Marc Wilson

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I was questioning Danny's original position that national allegiance lay at the heart of all these declarations and that any suggestion otherwise was an ignorant misrepresentation.

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Don't want to speak for Danny but my view would be if his original position appears a 'blanket statement', personally I'd see that as a response-in-kind - the NI media, managers (O'Neill and Worthington) and IFA have constantly labelled Gibson, McClean, Wilson et al as careerists. There is rarely any consideration of them actually wanting to play for their country.

And I take that line quite personally. Irrational it may be but if Northern born players are careerist glory hunters for moving south, what does that make Northern born fans?

Fair to say I'm a bit over-sensitive on issues of nationality (common problem north of the border). But ultimately it's been all too easy for the NI media in particular to marginalise legitimate national choice (a sensitive issue) in favour of negative character studies - Gibson (careerist), Wilson (opportunist), McClean (careerist, opportunist and sectarian).

Some of this sniping has been warranted (hi James) but all of it? And all of it to the total detriment of a simple truth ie these guys want to play ball for their country? No way.

So even if the pragmatism in switching north-to-south is evident, I'd suggest if anybody seems to be ignoring it's just because we're compelled to even the debate a tad.

*on-topic* Hope Wilson belts another 30 yarder in the top corner in Friday, probably our best chance of grabbing a goal...*on-topic*

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Don't want to speak for Danny but my view would be if his original position appears a 'blanket statement', personally I'd see that as a response-in-kind - the NI media, managers (O'Neill and Worthington) and IFA have constantly labelled Gibson, McClean, Wilson et al as careerists. There is rarely any consideration of them actually wanting to play for their country.

And I take that line quite personally. Irrational it may be but if Northern born players are careerist glory hunters for moving south, what does that make Northern born fans?

Fair to say I'm a bit over-sensitive on issues of nationality (common problem north of the border). But ultimately it's been all too easy for the NI media in particular to marginalise legitimate national choice (a sensitive issue) in favour of negative character studies - Gibson (careerist), Wilson (opportunist), McClean (careerist, opportunist and sectarian).

Some of this sniping has been warranted (hi James) but all of it? And all of it to the total detriment of a simple truth ie these guys want to play ball for their country? No way.

So if the pragmatism in switching north-to-south is apparent, I'd suggest it's from an impulse to even the debate a tad.

*on-topic* Hope Wilson belts another 30 yarder in the top corner in Friday, probably our best chance of grabbing a goal...*on-topic*

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I guess its ironic that they are willing to slate players such as Wilson and Gibson while players such as McGinn who have went on record as saying that they are Republic fans and have chosen to play for NI even though its not the team they identify with the most have never been accused of being careerist or opportunistic or had aspersions cast upon their decisions by the likes of the BelTel and Newsletter.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

*on-topic* Hope Wilson belts another 30 yarder in the top corner in Friday, probably our best chance of grabbing a goal...*on-topic*

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You mean his belter that was slightly off target before getting a beneficial deflection :)
No complaints if he manages another.
Off all our players, he has the best ability to stroke the ball around accurately across the pitch.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Thats a good point geysir, its a percentages game, its all about percentages in life too. There could be a percentage of it that goes that way, but I think the pressure, the situation and some amount of stress would it really make it worth it just for potential career-prospects? I mean its not like declaring for Brazil.

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Niall McGinn and Paddy McCourt declared for Not Brazil!

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Originally Posted by geysir

You mean his belter that was slightly off target before getting a beneficial deflection :)
No complaints if he manages another.
Off all our players, he has the best ability to stroke the ball around accurately across the pitch.

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He has the best ability to stroke balls off our players?

Matron!



I'm irrationally petrified for Friday. It's been eating me all week. I just can't visualise in a realistic sense, where a result will come from.

Though I'll take a rebound of Conor Sammon's ar5e in the dying minutes.

So is he...
;)

That was bad, the only solace is that it could have been worse, I could have been busted by Paul.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Don't want to speak for Danny but my view would be if his original position appears a 'blanket statement', personally I'd see that as a response-in-kind - the NI media, managers (O'Neill and Worthington) and IFA have constantly labelled Gibson, McClean, Wilson et al as careerists. There is rarely any consideration of them actually wanting to play for their country.

And I take that line quite personally. Irrational it may be but if Northern born players are careerist glory hunters for moving south, what does that make Northern born fans?

Fair to say I'm a bit over-sensitive on issues of nationality (common problem north of the border). But ultimately it's been all too easy for the NI media in particular to marginalise legitimate national choice (a sensitive issue) in favour of negative character studies - Gibson (careerist), Wilson (opportunist), McClean (careerist, opportunist and sectarian).

Some of this sniping has been warranted (hi James) but all of it? And all of it to the total detriment of a simple truth ie these guys want to play ball for their country? No way.

So even if the pragmatism in switching north-to-south is evident, I'd suggest if anybody seems to be ignoring it's just because we're compelled to even the debate a tad.

*on-topic* Hope Wilson belts another 30 yarder in the top corner in Friday, probably our best chance of grabbing a goal...*on-topic*

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Perhaps my faith in these players' words and their talk of national allegiance being a primary motivating factor, amongst possible others (maybe secondary or not so secondary; I admit it would be naive to neglect acknowledging the possibility of their existence) is coloured by a certain empathy I possess for their situation and an understanding of their thinking that I feel I share due to my own family's northern background and my formative upbringing in and around Derry. I've also had the luxury of an insight into Shane Duffy's thinking from his cousin, a mutual friend.

People can be cynical and speculate, but, as you allude to, SvD, I almost take personal insult as well when these players are smeared as careerists. When I feel driven to defend their declared motivations against perceived aspersions, I half feel like I'm defending friends, family or even the whole Ireland-supporting community in the north against a snide accusation of glory-hunting. I support Ireland because I'm Irish (that being the Irish national identity); just like so many throughout the north who identify similarly. I don't necessarily say that out of some sense of insecurity or over-sensitivity either; my own particular birthplace isn't under "cultural dispute", after all. It just grates with me that the Irish national identity of those north of the border is still so widely dismissed or sidelined as bogus or as some sort of gimmick, especially a decade and a half after it was accorded official recognition in the Good Friday Agreement.

Are footballers any less likely to have strong feelings about their nationality than anybody else? I think that's why I find the 'careerist' angle troubling - I just can't buy into the idea that a lot of footballers are out there calculating and making these perfectly rational business decisions. I'd say in particular for footballers, who'd tend to be from lower-income areas where the troubles are most vociferous, they are just making decisions based on where their heart lies. Of course there are others who do make calculated decisions for their careers - and maybe once they're living in England and making a bit of money they get a little more pragmatic - but I think sometimes it is only fair to just take people at face value.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Are footballers any less likely to have strong feelings about their nationality than anybody else? I think that's why I find the 'careerist' angle troubling - I just can't buy into the idea that a lot of footballers are out there calculating and making these perfectly rational business decisions. I'd say in particular for footballers, who'd tend to be from lower-income areas where the troubles are most vociferous, they are just making decisions based on where their heart lies. Of course there are others who do make calculated decisions for their careers - and maybe once they're living in England and making a bit of money they get a little more pragmatic - but I think sometimes it is only fair to just take people at face value.

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It all depends on the individual. Some would be calculating, many would go with their heart. What I hate as an argument is the one about commitment to the cause and that unless you are emotionally commited you won't play well. I can't ever remember a game when players didn't try try their best. Yes players have bad games, seem anonymous possibly, but actually not make much effort, can't say I have seen this.

Going back to my serious Sunday Lge days, one of our lads played for 'Bosnia' before they were an independent country. Somehow I don't think he was a 'careerist'...or a 'glory hunter'.
He just wanted to represent his identity.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Though I'll take a rebound of Conor Sammon's ar5e in the dying minutes.

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And....?

This thread has been way too sexy today. I blame geysir.

It's an ominous sign, there are occasions when the threat of doom looms large, the humankind under threat, turn towards procreation.
In WW2 England, the baby boom started in 1940.

Surely its just to do with the fact they were inside more and there was less to do, meaning more time on their hands etc.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Surely its just to do with the fact they were inside more and there was less to do, meaning more time on their hands etc.

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You still have a bit more to learn about women, Paul.

No TV's was always the explanation I was given in school.....

Video killed the radio star and TV killed the libido?

Im sure some people use the TV ;)

Much and all as I like Wilson, his crossing with his left foot was very poor last night. Some improvement needed there.

Ward would have been a much better attacking option than Wilson and probably no worse in defence, but he blew his chance in the away fixture.