Well done Shels. Decent point there. Hacken did knockout Anderlecht and Cluj in qualifying. Which is in stark contrast to their league form.
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Well done Shels. Decent point there. Hacken did knockout Anderlecht and Cluj in qualifying. Which is in stark contrast to their league form.
Florentina only scraped past Celje 4-3 in the quarterfinals last year. They’re a very good side.
Pity Rovers couldn't keep it to 3-1, a bit more of a respectable scoreline. Defensive errors, and two goals conceded in the last minutes of each half. Classic LOI in Europe stuff. Bradley can't be pleased.
Was at the game in Tallaght. Disappointing turn-out of Shels fans considering it was such a landmark occasion. Entertaining match, and Shels had their moments and generally played well, but Hacken looked the more accomplished side and probably should have won. Palace will be well-qualified for the next stage by the time they arrive in Dublin in December, so will most likely field a mostly youth/reserve side. Not sure what effect this will have on the wide-eyed, open-mouthed, Premier League-worshipping barstoolers. May not be a full house.
Not surprised Rovers made the mistakes they did, the signs were there in recent league games. If they really want to kick on they need to upgrade the backline, not sure that's possible from within the league though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
Only saw the second half. Though Shels were very poor but apparently were ok in the firstQuote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
Shels go a point ahead of Rovers in the league in October........im getting flashbacks
Surprised to hear Bradley, if he can be taken at face value, rested players for a semi final against First Division minnows. With the financial incentives on offer in Europe, thought all focus would be on that first.
Id say it was part saving face and part serious. The focus is on the cup, securing the league, and the games we can compete in in Europe. Games against Sparta Prague are not the measure of any LoI team. I hope we all get to that point but we are miles away. Only a 20k stadium but my jaysus that was a proper football crowd and team. They are thinking about maybe winning the conference, we are happy to be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Agree with this. I was flicking between the shels and rovers games on Thursday and it was almost staggering that the 2 games were in the same competition. Shels in a half empty Tallaght with any small atmosphere muffled by the wind and rain, standard on the pitch was poor with less than a handful of shots on target from both teams combined, a tiny away crowd and a very flat game between teams in 6th and 10th in their leagues. Then you switch to the game in Prague and it was chalk and cheese, a proper packed out stadium and atmosphere, some very good football being played, big away crowd too, it was like watching a champions league game by comparison. That of course would flip when shels play away to AZ alkmaar and rovers are at home to say Hamrun or whatever, but it is a bit of a mad competition when you compare the size of half the clubs in it versus the other halfQuote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Yeah it's very strange. Huge gulf in class between some of the teams. It's been amazing for leagues like ours but the next step would be qualifying for the Europa groups again, or even the CL groups, rather than actually competing for the Conference trophy, which is a bit mad. Great craic getting to play some of these teams tho. Czechs were a bit arrogant but generally decent to chat to and there was a bit of back and forth that gave it all the feeling of a proper occasion. As you say, Hamrun at home will be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
It'll be interesting to see how far Sparta go. They were good, even with a few players rested for their derby, but I don't think we played as well as we can either. Team selection played a part but in reality they just had us shook.
They'll never make it out of the gap of ThermopylaeQuote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Mind the gap as they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
And even if they should, they at least won't have to face Ajax. Though a derby game against Hamrun could be interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
To be honest, most European football is like that. Ireland is fairly unique to not have a big gap in support and stadia between its top sides and everyone else. Contrast with Portugal, Scotland, Belgium, Austria, Croatia, Hungary, Norway etc etc etc. You could go to a Sparta game in Prague with a crowd of nearly 20,000 and then the next day go to watch another top tier team like Jablonec or karvina in front of 2,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Year Contract
I've been to top tier games in Budapest where the crowd at one was over 10,000 (Ferencvaros) and then the other only had a few hundred (MTK Budapest - and that included quite a few stag parties and foreign groundhoppers).
BTW - Only 5 clubs have won the Czech league in the 30+yrs since it was introduced in the early 90s (and one of those has won it only once).
I think 2YC is talking more about the relative strengths of the teams, rather than their support base? Hope I'm not putting words in your mouth there 2YC. You basically knew in advance that Chelsea were going to win the whole thing last season, assuming they took it reasonably seriously, which I think they did. It's a bit more even this season, maybe, with Palace, Fiorentina, and Strasbourg all reasonably strong in the odds. Can't remember who was second in the odds last year, possibly Fiorentina?Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
I suppose it was always a bit like that with the old CL and EL group formats but you now have absolute giants competing against relative minnows more regularly. Great fun though and it's been fantastic for our league.
Yeah you’re more or less spot on. I did mention the support base tbf to EYG but I was more so referring to everything about the clubs - standard of teams, stadiums, fanbase etc. As you say, Chelsea being in the Conference last year when it also contained the likes of Larne and TNS is a perfect example of the massive massive gulf in clubs in the same European competition. Granted there’s a bit of that in the Champions League under the new format, but the gap between say Real Madrid and Qarabag, although massive in itself, is nothing compared to the gap between Chelsea and TNS or whoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Isn't that just the story of most of modern European football though? That you know who will probably win the French, German, Spanish, Scottish, Hungarian, Welsh, NI etc etc leagues before the season even starts? And bar the odd turn up for the books, the expectation is usually right.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
The LOI can probably be added to that list currently too.
And a bit!Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Random example: the 30 teams in the 1967/68 European Cup varied eg between
Man Utd/Real Madrid/Benfica/Celtic/Juventus/Anderlecht
versus
Glentoran/Dundalk/Valur/Skeid/Kuopion PS/Jeunesse Esch/Hvidovre IF/Hibernians Malta.
(If you need to figure out some of the names on the second list, they're all here: https://www.worldfootball.net/player...gue-1967-1968/)
I'm not talking about the domestic leagues, just the CL, El and ECL. In the past the weaker clubs would be gone by the time group stage football came around. You'd rarely have been able to call the winner of the CL without much doubt, whereas calling the ECL was fairly season. The new league phase throws us in with the giants in the tournament proper and the parachute format where the giants can fall out of the CL into the ECL is new....I mean it's all new. Or maybe I'm talking pure ****e. It's great either way. As much as I don't want to see certain clubs get into the league phases, I wouldn't begrudge the fans having the experience at the end of the day. Well maybe some of them....Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
This is going to be some race for 4th, not sure who I fancy to nick it, sneaky feeling Shels will. Pats seem to be running out of ideas and that spanking v Cork C won't help their confidence. Drogs in the mix too, mind you be some kick in stomach if they slip to 5th, Rovers win cup and they miss out on Europe for a second time in one season!
Banter - I still think Cork C can rise to the occasion and qualify themselves, Rovers could be tired after all their group games, but they (Rovers) will be odds on to win final for sure.
EDIT - Bohs are by now way confirmed yet either, would think only Derry a shoe in for Europe so far.
I see UEFA are allowing Barcelona and Milan to play matches outside their respective countries. Next seasons opener Bohs v Rover's in Berlin or New York
UEFA arenlt allowing it though, They have no grounds on whicb they can stop it. So they're begrudingly just saying it's ok in an attempt to retain some relevance/link to the decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkicker
This is going to become a regular thing, despite UEFA's nonesense claims of no precedent.
Or the Brandywell? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkicker
UEFA has no way of stopping it, at least under their current regulations as they stand. However, they might be able to bring in a new rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
For in the past when they've tried bringing in rules opposing eg a Super League, or player transfer restrictions, they've come up against the EU, who've weighed in in support of such proposals.
But this case could be different, because the EU Commissioner for intergenerational fairness, youth, culture and sport [sic], Glenn Micallef, recently spoke out against the Villarreal/Barca/Miami game, describing it as a "betrayal" of local fans:
“My position is clear: European competitions should be played in Europe,” Maltese national Micallef said, speaking exclusively with The Athletic at the European Commission’s offices in Barcelona.
“Playing domestic league matches outside of Europe is a betrayal of the local communities and fans to whom these clubs owe most of their successes. To our citizens, it is more than just a competition, it’s about community, friendship, family.”
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/668...onboarded=true
I'm not so sure - "regular" maybe in the sense of one or two games a season (only), but not widespread. For tbh, the only Spanish teams who could guarantee to draw a decent crowd and TV/Media interest overseas are Barca, Real Madrid and (possibly) Atletico Madrid. And Real are on the record as being completely opposed to the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
No-one outside their own home town/league is going to be in the least interested in overseas matches between eg Elche, Levante, Osasuna, Getafe or Oviedo etc, while Barca (Atletico M?) can't play all their away games outside Spain, either - esp if they're having to compensate (i.e. bribe) the "home" club and their fans for trips to USA/Far East/Gulf each time as well.
And i suspect that much the same applies to Italy/Serie A, where only Juve and AC Milan have huge overseas profile and support to match that of Barca/Real/Bayern/PSG/Man U/Liverpool etc.
Similarly, fan-owned clubs in Germany will certainly NEVER permit such an idea. While in England, even if some PL clubs were considering paying rent and travel expenses etc to stage games away from the large, hugely expensive home stadia which they're all building*, they got such a kicking over the ESL breakaway, plus the earlier proposed "Game 39", that I really can't see it happening there. Never mind that the new Government Regulator for football would undoubtedly move to prevent it.
So my own prediction is one or two overseas games each season for La Liga/Serie A until the novelty wears off and Barca and Juve have to admit that it will never be the massive Lottery win they need to catch them up with the Premier League, both finance and playing wise.
And that's if the EU doesn't weigh in to prevent it.
* - Why pay to rent overseas stadia, training facilities, charter flights and hotels etc to play eg in New York or LA, when you're already paying off the mortgage on your own super duper big stadium in London or Manchester. Which is before having to refund all the ST holders, and face the wrath of the fans generally, plus having your players return jet-lagged and knackered to play their next PL or Europeamn game a few days later?
The EU can complain - and rightly so in my view. But what can they do about an event happening out-with their jurisdiction? I suspect the answer is nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
'Regular' is not the same as 'frequent'.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
But as mentioned - how?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I guess you may ask all of this to the NFL teams who are now regularly (bit not frequently) playing fixtures in European cities like Dublin, London and Munich. It's obviously worth the hassle.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
As a minor aside re logistics - I suspect the European teams would just leave a local fixer/contractor/agent to sort things like accommodation, flights etc for them. They're big commercial organisations with plenty of staff to do it for themselves otherwise anyway. The same clubs go around the world every off season playing games like the Harlem Globetrotters as it is already. I don't think it's credible to suggest that they'd find it a pain to do all that for a competitive fixtures, when they already do it for pointless friendlies and 'tournaments' every Summer.
Not sure, but Barcelona/Spain and Milan/Italy are both within their jurisdiction and they've not been shy in interfering in Football before.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
NFL and Football are two completely different sports, with different requirements and set-ups, so cannot be compared.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
For one thing, Football has long been a ("the"?) world sport, with domestic leagues in just about every country, while also maintaining international competition, both club and NT etc. Whereas NFL is pretty much solely USA, meaning that if they are to expand, they have to pursue what you might call "missionary work" with games overseas. The logical extension of this, if it ever happens, will be NFL Franchises abroad (London? Munich?). No-one is seriously suggesting that Barca or Milan etc are planning on something similar abroad.
While the set-up is also completely different. Football already has a severely crowded calendar, without the need to be playing "home" matches abroad. By contrast, the NFL schedule sees team playing just 17 regular season games each. This used to be 16 (8 x home, 8 x away), meaning the that having expanded, there was space in the new calendar for a few of these new games to be abroad i.e. extra, not instead of. In fact, the whole NFL season comprises just 272 games a season, with only 7 of those abroad. By contrast, the Premier League stages 380 domestic league games a season for instance, plus Cups, Europe etc.
Indeed amongst American team sports, NFL is very much an idiosyncratic outlier, since we don't see MLB, NBA or NHL following their example. Meaning that Football and NFL are not so much comparing Apples with Oranges as Aardvarks with Onions!
It's nothing to do with logistics, rather it's a question of finance and scheduling. Take Spurs for example. They've spent a billion quid on a new stadium, financed by a 25 year(?) mortgage. Every PL game they play, they take in £3m in matchday receipts alone. Why on earth would they forego that to play a game in NYC or LA etc, where they'd have to pay to hire a stadium, training facilities, hotels and flights etc, while leaving their players and staff exhausted and jet-lagged etc in mid-season, with WHL sitting empty all the while. And that's before they had to refund their 42k Season Ticket Holders 19th of the cost of their ST, plus put up with all their other fans furious at not getting to see the team play in their traditional home. (Same applies to all the other PL teams building or rebuilding huge new stadia i.e. most of them).Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Whereas Barca and Milan are only pursuing this idea out of (financial) desperation. That is, they're struggling to expand their own operation domestically, while the PL is disappearing over the horizon both financially and playing-wise, both home and abroad. Meaning that those clubs' only hope of catching up is to try somehow to exploit overseas media/TV/Sponsorship markets with experiments like this. But I wonder how much appetite there will continue to be in USA or Oz for such games once the novelty has worn off.
All of which is without having to face competition, in USA at least, from MLS, which is growing all the time.
But what can the EU actually do about limited companies which play sport holding events that are beyond their jurisdiction?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
So what are peoples thoughts for Thursdays games. Expect one team to get something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pateen
Not expecting to get anything. Celje are absolutely flying and we are in bad shape. If we were at full strength I think a draw or even win would be possible but I fear a hiding tbh. The fact that they won't underestimate us this time and will be out for revenge doesn't help.
Depends on who is fot or not. Pico and lee should start. Is honohan and grant fit??
But yeah i fear a hiding
Not expecting anything from Thursday and quite frankly don't care. This is all bonus territory - qualifying via the non-Champions route was our achievement this year. We have a League title to get over the line and then a double to secure. Way, way, way more important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Grant is out until Athens or the cup final apparently.
Josh might be ready as they were checking on him before Fridays game...but if he's not quite there I don't think they'll risk him with the league to wrap up.
Pico and Lee will make a huge difference but without wingbacks we are pretty limited. The backups sadly just aren't up to it anymore. Shame not to have Victor and Max recently to add a bit of width and pace. All sort of piled up on us at once, along with our strikers fading. A lot is riding on Burke these days.
As WaR says though, Europe is a complete bonus this season. 7 points is the most we would've hoped for and I'd be prioritizing the league and cup over scrapping for them at this point. A win or two for the prizemoney would be great.
Shels in Slovakia at 3:30 today in the Youth League, against Zilina
Not expecting much from the celje game on Thursday. Hopefully get some points and money towards the end of the campaign but as stated above the Double is the important thing this season for Rovers.
2-2 in the end - great result given they were 2-0 down after 25 minutes. Would give them real hope of progressionQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It was 2-1 the last checked so that is a great comeback.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Rovers at home and playing quite lower quality opposition than Sparta. I would have though they had a small chance, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Another European week gets underway tonight - Shels v Zilina tonight at 7:45; 2-2 from the first leg.
Then a tough tie tomorrow for Rovers of course, away to AEK Athens at 5:45, but Shels will be aiming to get something from Drita of Kosovo at home at 7:45. AEK beat Aberdeen 6-0 in the last round, while Drita have drawn their two games against Omonia Nicosia and KuPS Kuopio
Celje a very different animal this year to last. Signed a new team. And they look to have signed very well. Still think we had a chance but we'd have needed the first team fully fit. They probably wouldve still won.Quote:
Originally Posted by pateen
AEK I give us no hope against, despite them losing to Celje themselves.
0-0 in Tolka tonight - went to penalties, enough Shels lost 2-0
Sounds like a crap shoot-out, but over two legs against a Slovakian side it sounds decent enough