice games, telling the instructor what was happening and what to do.
That could spell trouble for the tactically inept Mon and Roy, as a typically cocky, know-it-all Robbie will just brush them aside when it comes down to elucidating the finer points of our game plan.
I expect Robbie will sort it all out so that he remains the centrepiece, the star man, the striker supreme.

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Anyone know where they take place? I know IT Carlow runs Degree courses with the FAI & IRFU.

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Originally Posted by WexCar

Anyone know where they take place? I know IT Carlow runs Degree courses with the FAI & IRFU.

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Carlow and Dublin according to the article linked earlier

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Nah, 'n' anyways is Dublin.

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When I was at running club at Paddington Rec in London last night there was an 11 a side game of footy on the AstroTurf inside the track. I think the team in the all red kit were all Dubs. I heard so many Dublinisms in Dublin accents that if I had closed my eyes I'd have sworn I was playing up in Marlay Park again.

I wonder who they were. Maybe Ardee Bhoy knows? Or Positive Paul?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ly-257352.html

Keane will be ready

Keane scored twice in a friendly against the Galaxy B team in a preseason friendly. Caught the keeper out with this shot from distance: http://www.lagalaxy.com/video/2014/0...galaxy-ii-goal

Robbie's 'Senior International Player of the Year' award acceptance speech from LA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r3jOUuq1LE

Also features Bruce Arena looking like a waxwork as well as other laughs, so worth watching 'til the end.