Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Your own words are right here. Formation, set pieces and style of play etc are all Barry and you doubt Kenny is selecting the team as well.
So...who is calling the shots?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Your own words are right here. Formation, set pieces and style of play etc are all Barry and you doubt Kenny is selecting the team as well.
So...who is calling the shots?
To be honest, i am very surprised that posters are giving this guy any air time at all. Ignoring all the contradictions and sloppy logic in his posts for a second, the guy has basically admitted that in his eyes there is nothing that Kenny can do right, he is damned if he does and damned if he don't. Often based on wild speculation/theories that are not grounded in anything real. Totally disingenuous. You can't engage/debate fairly with that type of poster.
No, I think Kenny is picking the team, giving team talks and so on. So Kenny is calling the shots in my view. Do you think different? You think Kenny changed formation and tactics off his own bat?Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
These questions need to be asked. Blindly following something based on an emotional attachment is not the way we should go. Let's not forget here, Kenny is the worst manager we've ever had. That's if we go on factual evidence. Criticism of Kenny is valid, some will just have to accept that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Is there a mute button or something to block posts from certain posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exgrad
To be fair giving answers and calling the shots are not one and the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
I think life's too short and campaigns too quick (especially a football players sporting Life), come and go that we can have a manager in charge for 4 years before he (potentially) gets us to a championship as his remit.
2022 is awful barren for us , things could considerably change for us in that time too.
Great start from Anthony Barry’s men.
If he's giving answers then he's being asked questions and those answers are being taken on board yes? That sounds like a managerial team working well together to me. Instead of Kenny getting credit for bringing in Barry and (if this is even true) adopting his ideas (imagine that, listening to the coach you hired to help you) the idea is that Barry is somehow running things despite Kenny standing in his way. Play the post, not the more reasonable version of it you might come up with yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
And I'm not sure on your other point but I think it probably highlights the divide between the more reasonable takes on here in terms of where we are and where we need to go. For me, we absolutely can take a longer term approach given we are working with 19 year olds who aren't featuring for their clubs in key positions and an average ability level right now of, what, lower English Championship? Maybe lower end of the English Premiership if you only count our defenders? Maybe that's where we will disagree? You would hold that we have enough quality to beat Serbia to 2nd place maybe? Mick couldn't get us into the top 2 in a group with Switzerland and Denmark and he was paid more than twice as much as Kenny so I'm not sure I'd agree that there is an obvious candidate ready to step in and turn us into a better side than Serbia with the talent we have available versus their pool which plays across Europes top leagues. And if not, then what's the harm in Kenny continuing to blood young players and working on formations/styles of play/set pieces etc under the watchful eye of Anthony Barry?
We're not battling it out with Serbia, we're battling it out with Luxembourg. Denmark got to the euro semi finals, Switzerland the quarter finals and we nearly qualified under McCarthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
If you're argument is that we can't get anything better than Kenny because of our lack of resources, you might want to look at the bench behind him. We should snap Barry up before he gets a big job as manager in England.
I think you are the one guilty of approaching the issue blindly and based on emotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
If you go back to my previous posts on the matter, i have supported critical questioning of performances and results under Kenny. Some results (and performances) have been hard to stomach. But I have also asked that people make a fair and reasonable assessment of SK with the challenges that presented to him, the lack of stability early on that was almost completely out of his hands and the young players that he has had to bring through.
It is more nuanced than Kenny class/Kenny sh!te.
Bottom line for me is that he has deserved a longer runway than others might have received and it appears as though patience might be the right approach with the coaching and playing teams that he has assembled now seemingly turning a corner. I am not blindly following anything, i have already set out what i believe were bottom line requirements to stay in the job beyond this campaign. Prior to Serbia i wanted 7 or 8 points. He is on 4. Failure to beat Luxembourg and the FAI has some a valid question to ask / decision to make. To you, nothing matters.
Now, who is the extremist between the two of us?
You're backing the worst manager we've ever had and calling those who dare question him as extremists and saying they should be ignored. You may need to do some self reflection.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I think you are being disingenuous and i am guilty of not heeding my own advice and engaging you.
"blindly following something based on emotion" is a pretty nice parallel to extremism, no?
There are those who will defend Kenny no matter what results are achieved. This has been proven. Criticising the manager overseeing this awful campaign is not extreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Watching the Kenny interview here, still an incoherent mess in front of the camera. Positive results havent had a positive effect on that.
Calling Kenny the worst manager we've ever had is a load of horse ****e. Absolute horse ****e.
From day one since Kenny took over, and remember we almost got to the Euro play off finals, he's been trying to play better football and bring in new players. We finished the other night with three teenagers on the pitch ffs.. what do you want, some ex pro from the Charlton era off looking for 30 yr old lads with an Irish granny. Or Robbie Keane?
Kenny will probably end up as one of those unlucky managers who ends up handing a cracking team to the next guy who comes in. But while he's there, back him. Mick Mc Carthys early games were muck too.. but he eventually moulded a team that should have gotten to a WC quarter final
Frankly I'm looking forward to being in Germany in 2024
And I'd be delighted if Kenny was there managing them
Oh give it a rest ffs. Valid criticism is one thing, but you’re being ridiculous. But don’t worry, no doubt we’ll lose to Portugal next month with Kenny back in charge after Anthony Barry’s two wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
But, but but ...is Anthony Barry not running things ? Ah, only when we win. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
There are those who will criticize Kenny no matter what results are achieved would be a more accurate reflection of things I think. Most of the posters on this forum have a fairly nuanced view of things that include positives and negatives with Kenny's approach so far that you consistently ignore in favor of straw man arguments about his "defenders" putting him up as some sort of tactical genius who will having us tiki takaing our way to trophies.
I think my point has been made looking at the posts above. There are some Kenny fanatics who won't accept a bad word said about their messiah. No matter how bad results are.
Click a user's name next to a post, select "view profile" and on the screen that opens, click "Add to ignore list" on the leftQuote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Tone it down, there's a line, and you're coming close to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I don't see a single Kenny fanatic in the above posts. You seem to invent them to go along with your straw man arguments. Nobody is even really defending Kenny a great deal. They are calling your posts out for their lack of clarity and overall negativity even in the face of improvement. The only fanatic, to be honest, seems to be you with your wild claims of Barry being responsible for anything good while the evil overlord Kenny stands in his way despite being the man who hired him to do the job he seems to be doing so well.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
I think the line would have been crossed by any other poster. This guy is just a WUM at this stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Horse manure. The real issue is your steadfast refusal to give any sort of credit at all, even after two wins. (And yes, I’m well aware of the level of opposition.)Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
OK, this is how I see it: Kenny is still fighting to save the job, but he is at least in the fight. We need to remember that this is still likely to be our worst qualifying campaign since 1972. Also, I want to note that in the Nations League, Callum Robinson played 47 minutes and Josh Cullen played 25 and I think we would have been better from the off had Kenny given them more time so that they could be better integrated into his system (admittedly I'm not sure about whether Robinson was injured/ill at the time but Cullen sat on the bench for at least a couple of games).
So there has been an improvement in performance and results, but is it enough? Going into the qualifiers for Euro 2024, we need to be confident that we will be reasonably comfortable against the 3Ms of teams: middling, mediocre and minnow - and also that we will be able to run with the big boys. Recent results have indicated we may be getting close to that but it's not certain - I think Kenny still needs a result against Portugal and a solid victory away to Luxembourg to cement his position, but I would be happy for him to lead us if he manages that.
Assuming his contract is renewed, he needs to hit the ground running in next year's friendlies and Nations League. In the friendlies, currently I would like to see him bring Smallbone, Obafemi, Scully and Elbouzedi into the mix (this may change over the coming months). The minimum goal for The Nations League should be finish in a position that is likely to get a home draw in the play-offs, as it's still quite possible we will need to use that route if we get a difficult draw in the main qualifiers
Robinson -Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
September Camp - 2 nations league games, comes off the bench for both
October Camp - starts in playoff vs Slovakia, misses 3rd and 4th NL games due to being close contact with Williams
November camp - missed 5th and 6th NL games due to Covid along with England friendly
March camp - starts vs Serbia and Lux. Comes on as sub in 3rd game vs Qatar.
June camp - missed 2 friendlies due to Achilles injury
September camp - missed Portugal due to Covid and told Kenny he could only play 30 mins vs Azerbaijan and Serbia due to ill effects from covid
October camp - started both games
-
So under Kenny, he’s missed 8 games due to injury/Covid/CC. 2 more he’s been unable to play more than 30 mins due to illness. Of the remaining 8 games, he’s started 5 and come off the bench for 3, one of which was a friendly and would have been his 3rd start in a week...
Small point but I find it interesting. It might also be a sign of a changing Ireland but some of Kenny's selections have (probably unintentionally) resulted in a very diverse side and squad.
Last night, there was one English born starter (Robinson). There were two lads with one or more Nigerian parents (Ogbene and Omobamidele). There were four Cork starters, one Meath, one Derry, one Kildare and three Dubs.
If Kenny can survive then the 2022 Nations League will be the true barometer of any progress as it'll line us up against peer nations. Dispatching poor opponents in a facile fashion is something we couldn't manage even a month ago so it's looks like some progress albeit the bare minimum. Hopefully the momentum can be carried into the Luxembourg game.
Just dipped into the last few pages of this thread out of curiosity. Guys, you've got a troll on here and you're feeding him. Never feed the troll!
Ah it was a slow day.
Don't worry about it, Stephen. We have it under control... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by patsdad
I'd give him the NL games next year, and see where we are at then. At the very best with the Nations League, we'll be in Pot 2 for the Euro seeding.. by winning the group and winning it well.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
16 teams in Group A will provide top 10 seeds, with worst 6 going into Pot 2.
Best 4 of the 16 teams in Group B, will go into Pot 2, with the 6 worst Group A teams
So win our Nations League group, we'll be in Pot 2 for the Euros.
Next ten teams in Group B, make up Pot 3. So unless we finish bottom of the NL group, we're heading for Pot 3, with worse case scenario, Pot 4.
But at that stage, it makes damn all difference to be honest. Unless you're in the top 2 pots, whether you're seeded 3,4,5 you'll end up with one really high level team, and possibly a second
So basically we can end up 2nd,3rd or fourth seeds for euro 2024
Fair enough - I knew he had missed some time due to COVID/Injury- didn't realise how muchQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Oh no no no... that would literally be the worst option - that's how we got in this mess to begin with - gave MONKEANO a two-year contract in January 2018 - O'Neill experimented with his system and gave caps to fringe players in the Nations League and got two draws and was given the boot with a huge payoff. Then Mick was brought in to perform magic with no time to bed in his own system, knowing he had one qualifying campaign - due to COVID didn't get to finish it off and got a big payoff (did give debuts to a number of young players in spite of his constraints)Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
So whatever the decision, make it by the end of the year and stick with it - either we're now moving significantly in the right direction so we should give Kenny a full second chance at qualifying or these last couple of results have just been a blip and we should give a new manager plenty time to prepare for the Euro 24 qualifiers
Not sure how serious the "Anthony Barry for manager" shouts are but I would counter it with a few points. Kenny brought him in. He knew his reputation and his position at a big club under a big tactical manager. He has been big enough to embrace what Barry has brought, even when results were jeopardized. Is Barry responsible for the players being happy and the spirit in the camp? There's clearly a framework in place which focuses on the tactical aspect but the culture and spirit appear to be bang on too. And what about the players, of all ages. I heard Shane Keegan say recently he was at an under 17 game with Kenny a few years back and that Kenny waxed lyrical about Omobamidele. I'm sure he has been watching Bazunu a while. I'm sure he has been watching McGrath a while too. And Ogbene. That is four which he has given chances to, the extent of which another manager might not have, particularly when another manager wouldn't know these guys as well.
Oh, but he isn't great with the media? But that is subjective. Tell me Bazunu and Omobamidele weren't great with the media post Serbia.
I have been a Kenny supporter but have tried to be pragmatic and the Lux and Azeri results are blots on the copybook. But I'm feeling that he has done so much positive stuff in terms of the framework that's in place and the players within it
Also, we are in a sensitive position with regards to our current playing group. We have some good young players that could go in a couple of different directions at club and international level. The defenders and keepers look good. But the forwards are in precarious situations. And there is a gap to be filled in terms of young midfielders. I trust him to bring the right midfielders through and continue managing the forwards. I don't know if I could say that same about another manager.
He still needs to beat Luxembourg....
If Jeff remains on form with cullen as the DM. We could be ok. The 3 at the back with Coleman and Doherty as wing backs has been great.
So with an attacking 3 of CR7, mcgrath. Idah. We start to look like a good outfit
Could we please please please stop with the CR7 business ? Hopefully he changes his shirt number for the next games !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I wouldn't go getting your hopes up on that one based on who our opponents will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD